Listen to Feedback: Sonic Melee Not Ready

[ShardWarrior]

6 minutes ago, Wravis said:

I'm gonna start saying this any time they release powers that underperform numbers-wise. Or any time someone points out a potential bug.

 

There are many sets that under-perform compared to others.  It has not stopped people from playing them.  Bugs that take out a server or crash the game?  Absolutely those should be addressed quickly.  Those that are not earth shattering?  They can most likely wait.

 

7 minutes ago, Wravis said:

That's just how they made it. If you don't like it, don't play it.

 

Correct.

 

7 minutes ago, Wravis said:

Better yet, don't give feedback at all. Just take everything unquestioningly.

 

The HC folks have asked for player feedback.  Some have done their due diligence and thoroughly tested the new content as best they could and provided feedback.  Whether or not the HC people decide to take that feedback into account is absolutely entirely up to them.

 

It seems to me the confusion with these posts that crop up every time new things are released for testing stems from people who appear to have a strong sense of entitlement.  HC is under no obligation to make changes based on every piece of feedback the players provide.  HC is not a commercial product.  There is no money for profit changing hands, so there is no strong incentive to keep a paying customer base happy.  It does not need any of us here.  We are nice to haves, not necessities.  We can all disappear tomorrow and the HC team will still have their servers for themselves, friends, family and those still interested playing the game.  They can turn off all servers any time they like.  

 

It seems to me that the HC folk have acknowledged that Sonic Melee is not in the best state it can be, but will release it as is and fix it later.  What more are you looking for them to do?  If it is not going to crash the server, then let them release it.  If they do or not fix it later is up to them.  

 

15 minutes ago, Wravis said:

If you don't like it, don't play it.

 

Correct.  It really is not more difficult than that.  

[arcane]

I don’t really have an opinion yet on Sonic Melee, but the “HC always releases bad sets” narrative is so tiresome. Some people don’t seem capable of functioning without Fire/Ice Blast, Bio Armor, Cold Dom/Kinetics tier sets, and that’s obviously a non-starter in reality. If you don’t think average tier sets are okay to play, have at it, but your viewpoint isn’t practical enough for the devs to take feedback from it.

[lemming]

Maybe HC isn't trying to satisfy the min-maxer and trying to go for something the average player can attain? </fftmbs>

[Psyonico]

18 minutes ago, arcane said:

I don’t really have an opinion yet on Sonic Melee, but the “HC always releases bad sets” narrative is so tiresome. Some people don’t seem capable of functioning without Fire/Ice Blast, Bio Armor, Cold Dom/Kinetics tier sets, and that’s obviously a non-starter in reality. If you don’t think average tier sets are okay to play, have at it, but your viewpoint isn’t practical enough for the devs to take feedback from it.

Remember when Marine was released and people still complained about it?

[Championess]

55 minutes ago, Seed22 said:

It pains me to see that the only people who can numerically speak to the power of a set are once again driven off by white knights for HC.

 

Yet another set's feedback thread bogged by Feels Fine to Me bullshit, or volunteer drivel. Again. 

 

Very frustrating

 

To me it clearly looks like they've been listening to most feedback so saying they aren't is very hyperbolic.  I'm a rogue and I stand where I stand, the multiple tweaks make it very evident to me feedback is accounted for.  

 

The multiple changes and complaints are getting a little long in the tooth.  Do I think its functionably decent?  Yes.  Do I think managing that toggle will be cumbersome and should bear fruit on hard targets where currently it doesn't seem so?  Yes.  It's in a fine enough state where they can release it and see how it plays after the holiday rest with lots more data to mine.

 

The largest undertaking has got to be all that MM stuff that has needed to get the ball rolling for a while now.  I'm glad that's happening and I don't even play them.  

 

Chill out it's just a videogame the devs clearly love to play as well.  

 

 

[golstat2003]

3 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

There are many sets that under-perform compared to others.  It has not stopped people from playing them.  Bugs that take out a server or crash the game?  Absolutely those should be addressed quickly.  Those that are not earth shattering?  They can most likely wait.

 

 

Correct.

 

 

The HC folks have asked for player feedback.  Some have done their due diligence and thoroughly tested the new content as best they could and provided feedback.  Whether or not the HC people decide to take that feedback into account is absolutely entirely up to them.

 

It seems to me the confusion with these posts that crop up every time new things are released for testing stems from people who appear to have a strong sense of entitlement.  HC is under no obligation to make changes based on every piece of feedback the players provide.  HC is not a commercial product.  There is no money for profit changing hands, so there is no strong incentive to keep a paying customer base happy.  It does not need any of us here.  We are nice to haves, not necessities.  We can all disappear tomorrow and the HC team will still have their servers for themselves, friends, family and those still interested playing the game.  They can turn off all servers any time they like.  

 

It seems to me that the HC folk have acknowledged that Sonic Melee is not in the best state it can be, but will release it as is and fix it later.  What more are you looking for them to do?  If it is not going to crash the server, then let them release it.  If they do or not fix it later is up to them.  

 

 

Correct.  It really is not more difficult than that.  

 

For the record I'm fine with it being released and them fixing it later. 

[GM_GooglyMoogly]

Please keep the discussion to the issues at hand, which are: 1) does HC listen to feedback and 2) is sonic melee "ready."

 

Arguing whether someone is a white knight, black night, hero, villain, rogue, or vigilante is not needed.

[Gobbledigook]

6 hours ago, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

Fun Fact:  Did you know that we can tell if you've logged on to Brainstorm (open beta) or the other servers?  That includes seeing the AT, powersets, time played, etc.

 

Your criticisms and critiques have much more weight when you actually try something and provide data points to show why you think something needs changing.  "Everybody knows it's bad" is certainly a permissible statement to make.  Hyperbole is usually not very persuasive.   

 

A much more persuasive statement is one that shows that you tested the new thing and can provide videos, photos, spreadsheets, etc. to prove your point.  None of those things are required.  But providing them is much more likely to influence change. 

Big Brother is watching! 🫵

[Gobbledigook]

I have not actually tried SM (hence my lack of feedback on this set), only the MM changes but i tend to stay clear of certain gimmicky sets, hit A then B to open C sort of sets.

Edited 8 hours ago by Gobbledigook

[PeregrineFalcon]

Hello all.

 

I have done no testing at all for this page, mostly because Sonic Melee just didn't seem that interesting to me. However, I did want to stop in and say "thank you." This thread has been very entertaining.

 

Take care all and Happy Thanksgiving.

[Glacier Peak]

32 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

Hello all.

 

I have done no testing at all for this page, mostly because Sonic Melee just didn't seem that interesting to me. However, I did want to stop in and say "thank you." This thread has been very entertaining.

 

Take care all and Happy Thanksgiving.

What no /jranger!?

[Psi-bolt]

5 hours ago, arcane said:

I don’t really have an opinion yet on Sonic Melee, but the “HC always releases bad sets” narrative is so tiresome. Some people don’t seem capable of functioning without Fire/Ice Blast, Bio Armor, Cold Dom/Kinetics tier sets, and that’s obviously a non-starter in reality. If you don’t think average tier sets are okay to play, have at it, but your viewpoint isn’t practical enough for the devs to take feedback from it.

 

The thing about Fire/Ice Blast and other top tier sets is that they get that performance very easily.    Personally, I don't have any problem with sets having mechanics or unique features.  But those sets should provide a benefit for the additional fiddling.   That benefit doesn't necessarily have to be DPS, but it should be something.  Otherwise, the only reason to play a set is thematic.  Which is not a bad reason, of course, but it does limit its use.  

 

So for example, since Attune is intended to juice your ST damage against hard target (hard as in high health), then Attune should in theory provide a slightly better benefit than a set that doesn't require a toggle DoT to improve its damage.  That just seems sensible IMO.  Now Attune isn't that hard to set up and Captain Powerhouse has made it much better to use while this has been on Open Beta.  So while I think there should be benefit to having to use Attune compared to other sets, it doesn't need to be massive.

[Glacier Peak]

Homecoming listens to feedback. 

 

I've never seen in any other free game, (let alone in any paid game), someone from the development team respond to a reported bug or issue in real time, post a patch to fix it, then re-engage with the person who reported it to check if that issue was resolved. That's insane by itself, but add in that neither myself or the developer are paid to do either of those things and we both have other obligations, and it's a miracle to me. It might even be foolish because now that's the standard that I expect working with the Homecoming Team - but it works both ways. I'm not going to waste their time with garbage knee jerk patch note rants because there are plenty of posters who do that already in these forums and Discord. They should expect from me, and anyone else who participates in testing, the same level of passion and effort that players expect of them. 

 

And that's my opinion. 

[Captain Powerhouse]

8 hours ago, Wravis said:

  

 

 

I wont lie... I did face palm 👀 

 

(sorry @GM_GooglyMoogly)

[Captain Powerhouse]

On 11/18/2025 at 6:27 PM, Snarky said:

they did not listen on the rewrite of Black Hole...

 

look, the CoH Homecoming team is great.  to a point.  (in my opinion) when they decide to do something they really only listen for echo chamber sentiments.  anything contrary to the pre made decisions is noted, filed, and forgotten.

 

This is a fascinating example to use in this discussion, because listen to whom?

 

There are players that begged for the power not to lose its existing functionality as they would use it for phase av in some content types. If we CAN retain such functionality and add a new feature, we will.

 

But we won't listen to players telling us NOT to listen to another group of players. Especially when that other group are advocating for the state of the set/power, power that was not being changed due to over-performance issues. In the past we have changed some powers with the intent to improve, and sacrificed previous players attachments to said powers and not because they were overperforming. We considered that to be a mistake and try not to repeat it.

 

The fact that the phase functionality remained is precisely proof that we listen to players and tried our best to deliver a middle ground. And funny enough, there are further tweaks in the queue for the test that have been tested in closed beta... or at least hit, not sure if some of the advocates for phase actually tested it, but in the time it was there we didn't hear complaints. Frustratingly, that change could not make the opening of the page due to merge conflicts as it was a very old branch. But do stay [a]tunned 🥁 (ok I'll walk myself out... a gain).

 

 

[Starhammer]

On 11/18/2025 at 3:45 PM, GM_GooglyMoogly said:

 

I think I may have a different definition of "listen" than some of you.  I consider listening is hearing and paying attention to what is being said.  I submit that HC does indeed hear the complaints and critiques just as well as we hear the kudos and congrats.

 

Some may be thinking of "listen" like when a parent tells a child, "you better listen to what I am telling you!"  Or something similar outside of a parent-child relationship.  In my mind that goes beyond listening; that is "hear me and obey."

 

I admit that we aren't as good at the obey part.

FWIW, (and I know this isn't directly related to this specific thread)... I think when we get enough interaction/response to at least know we have been heard, that is sufficiently validating, regardless of where it goes after. It's just a nice reminder that we haven't wasted our time (I know most folks have much less than me to invest) trying to add our 2 bits in a vain hope of making things a little better here or there. So for all the devs & mods that keep the interaction going, thank you.

"If you don't like it, don't play it"

To be fair, that's pretty much how it will go when it hits live. But in a feedback thread, it's not helpful. When we just shut up and accept what we're given, even/especially when it isn't fully cooked, it implies acceptance of a new standard or precedent. Any of us putting any effort into these updates, even us mere players, content consumers, should be doing everything within our power to strive for whatever improvements we can inspire or coerce. We can't let the strive for Perfection undermine "Good Enough" to release, but neither should we allow Good Enough to sidetrack the continued journey toward Perfection. It's not a binary issue.

May everyone's holidays be joyous, and may you experience what you celebrate for others 🙂

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, Starhammer said:

"If you don't like it, don't play it"

To be fair, that's pretty much how it will go when it hits live. But in a feedback thread, it's not helpful. When we just shut up and accept what we're given, even/especially when it isn't fully cooked, it implies acceptance of a new standard or precedent.

 

This is not what anyone suggested.  No one said "take it or leave it and no need to bother testing at all."  That is a distortion of what was said.  Of course, test if you want to and of course, provide your suggestions and feedback.  That is what the HC folks have asked for. 

 

The issue addressed stems from a select few who seem to have a very overinflated sense of entitlement feeling that HC did not take their specific feedback into account, and that means that HC sucks and does not listen to the players.  HC is never going to please everyone and if anyone is going into testing thinking that their feedback alone is going to get HC to change direction, I would suggest those people need to better manage their expectations.  

[Wravis]

21 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

This is not what anyone suggested.  No one said "take it or leave it and no need to bother testing at all."  That is a distortion of what was said.  Of course, test if you want to and of course, provide your suggestions and feedback.  That is what the HC folks have asked for. 

 

The issue addressed stems from a select few who seem to have a very overinflated sense of entitlement feeling that HC did not take their specific feedback into account, and that means that HC sucks and does not listen to the players.  HC is never going to please everyone and if anyone is going into testing thinking that their feedback alone is going to get HC to change direction, I would suggest those people need to better manage their expectations.  

As opposed to the people who think their opinion is infallible because they were among the few people who liked the thing people are unhappy with, that wasn't changed. Get off of your high horse. 

You and Ghost stated several times "if you don't like it, don't play it". That's not a distortion. You just think your shit don't stink.

Edited 4 hours ago by Wravis

[ShardWarrior]

1 minute ago, Wravis said:

You and Ghost stated several times "if you don't like it, don't play it". That's not a distortion.

 

Well, yes it is a distortion.  I never suggested that you should not test anything and provide your feedback.  What I said is a far cry from that.  There is nothing wrong with testing the set, disliking how it performs in its current state and thinking that it should be worked on a bit more before being released.  The reality is, HC disagrees with you and for better or worse is going to release it anyway and fix it at a later date.  You can either accept that and play the set as is once it hits live or not and wait for them to eventually fix it.  That is "if you do not like it, do not play it." 

 

Seems to me no amount of arguing is going to get them to change their mind, so what good is whining and ranting on the forum going to accomplish?  If you feel your feedback carries more weight than anyone else, I would suggest you need to manage your expectations better.

[Wravis]

27 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

 

Well, yes it is a distortion.  I never suggested that you should not test anything and provide your feedback.  What I said is a far cry from that.  There is nothing wrong with testing the set, disliking how it performs in its current state and thinking that it should be worked on a bit more before being released.  The reality is, HC disagrees with you and for better or worse is going to release it anyway and fix it at a later date.  You can either accept that and play the set as is once it hits live or not and wait for them to eventually fix it.  That is "if you do not like it, do not play it." 

 

Seems to me no amount of arguing is going to get them to change their mind, so what good is whining and ranting on the forum going to accomplish?  If you feel your feedback carries more weight than anyone else, I would suggest you need to manage your expectations better.

I don't think my whining is helpful. You're correct. And I asked for this thread to be removed before most of this discussion happened, because I knew it was made out of frustration and wanted time to think it through from a less angry headspace.

I was told that they were leaving it up because people agree with me.

But then I was insulted by a developer

  

On 11/18/2025 at 6:39 AM, Captain Powerhouse said:

Yikes… been decades since I seen one of these high school style line by line replies.

 

and told to shut up and stop giving feedback if I don't like things.

  

On 11/18/2025 at 6:35 PM, ShardWarrior said:

I would also suggest, those that do not like the new melee set to simply not play it.

  

11 hours ago, ShardWarrior said:

 As I said earlier, those who do not like the new set do not have to play it.  

 That's the point of testing and feedback. To try to get things that you don't like improved, so you do like them. And I'm clearly not the only one who doesn't like Attune.

However, this isn't feedback on the specifics of Sonic Melee. There's a Focused Feedback thread for that. 

And sure, I'm ranting. Because I'm angry at the way this was handled.

My criticism was primarily that they did not intend to give this set a chance to be tested. When most sets have 3-4 months of testing, and this had 2 weeks? When was there time to listen to feedback? It was always going to be pushed out before Thanksgiving. They wasted tester time. People spent their time giving feedback that was not going to be addressed because it needed to be pushed out right away.

Edited 3 hours ago by Wravis

[Glacier Peak]

3 minutes ago, Wravis said:

told my opinion was garbage

 

4 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

 I'm not going to waste their time with garbage knee jerk patch note rants because there are plenty of posters who do that already in these forums and Discord. 

This is inaccurate and request you edit your post to correct that. Please refrain from further promulgating this inaccuracy. I did not write what you've implied and I wasn't quoting you, nor did I @ you, or even mention your name in that post. 

[ShardWarrior]

3 minutes ago, Wravis said:

But then I was insulted by a developer

Welcome to the club! 😁👍

 

3 minutes ago, Wravis said:

That's the point of testing and feedback. To try to get things that you don't like improved, so you do like them.

 

And you have done that.  

 

5 minutes ago, Wravis said:

My criticism was primarily that they did not intend to give this set a chance to be tested. When most sets have 3-4 months of testing, and this had 2 weeks? When was there time to listen to feedback? It was always going to be pushed out before Thanksgiving. They wasted tester time. People spent their time giving feedback that was not going to be addressed because it needed to be pushed out right away.

 

I agree this was a very short window for testing.  It is what HC decided to do, so nothing anyone can do about it.  I would also think that feedback they received is not going to just get tossed in the bin.  I imagine they have taken notes and will be using the feedback for future power adjustments.  

[Wravis]

1 minute ago, Glacier Peak said:

This is inaccurate and request you edit your post to correct that. Please refrain from further promulgating this inaccuracy. I did not write what you've implied and I wasn't quoting you, nor did I @ you, or even mention your name in that post. 

If that's truly not what you intended, I apologize.

It's how I interpreted that part of your post, but I believe you. And I edited it out.

[Rudra]

32 minutes ago, Wravis said:

And I asked for this thread to be removed before most of this discussion happened

You don't need a GM to do that. You can remove any thread you originated by selecting to hide it from the edit options. I am not aware of responses preventing that. If responses do prevent that? Then my apologies for the erroneous information.