Mag for dummies?

[Scarlet Shocker]

I kinda have an idea of what "Mag" is. I don't think it has much to do with red hats (or any other linux distro) but it seems to me it is about the "weight" of a power on an opponent.

 

My question is more about how you accumulate and stack it, how do you make it meaningful...

back in the day,we'd talk about Ghost Widow's 1000 mag on the LRSF... which basically ripped your proverbials off and there was no way you were getting out of that but that's not a thing these days it seems.

 

What I would love is a guide to "Mag" but I've searched for it but... maybe my search fu is weak

[Luminara]

Magnitude 1 - affects underlings (Rikti Monkeys)

Magnitude 2 - affects minions

Magnitude 3 - affects lieutenants

Magnitude 4 - affects bosses

 

Big bads need big Mags.  For example, a single-target Confuse in the hands of a dominator or controller, and properly slotted, can confuse GMs, like the Winter Lord.  EBs are usually no harder to control than bosses.  AVs are cheating dicks.

 

Magnitude is cumulative.  1 + 1 = 2.  2 + 1 = 3.  And so on.

 

Controls only stack by type.  Holds with Holds, Stuns with Stuns, yada yada yada.  A Hold won't stack with a Stun, a Stun won't stack with a Hold.  Same same to stack.

 

Duration is relevant, as is animation time.  If you use a Mag 2 control with a 12s duration and a 1.67s animation time, and a Mag 3 control with a 10s duration and 2.112s animation time, to control a boss, the Mag 2 control will drop approximately 9.8s after you use the Mag 3 control.

 

Stacking is easiest and most effective if two or more powers with controls are used, and presuming those two or more powers are not shit like 20% chance to X.  Dark Pit with Oppressive Gloom, for example, sparks joy.  Barrage plus Boxing, while both have small chances to Stun, does not spark joy.

 

Control powers can stack with themselves, if their recharge times are low enough and durations long enough.  Entangling Arrow, for instance, can be spammed and stacked with itself.

[macskull]

23 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

back in the day,we'd talk about Ghost Widow's 1000 mag on the LRSF

FWIW this is still a thing, but it's mag 100. It very much still exists, but teams these days have so much defense flying around you're not likely to get tagged with it - but if you do, you're at the mercy of your teammates for the 15 seconds or so it lasts since you'd need half a tray of breakfrees to get out of it.

[Championess]

10 minutes ago, macskull said:

FWIW this is still a thing, but it's mag 100. It very much still exists, but teams these days have so much defense flying around you're not likely to get tagged with it - but if you do, you're at the mercy of your teammates for the 15 seconds or so it lasts since you'd need half a tray of breakfrees to get out of it.

 

Yeah it's defense you're running that covers a lot of holes.  Having high defenses by way of things like Barriers kind of gives you quasi mez protection no matter the AT you're on since they need to hit you first to control you.

Edited 22 hours ago by Championess

[Scarlet Shocker]

So those "worthless" holds in control sets (looking at Poison and TA in particular) that do nothing but hold - actually with a Lockdown +2 mag suddenly seem pretty damned good in the round, amirite?

[macskull]

10 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

So those "worthless" holds in control sets (looking at Poison and TA in particular) that do nothing but hold - actually with a Lockdown +2 mag suddenly seem pretty damned good in the round, amirite?

Ehhh, on their own they’re not great unless you have stuff to stack them with, and they tend to have a shorter duration and longer recharge than control set holds.

[Psyonico]

3 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

So those "worthless" holds in control sets (looking at Poison and TA in particular) that do nothing but hold - actually with a Lockdown +2 mag suddenly seem pretty damned good in the round, amirite?

Both can stack with themselves as well as another power in the set.  Paralytic Poison can stack with Poison Trap and Ice Arrow stacks with EMP arrow.  Throw the lockdown proc in them also helps (though the duration of the proc is pretty short.

[MonteCarla]

8 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

So those "worthless" holds in control sets (looking at Poison and TA in particular) that do nothing but hold - actually with a Lockdown +2 mag suddenly seem pretty damned good in the round, amirite?

 

My TA/A Defender had the Lockdown and Devastation % chance to hold procs in Ice Arrow. It was probably overkill having both, but it meant I always held bosses in one shot.

[MoonSheep]

9 hours ago, Luminara said:

Magnitude 1 - affects underlings (Rikti Monkeys)

Magnitude 2 - affects minions

Magnitude 3 - affects lieutenants

Magnitude 4 - affects bosses

 

Big bads need big Mags.  For example, a single-target Confuse in the hands of a dominator or controller, and properly slotted, can confuse GMs, like the Winter Lord.  EBs are usually no harder to control than bosses.  AVs are cheating dicks.

 

dominators can stack enough confuse to mez most AVs even though Purple Triangles of Doom, takes about 40-50 seconds, sometimes worthwhile for tricky battles

[Snarky]

On my Corruptor I have a mag 2 fear cone.  the fear works good and the to hit debuff works great.  I also have a mag 2 PBAoE stun aura, which i stack with a mag 2 Targeted AoE stun.  this is very effective, for short while.  great for setting up a nuke for instance.  Fear Cone, Targeted AoE stun, get in, PBAoE stun starts, Tar Patch, Nuke.  

 

On Dark Armor Brutes many do not take the mag 2 fear aura and/or the mag 2 stun aura.  These do heavy lifting in stopping lots of attacks from annoying nobodies. Huge mistake. my two inf.

[Scarlet Shocker]

so...

 

I guess the next question is how to increase Mag on a specific power. Is it just procs or can it be boosted in other ways?

 

I guess there's no way to increase the duration of a power? (If there is I've been blissfully unaware of it)

[Luminara]

20 minutes ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

so...

 

I guess the next question is how to increase Mag on a specific power. Is it just procs or can it be boosted in other ways?

 

I guess there's no way to increase the duration of a power? (If there is I've been blissfully unaware of it)

 

Magnitude is locked.  A Mag 3 Hold can never be anything but a Mag 3 Hold.  Slotting for control only increases duration.

 

Procs are basically extra powers in fancy non-interactive wrappers.  They don't increase the magnitude of the power in which they're slotted, they stack another control.  Incarnate abilities which grant % Chance for X are procs.

 

Buffs and debuffs work in the other direction.  Duration is always locked, slotting always increase buff/debuff strength (proc functionality is identical).  Always felt that was a mistake, controls should've had variable mag and buffs/debuffs fixed strength, would've alleviated much of the power creep problem from teaming with buffers/debuffers and given controllers/dominators a firmer line of utility.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, MoonSheep said:

dominators can stack enough confuse to mez most AVs even though Purple Triangles of Doom, takes about 40-50 seconds, sometimes worthwhile for tricky battles

 

The general populace's misperception of Confuse is so annoying, because it's the strongest and most effective control in the game, and the easiest to stack due to its inherently long base duration.

 

"But mah ex-peas!"

[Auroxis]

17 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

Magnitude is locked.  A Mag 3 Hold can never be anything but a Mag 3 Hold.  Slotting for control only increases duration.

 

FYI this is no longer the case on a few powers since Page 2

 

Dark Armor's Cloak of Fear has half of its CC component enhance-able, and the magnitude gets increased rather than duration. So if you slot it for above 100%, the overall magnitude gets over 3, which is enough to CC bosses.

 

Psionic Armor's Aura of Insanity (as well as other AT variants) has almost all of its CC component enhance-able, and the magnitude gets increased rather than duration. So if you slot it with one mez D-Sync/HO, the overall magnitude gets over 3, which is enough to CC bosses.

[MTeague]

That said, Mind Control has a Mag 3 Non-Aggroing Confuse.  Slotted for Range and Duration, I can cast it, again and again, and again, on various targets until it kicks in, and then I have Free Hits on said target until it hits the floor. (provided I refresh the Confuse on cooldown).

 

Purple Triangles are still always going to feel intensely personal since Controller is my favorite archtype.

But [Shivan Shard]. Don't leave home without it. 

[MoonSheep]

1 hour ago, Luminara said:

The general populace's misperception of Confuse is so annoying, because it's the strongest and most effective control in the game, and the easiest to stack due to its inherently long base duration.

 

"But mah ex-peas!"

 

damn, do people still believe the xp component has a material impact?

 

confuse is also a great power when you’re in the lvl 40’s, go to PI or RWZ and confuse rikti guardians to get accelerate metabolism stacked 7-8 times and become a good. personal record is 13

[Yomo Kimyata]

14 hours ago, Luminara said:

Magnitude 1 - affects underlings (Rikti Monkeys)

Magnitude 2 - affects minions

Magnitude 3 - affects lieutenants

Magnitude 4 - affects bosses

 

I want to clarify this for a couple of reasons.  Magnitude is the strength of the mez, and in order for it to affect a mob it must be *higher* than that mob's mez protection level.  Since there are powers with fractional mags and stacking is possible, I think a more accurate tally would be:

 

Underlings are affected by mez mag> 0.0

Minions are affected by mez mag >1.0 

Lieutenants are affected by mez mag > 2.0

Bosses are affected by mez mag >3.0

Elite bosses are affected by mez mag > 6.0

AVs are affected by mez mag >3.0 (if purple triangles are down) or >50.0 (if purple triangles are up) and sleep and immobilize have lower limits. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

4 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

I guess there's no way to increase the duration of a power? (If there is I've been blissfully unaware of it)

 

That's what mez duration (like hold, confuse, etc.) enhancements are for.

 

Edited 7 hours ago by Yomo Kimyata

[Uun]

Domination (dominator inherent) doubles the magnitude of (almost) all control powers. So a ST mag 3 hold becomes a mag 6 hold, etc.

[Oklahoman]

I came here to talk about the Magisterium trial, but I see now I am in the wrong place. Much like when 8 ladies asked me out, then I realized I was in the wrong restroom.

[Championess]

16 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

So those "worthless" holds in control sets (looking at Poison and TA in particular) that do nothing but hold - actually with a Lockdown +2 mag suddenly seem pretty damned good in the round, amirite?

 

Speaking on the TA Ice Arrow hold it is very much worth it.  I slot mine with a 50+5 Acc and 5 dmg procs.  TA is a hell of a debuff set and some of those arrows debuff targets resistances to controls for more duration.  So even though TA's control duration may be low you're making everyone else's along with yours better.

Edited 6 hours ago by Championess

[Andreah]

I believe combat level difference between the caster and the target also plays a part.

[Snarky]

1 hour ago, Oklahoman said:

I came here to talk about the Magisterium trial, but I see now I am in the wrong place. Much like when 8 ladies asked me out, then I realized I was in the wrong restroom.

If it was Mag (Magisterium) for dummies you would still be in the wrong place. Unless… you were trying to figure out why we keep screwing up your clear instructions 😂

[Championess]

29 minutes ago, Andreah said:

I believe combat level difference between the caster and the target also plays a part.

 

Yes level difference matters.  Fighting 54s on my dominator in domination I know I'm getting 3+3 mag on say my aoe hold for instance.  That'll instantly hold everything boss level and lower.  Knowing that I'll be wary of any EBs since now it takes 2 holds to stop those ones.  

 

Then you have the enemy buffs that raise the mag bar even higher like the stacking vengeance you find on Nemesis or Shout of Command from the Cim's.  Good luck controlling anything when they have stacks of those active.  In the 4stars enemies get access to Leadership powers but their vengeance at least behaves like the player one so its not as harsh of an extra amount of mag you need to reach, typically one more application.  Then there's the special rules for confuses in 4stars where the mag bar you need to reach in critters is a good deal higher since as been said confuses have to be the best form of control.

 

So for critters you need to stack like controls to reach certain mag thresholds. 

 

AVs are different they have a high mag bar you need to reach and everyones controls no matter what it is stack to help reach this bar so long as it has a long enough duration to be active with the others.  Once you reach this bar the best active control currently on the AV takes precedence even though the showiest of control fx show out that's when you'll start to see ice blocks and soul storms.  But say you have a dominator using power boost and megalomaniac they'll be the one to have their control play out.  Once that plays out the AV becomes immune to control which you'll typically have defeated them after hopefully.

 

Lots of rules for controls and they can be a fun way to manipulate a fight when you know the workings.  You're getting a lot of good info here though, even from @MoonSheep.

[Uun]

17 hours ago, Scarlet Shocker said:

So those "worthless" holds in control sets (looking at Poison and TA in particular) that do nothing but hold - actually with a Lockdown +2 mag suddenly seem pretty damned good in the round, amirite?

Ice Arrow doesn't do "nothing but hold". It's a massive debuff (defender values):

-25% RechargeTime Strength (all affected targets) for 10s [stacks]
-20% Damage (All) Strength (all affected targets) for 60s [ignores resistance]

-67.05% Heal Dmg, Absorb, Endurance, RunningSpeed, FlyingSpeed, Confused, Terrorized, Held, Immobilized, Stunned, Sleep Strength (all affected targets) for 60s [ignores resistance]

-67.05% Ranged, Melee, Area, Smashing, Lethal, Fire, Cold, Energy, Negative Energy, Psionic, Toxic, Base Defense, ToHit Strength (all affected targets) for 60s [ignores resistance]