AoE on some melee sets... what do you do?

[ZeeHero]

I want to hear how various people compensate for the lack of aoe some melee sets have that make it feel downright weak when fighting large groups due to only being able to hit a couple enemies at once.

 

I've never had much luck with AoE from power pools, most of them seem to not scale to any useful degree 

[aethereal]

What sets are you thinking of?  Besides Stalker sets, I don't think any melee set is in a truly dire AoE situation.

 

Fireball and Ball Lightning in the epics are good, solid attacks.

[Maelwys]

Epic sets indeed have decent AoEs; and on Tankers/Brutes you can get two such AoEs via Mu mastery.
Alternatively; Shield Defense (Shield Charge) or Fiery Aura (Burn) or Radiation Armor (Ground Zero and Radiation Therapy).

[aethereal]

12 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Epic sets indeed have decent AoEs; and on Tankers/Brutes you can get two such AoEs via Mu mastery.
Alternatively; Shield Defense (Shield Charge) or Fiery Aura (Burn) or Radiation Armor (Ground Zero and Radiation Therapy).

 

You can also proc bomb Bio's DNA Siphon, though I feel like doing so significantly impairs survivability.

[MonteCarla]

Cross Punch from Fighting is good, especially with Boxing and Kick.

It's base damage is just a smidge higher than Broadsword Slice or Energy Melee Power Crash, and it gets a 15% bonus to base damage for you having either Kick or Boxing, so +30% if you take both.
I've not been disappointed using it with Superstrength or Martial Arts, where it fills a gap quite nicely as a second AoE.

It is the third pick, but I'd usually be taking Tough and therefore Boxing/Kick anywy on my melee-ers.

 

[Captain Fabulous]

Sands of Mu is a nice cone that does decent damage. It's free and it won't eat up a power slot. Spring Attack is a decent power, but like all useful pool powers it's saddled with a stupidly long recharge.

[ZeeHero]

2 hours ago, aethereal said:

What sets are you thinking of?  Besides Stalker sets, I don't think any melee set is in a truly dire AoE situation.

 

Fireball and Ball Lightning in the epics are good, solid attacks.

Well Street justice aoes are... pathetic, barely hit anything. 10 feet should be standard range for melee aoes, its not like most sets get many of em.

[Championess]

8 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

Well Street justice aoes are... pathetic, barely hit anything. 10 feet should be standard range for melee aoes, its not like most sets get many of em.

 

When they gave tankers the area buff to some of their aoe's Spinning Strike going from 6 to 9 was a real significant buff the powerset felt much better.

 

Though yeah what others are suggesting by getting epic aoe blasts like fireball and proccing them is the ticket.

[ZeeHero]

Is that because the base damage on epics is so bad? I guess I could try proc bombing.

[Clave Dark 5]

AoEs aren't the end all and be all of the game, but if you want to prioritize them, them maybe melee isn't for you.

[Triumphant]

I think of melee ATs (excepting Tankers, perhaps) primarily as single target DPS with a bit of AOE tossed in there.  If you REALLY want to get down and dirty with AOEs, I think you probably want a ranged character.

Having said that, I love playing Brutes and I've had good results with Savage Melee and Titan Weapon.  Also, remember some armor sets have "set and forget" damage toggles like fire and radiation armor.  On melee toons, I tend to look at AOEs as tools for either softening up targets for single target DPS attacks or finishing off weakened foes.

Maybe you can't find powers that really feel like the concept you're imagining? (damage/effects-wise, I mean).  If you want like a super-powerful melee AOE, you're looking at waiting until incarnate to take Mighty judgement power and build it out up to T4.  That thing really gives you the "HULK SMASH!" feel.  

[Maelwys]

9 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

Is that because the base damage on epics is so bad? I guess I could try proc bombing.

 

The base damage in Epic AoEs isn't too bad. However, they tend to have rather long base recharge times, which means that procs have a higher chance to activate in them. Typical slotting is 2x Acc/Dam HOs (or 1x Acc/Dam plus 1x Dam IO if you have sufficient global accuracy) + 4x procs.

[Snarky]

Have you tried a Fire Fire Fire Blaster?  I can tank a 4/8 ITF on one...

[ZeeHero]

1 hour ago, Snarky said:

Have you tried a Fire Fire Fire Blaster?  I can tank a 4/8 ITF on one...

I think you need to re read the "Melee sets" part.

[Talen Lee]

16 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

I want to hear how various people compensate for the lack of aoe some melee sets have that make it feel downright weak when fighting large groups due to only being able to hit a couple enemies at once.

 

I've never had much luck with AoE from power pools, most of them seem to not scale to any useful degree 

I recognise that some sets have strengths and weaknesses and if I like AOE a lot, I should build the things that are really good at AOE.

 

That said, patron pool AOE attacks tend to be pretty juicy. 

[ZeeHero]

Theres a difference between "Being good at" and "Being nigh incapable of"

[Ukase]

I remember asking my dad a question when I was a kid. I'd screwed up, and asked him when faced with the bad options I had, what would he have done. He said, "I don't know. But I do know I wouldn't have put myself in that position" 

So, if an AT I have isn't doing the AoE I wanted -I roll a character that does. Sometimes I'll shelve the character lacking, as things can change. Sometimes, I'll just strip it of the loot and delete it. 

[Troo]

45 minutes ago, ZeeHero said:

Theres a difference between "Being good at" and "Being nigh incapable of"

 

Not all sets are nor should be the same.

Survivability and damage output typically offset each other (excel in one and get a little less of the other). This is as intended,

 

17 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

how various people compensate for the lack of aoe some melee sets have that make it feel downright weak when fighting large groups

 

"feel" is very subjective.

"compensate" if I want the use AoEs I choose to play an archetype / power set that is better at them and not one that is "downright weak".

 

There is no AoE issue once a melee is an Incarnate. Judgement.

 

Before Incarnates and in general:

One good to superior AoE is typically available. Ancillary/Patron Power Pools can offer another. Pool powers can offer a third. An armor with a damage aura increases AoE passively.

 

Tactically, learning to aim or position cones is another way to increase AoE effectiveness. (jump and fire being especially simple & effective)

[Uun]

16 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

Well Street justice aoes are... pathetic, barely hit anything. 10 feet should be standard range for melee aoes, its not like most sets get many of em.

It has more than one. Martial Arts has 1 PBAoE and 0 cones. 

[MTeague]

10 minutes ago, Uun said:

It has more than one. Martial Arts has 1 PBAoE and 0 cones. 

Yep. Although MA gets good +Def vs All in Storm KIck (for some AT's at least). Most "parry" attacks are melee defense only.

[Snarky]

8 hours ago, ZeeHero said:

I think you need to re read the "Melee sets" part.

I TANK with it.  In Melee.  Re-read my response… 💀

[arcane]

Every one of my active Brute/Scrapper/Tanker builds has Char/Melt Armor/Fire Ball to supplement their offense. My Stalkers have Snipes tho. And then you’re often getting a little help from your armor set. And then there’s Judgement, and… reds and… even teammates. That is generally sufficient for me.

[Maelwys]

42 minutes ago, Snarky said:

I TANK with it.  In Melee.  Re-read my response… 💀

Foes punching you in the face repeatedly whilst on fire does not automatically make you a melee set Snarks.

 

(Although it does make for rather entertaining gameplay whenever it's a race to see just who turns to ashes first!)

[Snarky]

28 minutes ago, Maelwys said:

Foes punching you in the face repeatedly whilst on fire does not automatically make you a melee set Snarks.

 

(Although it does make for rather entertaining gameplay whenever it's a race to see just who turns to ashes first!)

98% time i burn them all down.  when i fall?  Rise of the Pheonix bonus nuke....

[PartyKake]

This is City of Heroes, Blapper is a valid AT.