powerset suggestion Proposed new powerset: Infernal Assault -- Where there's a whip there's a way

[Zepp]

Based on discussions about porting Whip, I thought I would flesh out what Infernal Assault (A Secondary Powerset for Doms) would actually look like. I went through and examined all current assault sets, did an analysis of what appears within the sets, and then used Demon Summoning, Fiery Melee, and Fire Manipulation as the basis for the available powers. The six attacks that were considered core were to be the whip and fire sword attacks.

 

So, this is my proposed set, with no new powers.

 

Corruption	1	Ranged, Minor DMG(Fire), Foe DoT(Toxic), -Res
Fire Sword	2	Melee, Moderate Damage(Fire/Lethal)
Lash	4	Close, High DMG(Fire), Foe -Res, Knockdown, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Crack Whip	10	Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG(Fire), Foe -Res, Knockdown, DoT(Toxic)
Envenomed Blades	16	Self +Toxic Damage on all attacks
Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: Point Blank Area of Effect, Minor Damage over Time(Fire), Self +Heal over Time, +Recovery
Fire Sword Circle	28	Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage(Fire/Lethal)
Hell on Earth	35	Ranged, Pet +Dmg, +To Hit, Summon Living Hellfire *[see comments]
Greater Fire Sword	38	Melee, Superior Damage(Fire/Lethal)

 

Possible changes I would like to see:

Consider changing lash to an immobilize and crack whip to a stun [more appropriate for the powers]

Consider changing Fire in Sword, change fire in attack titles to Hellfire, also replacing the Fire DoT with -res and Fire/Tox DoT [bring in line with whip]

Consider changing Envenomed Blades, change name to Hellfire's Wrath, change Tox damage to a Fire/Tox DoT [more interesting and thematic]

Consider changing Cauterizing Aura, change name to Fueling Flames, and changing Fire DoT to Fire/Tox DoT [bring in line with the set]

Consider changing Hell on Earth, change name to Summon Hellfire, change from enchant pet to close targeted AoE (patch) with Fire/Tox DoT [Make functional for the set]

 

--Amended the Post Subject

[biostem]

I don't know if fire attacks would be the best fit.  Maybe bring in some attacks from broadsword or savage melee would be a better fit, (only typed fire/toxic).

[Zepp]

Thanks for the comments biostem. I do have some suggested changes under the unadjusted powerset. The suggestion for using fire sword came from the Whip thread. I think that the animations should be fine, maybe adjusting the damage type to make it fit a little better.

[Steampunkette]

Your Assault set has 1 ranged attack.

 

The suggestion in the other thread was to port over the demon summoning minion ranged fire/toxic blasts to fill out the ranged aspect of the assault set.

 

Assault sets typically wave 3 to 4 ranged attacks with at least one being AoE.

 

This is almost a melee set.

[Coyote]

I like most of it, but not Summon Hellfire. It's not useful if you don't have a pet... I would rather see the animation used for a Lifedrain effect as a ranged single-target blast that does DoT and HoT.

[Zepp]

Technically the whip attacks are two ranged and one ranged cone.... Assault sets average 2.727  ranged ST attacks (if I remember correctly), and 1 ranged MT attack. So this is in line with other assault sets. Furthermore, if you check the whip thread, while Coyote did mention the scenario you brought up (Steampunkette), there were two mentions of using fire sword animations. Because Assault sets generally have 2-3 ST ranged, 1-2 ST melee, and one multi-target attack for melee and ranged, adding more range did not make sense for porting Whip.

 

As such, I went with the fire sword approach which gives us Ranged, Close, 2 Melee, one cone, and one PBAoE for the core attacks. Add a buff and you are 2 attacks from completing the set.

 

Two sets have damage auras, and one set has a summon, so those seemed like good ideas. Most sets do have a sniper, but blazing bolt is already in the Fiery Assault set and there are three non-sniper sets out there already. So, going with a damage aura and a summon seemed like an interesting turn within the range of previously developed Assault sets.

 

Coyote, you make a good point, and I had considered a DoT/HoT power, but there are not many that are in-game... What would you think about the idea of adding Cauterizing Aura to replace Blazing Aura (make it a fire/tox DoT to keep it in line with the rest of the set), and then (apologies, I misread Hell on Earth (was thinking it was more like gang war)) replace Hell on Earth with Rain of Hellfire (a modified version of Rain of Fire that offers a Fire/Tox DoT patch with HoT as well)?

[Zepp]

I like most of it, but not Summon Hellfire. It's not useful if you don't have a pet... I would rather see the animation used for a Lifedrain effect as a ranged single-target blast that does DoT and HoT.

 

Thanks for the suggestions, I incorporated your ideas into the set proposal. [please also not suggested changes to existing powers at the bottom, below the no-new-powers proposal].

[Replacement]

Seconding the idea of using flame sword (with touched up colors) visuals/animations but with some slightly altered stats to be more inline with MM's Hellfire stuff.  This isn't even about power -- you want it have some mechanical distinction from Fiery Assault.

 

I would suggest swapping Crack Whip with Rain of Fire, adjusting numbers as necessary.  Reason: purely so you have a late-game lash to look forward to.  But that's an obviously minor detail.

 

Cauterizing Aura seems... like a dangerous precedent!  I'm not entirely against it, but sustain in Assault sets is super rare.  I wouldn't be surprised if Captain Powerhouse' upcoming Dominator buffs are mostly copying over Blaster Sustains.  It doesn't feel off the table.  But I want it stated for the record: THIS is where you're departing normal.

[Coyote]

I would suggest swapping Crack Whip with Rain of Fire, adjusting numbers as necessary.  Reason: purely so you have a late-game lash to look forward to.  But that's an obviously minor detail.

 

To note, this is kind of a non-starter issue for any new Assault sets incorporating Whips, for a simple reason:

 

There are only 4 whip-using animations, and one of them is a bit problematic (the Summon Hellfire animation) since it would be hard to extend it to medium range, and I'm not sure how it would work as a mob runs away around a corner. So any suggestion that takes out one of the few usable whip-based attack animations really is going against the whole idea of making a usable set that adds the Whip animations into the game as an option other than the personal attacks in Demons.

 

In short: use all of the whip animations.

[Rikis]

You'd have to replace Rain of Fire entirely, Dominators already have it through the Fire Mastery epic. Although do keep in mind that we do have precedent for an assault set with as few as 2 ranged attacks (Earth Assault), so don't feel constrained by that.

[Zepp]

Cauterizing Aura seems... like a dangerous precedent!  I'm not entirely against it, but sustain in Assault sets is super rare.  I wouldn't be surprised if Captain Powerhouse' upcoming Dominator buffs are mostly copying over Blaster Sustains.  It doesn't feel off the table.  But I want it stated for the record: THIS is where you're departing normal.

 

There are currently two Assault sets that have some type of healing ability (Drain Psyche in Psionic Assault & Life Drain in Dark Assault).

 

You'd have to replace Rain of Fire entirely, Dominators already have it through the Fire Mastery epic. Although do keep in mind that we do have precedent for an assault set with as few as 2 ranged attacks (Earth Assault), so don't feel constrained by that.

 

Forgot that was in there...

 

=================================

 

I am going to make a couple of changes to the OP:

I am removing Build Up, adding Envenomed Blades (With a suggestion to change the name at the bottom)

I am bringing back Hell on Earth with an asterisk, in the bottom I will note that it is to be changed to Summon Hellfire which will essentially be a Patch AoE with Fire/Tox DoT.

[Replacement]

I would suggest swapping Crack Whip with Rain of Fire, adjusting numbers as necessary.  Reason: purely so you have a late-game lash to look forward to.  But that's an obviously minor detail.

 

To note, this is kind of a non-starter issue for any new Assault sets incorporating Whips, for a simple reason:

 

There are only 4 whip-using animations, and one of them is a bit problematic (the Summon Hellfire animation) since it would be hard to extend it to medium range, and I'm not sure how it would work as a mob runs away around a corner. So any suggestion that takes out one of the few usable whip-based attack animations really is going against the whole idea of making a usable set that adds the Whip animations into the game as an option other than the personal attacks in Demons.

 

In short: use all of the whip animations.

 

 

You misunderstood (I don't know how to say that online without an implied negative tone -honest mistake, no negativity). I would certainly keep every usable whip animation. I was saying move it down and swap places with one of the later powers, such as the tier 7 or 8.

 

Buuuut this is a miniscule detail not worth mulling at this point. That would be Justin work.

[Replacement]

Pardon the double post. I'm mobile and it's late.

There are currently two Assault sets that have some type of healing ability (Drain Psyche in Psionic Assault & Life Drain in Dark Assault).

 

I believe there's also a click heal in Savage.

 

Zepp, I would suggest editing your last post or creating another with a copy of your most recent take on the set, so people know "this is where commenting on this latest revision begins." Most of this first page is a bit befuddling to a newcomer, now.

[Machariel]

I would think that Infernal Assault would be about in line with Thorny assault in terms of its melee/ranged breakdown, and there's definitely room for an ability power alongside the 7 attacks and self buff - Fiery gets Consume, Earth gets Mud Pots, Icy gets Chillling Embrace, etc.

 

I really like the idea of using the Summon Hellfire animation as a close range patch attack, similar in concept (though hopefully not cast time) to Ignite.  Overall, great concepts.  A Fire/Infernal Assault dom would be super cool.

[Zepp]

Current proposal - no new animations, but modified powers:

 

Name	Animation	Level	Description
Corruption	Corruption	1	Ranged, Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res
Hellfire Blade	Fire Sword	2	Melee, Moderate DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)
Infernal Lash	Lash	4	Close, High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Infernal Whip Crack	Crack Whip	10	Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun
Hellfire's Wrath	Envenomed Blades	16	Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks
Fueling Flames	Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: PPBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec
Hellfire Dervish	Fire Sword Circle	28	PBAoE, Moderate DMG (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic)
Summon Hellfire	Hell on Earth	35	Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic)
Greater Hellfire Blade	Greater Fire Sword	38	Melee, Superior DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)

[justicebeliever]

Current proposal - no new animations, but modified powers:

 

Name	Animation	Level	Description
Corruption	Corruption	1	Ranged, Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res
Hellfire Blade	Fire Sword	2	Melee, Moderate DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)
Infernal Lash	Lash	4	Close, High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Infernal Whip Crack	Crack Whip	10	Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun
Hellfire's Wrath	Envenomed Blades	16	Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks
Fueling Flames	Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: PPBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec
Hellfire Dervish	Fire Sword Circle	28	PBAoE, Moderate DMG (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic)
Summon Hellfire	Hell on Earth	35	Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic)
Greater Hellfire Blade	Greater Fire Sword	38	Melee, Superior DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)

 

I love it...and I love the table format...+1 and +1 Inf

[Steampunkette]

I'd rather see the whip powers treated as melee powers and the set given some REAL ranged attacks. Just drop Corruption's range to the same as lash and call it long reaching melee...

 

While it's all technically not melee, in range, the difference is so small that enemies will close the distance while you're animating.

 

Swap the Fire Sword Stuff for the Demon fire Blasts and call it a set!

[Coyote]

I like it, and I like Steampunkette's version also.

 

Going with Whip attacks all as close melee (20' or so) and using Fire Blast attacks for the ranged attacks works.

Going with Whip attacks as short ranged attacks (40' or so) and using Fire Sword attacks for melee also works.

 

I like the switch to a patch DoT for the Summon Hellfire animation, it's a very good idea.

 

I think that a Whip/Blasts version would PLAY better, but a Whip/Sword version would be visually more impressive, and I would prefer to play the latter.

[Replacement]

Current proposal - no new animations, but modified powers:

 

Name	Animation	Level	Description
Corruption	Corruption	1	Ranged, Minor DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), -Res
Hellfire Blade	Fire Sword	2	Melee, Moderate DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)
Infernal Lash	Lash	4	Close, High DMG (Fire), Foe -Res, Immobilize, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Infernal Whip Crack	Crack Whip	10	Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG (Fire), DoT (Toxic), Foe -Res, Stun
Hellfire's Wrath	Envenomed Blades	16	Self +DoT (Fire/Toxic), +ToHit on all attacks
Fueling Flames	Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: PPBAoE, Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic), Self +HoT, +Rec
Hellfire Dervish	Fire Sword Circle	28	PBAoE, Moderate DMG (Fire), Minor DoT (Toxic)
Summon Hellfire	Hell on Earth	35	Ranged (Location AoE), Minor DoT (Fire/Toxic)
Greater Hellfire Blade	Greater Fire Sword	38	Melee, Superior DMG (Fire) Minor DoT (Toxic)

 

Ship it.

[Zepp]

I'd rather see the whip powers treated as melee powers and the set given some REAL ranged attacks. Just drop Corruption's range to the same as lash and call it long reaching melee...

 

While it's all technically not melee, in range, the difference is so small that enemies will close the distance while you're animating.

 

Swap the Fire Sword Stuff for the Demon fire Blasts and call it a set!

 

I see your point, but it would be much harder to differentiate that set from Fiery Assault in feel and visuals.

[GritIron]

Based on discussions about porting Whip, I thought I would flesh out what Infernal Assault (A Secondary Powerset for Doms) would actually look like. I went through and examined all current assault sets, did an analysis of what appears within the sets, and then used Demon Summoning, Fiery Melee, and Fire Manipulation as the basis for the available powers. The six attacks that were considered core were to be the whip and fire sword attacks.

 

So, this is my proposed set, with no new powers.

 

Corruption	1	Ranged, Minor DMG(Fire), Foe DoT(Toxic), -Res
Fire Sword	2	Melee, Moderate Damage(Fire/Lethal)
Lash	4	Close, High DMG(Fire), Foe -Res, Knockdown, Minor DoT(Toxic)
Crack Whip	10	Short Ranged (Cone), High DMG(Fire), Foe -Res, Knockdown, DoT(Toxic)
Envenomed Blades	16	Self +Toxic Damage on all attacks
Cauterizing Aura	20	Toggle: Point Blank Area of Effect, Minor Damage over Time(Fire), Self +Heal over Time, +Recovery
Fire Sword Circle	28	Point Blank Area of Effect Melee, Moderate Damage(Fire/Lethal)
Hell on Earth	35	Ranged, Pet +Dmg, +To Hit, Summon Living Hellfire *[see comments]
Greater Fire Sword	38	Melee, Superior Damage(Fire/Lethal)

 

Possible changes I would like to see:

Consider changing lash to an immobilize and crack whip to a stun [more appropriate for the powers]

Consider changing Fire in Sword, change fire in attack titles to Hellfire, also replacing the Fire DoT with -res and Fire/Tox DoT [bring in line with whip]

Consider changing Envenomed Blades, change name to Hellfire's Wrath, change Tox damage to a Fire/Tox DoT [more interesting and thematic]

Consider changing Cauterizing Aura, change name to Fueling Flames, and changing Fire DoT to Fire/Tox DoT [bring in line with the set]

Consider changing Hell on Earth, change name to Summon Hellfire, change from enchant pet to close targeted AoE (patch) with Fire/Tox DoT [Make functional for the set]

Im liking what im seeing here. 

 

I dont know what it would take to mak this a reality tho...  but +1 influence from me.

[Steampunkette]

I'd rather see the whip powers treated as melee powers and the set given some REAL ranged attacks. Just drop Corruption's range to the same as lash and call it long reaching melee...

 

While it's all technically not melee, in range, the difference is so small that enemies will close the distance while you're animating.

 

Swap the Fire Sword Stuff for the Demon fire Blasts and call it a set!

 

I see your point, but it would be much harder to differentiate that set from Fiery Assault in feel and visuals.

 

I feel like the sort of "Liquid Flame" look of the Demon Pets's attacks and the Whip Attacks themselves could help to differentiate it visually, to an extent. Using the whip would also be a big honking difference (And I know a TON of people who would play a Melee-Dom just because of them, myself included!). As far as the actual -feel- of the powers, that is a bit difficult. It really depends on how they function on a mechanical level.

 

Having the same animation time and damage values, for example, would ruin it. Especially if the only difference is the DoT type. I'll take a look at it when I get home and make a fuller suggestion.

[Steampunkette]

So looking into it, the ranged attack powers of the Demons themselves are really just reskins of the current Fire Blast powers with damage type changes applied. Complete with the swap from fire to toxic DoT.

 

We -could- change things up by making the Hellfire attacks reduce the target's Damage Resistance ala Sonic Blast. That would make it the -only- Dominator Secondary which reduces DR.

 

The others tend to reduce Speed, Recharge, ToHit, Endurance/Recovery, or add a mess of knockdown. The only exception is Fire, which has a DoT component.

 

Split the attacks damage between Fire and Toxic, add the -RES component, and even if the attack speeds are largely the same between Fire and Hellfire, the mechanics and Fire Whips will set them apart.

[Leogunner]

So looking into it, the ranged attack powers of the Demons themselves are really just reskins of the current Fire Blast powers with damage type changes applied. Complete with the swap from fire to toxic DoT.

 

We -could- change things up by making the Hellfire attacks reduce the target's Damage Resistance ala Sonic Blast. That would make it the -only- Dominator Secondary which reduces DR.

 

The others tend to reduce Speed, Recharge, ToHit, Endurance/Recovery, or add a mess of knockdown. The only exception is Fire, which has a DoT component.

 

Split the attacks damage between Fire and Toxic, add the -RES component, and even if the attack speeds are largely the same between Fire and Hellfire, the mechanics and Fire Whips will set them apart.

 

Or we could just go with the proposed revised set of the OP.

[Zepp]

The Damage Type and -Res would set it apart mechanically, but the visible difference is important for those involved in PvP, as well as providing an actual aesthetic incentive to choose it over another set.

 

My stance is that I am fine either way, I want my whip. However, I think the set I am currently proposing is the better way to go. I think the lack of range would be easier to sell it because of how powerful -Res can be.