page 3 [OPEN BETA] Patch Notes for December 5th, 2025

[Azael]

15 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

Or wait until changes are actually published to the live shards before making decisions?

I deleted them long time ago like 5 months ago bc I was barely using them (and I don't like to go past 3 pages) - both were level 50, one broad sword and one super strength. Then started making a dual blades / bio. 

[Frosticus]

I don't have a lot of hope when the main dev says (live) retsu is redundant on a set that has under 30% def at ED cap and a meager 34% ddr.

 

I think these changes are heavily influenced by IOs and incarnates and the 30/300 t9s are awful unless you have a lot of +rech in your build, which again leads to balance around IOs and incarnates.

 

If we are keeping score (all t4d)

Both my /ea stalkers will be turfed. 

My elec/nin sentinel will be turfed.

I think I can salvage my stone/nin scrapper, but unsure if I will cause there are way better secondaries than nin.

 

[MDLittle]

Okay, got my interest (since I'm somewhat of a sentinel main). I -DO- like the crash being removed from most tier 9 defense powersets...I almost never got unstoppable because the crash generally meant death. Looks like I'm off to go test!

[Wavicle]

On 12/5/2025 at 2:20 PM, The Curator said:

Opportunity now grants a perception buff based on meter buildup, with a max of +40% at full meter.

it's 25% in fact.

Which is wrong, the game or the patch notes?

[Moghedien]

I dont get the constant nerf to controller damg. 

The only real damg Controllers can do is through procs and you keep nerfing them as soon as they are actually worth slotting....

The game is 90% about damg and 5% tanking and 5% healing and thats it, even the new lvls wont change that.

Controlls are completely redundant in endgame and had been for ages. 90% of the time the mob groups are dead in 3 mere seconds, making controls absolutely useless.

If people want to skip set bonuses for more proc damg, let them do it for gods sake.

There is no place for controlls anymore where tanks can herd 30 mobs and 2 blasters aoe them down in 2 seconds.

And in the rare occasions of 4 stars, the only trollers who can get spots are either /cold or /nature and they are only taken or the secondary which corr or defs are way better at.

There is absolutely no reason to take a controller over a corr or defender, since they deal more damg AND have better buffs/debuffs-

 

Btw the fact that you buffed BURN... the numer 1 damg dealer in almost EVERY single farm build for years and nerfed whitecap and hypnotsizing lights is just a sign of either total loss of touch for the game or clear bias.

 

 

 

Edited Monday at 07:16 AM by Moghedien

[Lusiphur Malache]

Increasing the area for Oppressive Gloom is a bad idea. Now more mobs will lose abilities and the user will lose more hitpoints 

[Maelwys]

12 hours ago, Americas Angel said:

I can't see the T9 nerfs being scrapped again, only to get revisited in another page at a later date for a third time. And I can't see them being scrapped outright, because they've survived closed beta, and are now in open beta. Open beta is largely just for bug fixes, feature polish, and minor tweaks. Contentious stuff (i.e. stuff that can go away if people complain enough) rarely makes it to open beta. So IMO it's safe to say these T9 nerfs are going live as-is.

 

I know it's bad form to say feedback has been ignored. For all I know it's been thoroughly listened to and just disagreed with. But if the dev team don't engage with any of the concerns, i'm not sure how useful this distinction is. It certainly makes leaving feedback, or testing, feel completely pointless. And I say this as someone who used to hardcore test all of the armorset changes.

I've gone on record as saying I'm distinctly not a fan of the T9 changes as-is.

There are aspects of the changes I can get on board with.
Losing the crashes? Great.
Standardizing them around similar levels of duration/recharge? Takes away a bit of the uniqueness, but since they don't all have completely identical effects... Sure.
Lowering the durations from 120s and 180s to 30s and 40s? HELL no.

They have tweaked the durations a little bit (Unstoppable went from 30s to 40s for example) but it's been far too slight thus far.

IMO the duration should be at minimum 60 seconds for the powers that previously had 120s duration (like One with the Shield and Strength of Will) and 90 seconds for the powers that previously had 180s duration (like Overload, Unstoppable, Kuji-In Retsu and Elude). Because anything less than that completely upends the original point of these powers - they become comparatively useless for surviving an occasional prolonged difficult encounter (think: fighting a BBEG) in favour of becoming a more generic short-term "spike survivability" boost (think: weathering a nasty alpha strike).

It's the devs' sandbox we're playing inside of; and they can certainly choose to upend things like this. However it's still a bad idea (in my mind at least!) to upend things this much whenever they could tone the changes down and/or implement mutually exclusive T9 powers - and that approach would seem to be the best one, frankly.

Consider:
+ Two versions of each T9 per armor powerset.
+ One with short duration/recharge [say 30s/120s; if non-enhancable]

+ One with long duration/recharge [say 120s/360s; if non-enhanceable]

+ Neither with an utterly crippling "-100% endurance and most of your health" crash
+ Win/Win.

Please?

[PyroBeetle]

6 hours ago, Moghedien said:

I dont get the constant nerf to controller damg. 

The only real damg Controllers can do is through procs and you keep nerfing them as soon as they are actually worth slotting....

I actually see the Devs plan to have been slowly trying to get rid of, or at least mitigate the presence of Proc Monsters. The changes with Adaptive Recharge and removing the proc damage from armor sets has highly been about this. The depth changes in cines make the powers much more usable, and much less proccable. The changes in the T9s are also largely about turning the game away from damage, because when you only had to rely on a T9/Melee/RoP rotation for survival, you could just proc the bejesus out of your attacks.

 

This has been the meta for this game since 2019. The only reason it wasn't meta on live is because of the way the market worked, it was just too expensive to build a proc monster for 99 percent of the game population, but for the 1 percent who could afford it, yes proc monsters were the bomb and outshone everything else.

 

Now, the changes have slowly been about reducing the effectiveness of damage procs (especially on toons that could most effectively leverage them due to either extreme protection scalars or ATOs like tanks, or highly effective controls like, well, controllers) while boosting the relative effectiveness of full sets, and it is huge. However the devs have stated for years they were looking to change proc fu, ir mire directly nerf procs, and that is why you hear the collective outcry from those that abuse them (I too proc fu, and my most recent beast Pyro/Marine Contiller will languish now until/if the pendulum swings back the other way).

 

Any cries that this is coming out of left field or the devs dont know what they are doing are just spurious. They have stated this was their intent for years. Just gives me a chance to roll/create new toons that are overpowered in a new way. The age of man is over, now is the age of the orc...or you could state, the age of tanks is over, now is the age of the brute.

 

 

Edited Monday at 01:57 PM by PyroBeetle
Double post on quote

[Myrmidon]

🎶It’s beginning to look like Respec/Mids Time, all the holiday long🎶

[Maelwys]

13 minutes ago, Myrmidon said:

🎶It’s beginning to look like Respec/Mids Time, all the holiday long🎶

♫♫ "I could have been someone", well, so could anyone ♫♫
♫♫ You took my procs from me when I first saw panel #2 ♫♫
♫♫ I kept them with me, babe, I put them with my own ♫♫
♫♫ Can't clear four stars alone, I've built my toon around you... ♫♫
 

 

Edited Monday at 03:00 PM by Maelwys

[arcane]

Kind of cringy continuously calling the T9 changes nerfs when those changes are about to make the powers more popular picks across the board. 

[regperson]

As a Dark Armor tanker, I think the Obscure Sustenance changes are cool.  Being able to finally slot endurance mod there will open up some flexibility on my build, so I'm looking forward to that.

[Jacke]

43 minutes ago, arcane said:

Kind of cringy continuously calling the T9 changes nerfs when those changes are about to make the powers more popular picks across the board. 

 

The Powers as changed are radically different from the current Live versions, to the point where the use cases are almost completely disjoint.  I skipped nearly all of them in my builds, but other players make good use of them, and I may have adopted them in some builds of Toons to come.  But the changed T9s are different.  Whether I or others make use of them, it won't be for the same reasons as the current Live T9s.

 

 

Edited Monday at 03:56 PM by Jacke

[admiralnorman]

9 hours ago, Moghedien said:

I dont get the constant nerf to controller damg. 

The only real damg Controllers can do is through procs and you keep nerfing them as soon as they are actually worth slotting....

The game is 90% about damg and 5% tanking and 5% healing and thats it, even the new lvls wont change that.

Controlls are completely redundant in endgame and had been for ages. 90% of the time the mob groups are dead in 3 mere seconds, making controls absolutely useless.

If people want to skip set bonuses for more proc damg, let them do it for gods sake.

There is no place for controlls anymore where tanks can herd 30 mobs and 2 blasters aoe them down in 2 seconds.

And in the rare occasions of 4 stars, the only trollers who can get spots are either /cold or /nature and they are only taken or the secondary which corr or defs are way better at.

There is absolutely no reason to take a controller over a corr or defender, since they deal more damg AND have better buffs/debuffs-

 

Btw the fact that you buffed BURN... the numer 1 damg dealer in almost EVERY single farm build for years and nerfed whitecap and hypnotsizing lights is just a sign of either total loss of touch for the game or clear bias.

 

 

 

I've joined a few of the very end game hard level content. The teams need a typical structure and control is 100% needed. They are pretty hard to find though, not really broadcasting unless filling a dps slot. I believe there are discords.

 

But yeah, every AT is needed, every roll crucial. Fights have mechanics, it's all there.

[Shin Magmus]

48 minutes ago, Jacke said:

 

The Powers as changed are radically different from the current Live versions, to the point where the use cases are almost completely disjoint.  I skipped nearly all of them in my builds, but other players make good use of them, and I may have adopted them in some builds of Toons to come.  But the changed T9s are different.  Whether I or others make use of them, it won't be for the same reasons as the current Live T9s.

 

 

   You tell it like it is.  Here's an example:

 

   I'm going for the Old School Rules badge on MLTF (STF).  On Live my Invuln Brute isn't quite up to snuff and the much lower Energy Res, combined with minor -End and -Recov resistance, means that I'm going to die quickly AND get sapped if I don't die when solo tanking Lord Recluse for the team.  Fortunately, I have a 3-minute Unstoppable which will cap my Energy Res and make it impossible for Recluse to sap me.  3 Minutes is definitely long enough for my team to at least take out the red tower, maybe even more than that, and then the tanking will be much easier and we'll be past the "hard" part.  On Open Beta I pop Unstoppable and only get 40s out of it... which might be enough for this specific use-case if the team doesn't suck, but there's lots of similar fights where it won't be.  Yeah there's no crash, but it doesn't last long enough to protect me through the whole fight (to say nothing of the T9s that only last 30s... yikes), so as soon as it drops I'm going to be weak again and die.  I'll die not because of a crash, but because the short duration of the power made it worthless for this use-case and I need something else.

 

   Now these examples use "weak" characters and team comps, but not every single team you're on will be great.  You won't always have the right mix of incarnate powers and support sets to make everyone an unkillable god, but you did used to have options to turn yourself into an unkillable god for 3 minutes.  A nerf to a 30s duration means these powers last 1/6th as long as they used to: that's 1-2 trash enemy spawns and nothing more.  This is why many people are asking for mutually-exclusive options, but yet again the overwhelming majority of feedback is being ignored disagreed with and silently disregarded by the dev team.  I actually don't have much to add, because other people have already made all the good points necessary to "justify" problems with the T9 changes.  I am in agreement that many of these powers feel worse and now only have value in a hyper specific combo-chain using Demonic Aura and dumb powers like Unrelenting all in tandem with each other to cover their gaps: a needlessly complex strategy that I've seen other players use but don't care for myself.  I just listed one possible example and want to let everyone know that I am absolutely a player who uses Live Unstoppable and Kuji-In Retsu.  I don't use those powers often, but I get incredible value out of them when I decide to use them.

[arcane]

I am 100% okay with the request for mutually exclusive T9’s, provided the longer duration version retains the original crash.

 

If people are having trouble tanking LR without T9’s, feel free to PM me for a tutorial.

Edited Monday at 05:09 PM by arcane

[Maelwys]

6 minutes ago, arcane said:

I am 100% okay with the request for mutually exclusive T9’s, provided the longer duration version retains the original crash.

Personally I'd prefer a slightly lessened crash on some of the tougher-to-recover-from T9s (Unstoppable, Overload, Elude, Kuji-In Retsu).

Honestly, I'm comparatively fine with losing *most* of my HP and Endurance. But that -100% Endurance is a killer.
I'd much rather have a "-90%" or "-100" Endurance loss than a "-100%" endurance loss. Detoggling sucks.

[Super Atom]

Make the duration even shorter and add the crash back anyway

 

 

🥰

[Dandropo]

Super strenght new Power (toggle One) doesn't work in pvp. No damage value on SS Powers, only the 20% bonus damage.

[Championess]

The thought of adding dual selections of the t9's may sound like a good compromise but I'd rather it get ironed out for eveyone to enjoy with some compromises both ways.  We don't need to go adding back full duration and we dont need to standardize them all against one another, some crash can go back into some of these to add a bit of duration.  

 

I agree with @Maelwys about the various levels of duration for certain of t9's.  Some t9's like Elude give you nothing you aren't getting a lot of already, but if you give it something highly beneficial outside of more defense then sure duration on that could be 30-45s.  But for something like Retsu that one should have 60-90s duration since Nin is a bit more dependent on that defense.  

 

It's a bit of give and take for all sides.  For some powersets the old t9 behavior was relied on.  The sticking point is full on crashes for some of them, if we put some crash back into

some of them to get some duration back that would be manageable.

[skoryy]

10 hours ago, Moghedien said:

I dont get the constant nerf to controller damg. 

 

What nerf to controller damage? Hypnotizing Lights is the only thing touched.

[Moghedien]

4 hours ago, PyroBeetle said:

I actually see the Devs plan to have been slowly trying to get rid of, or at least mitigate the presence of Proc Monsters. The changes with Adaptive Recharge and removing the proc damage from armor sets has highly been about this. The depth changes in cines make the powers much more usable, and much less proccable. The changes in the T9s are also largely about turning the game away from damage, because when you only had to rely on a T9/Melee/RoP rotation for survival, you could just proc the bejesus out of your attacks.

 

This has been the meta for this game since 2019. The only reason it wasn't meta on live is because of the way the market worked, it was just too expensive to build a proc monster for 99 percent of the game population, but for the 1 percent who could afford it, yes proc monsters were the bomb and outshone everything else.

 

Now, the changes have slowly been about reducing the effectiveness of damage procs (especially on toons that could most effectively leverage them due to either extreme protection scalars or ATOs like tanks, or highly effective controls like, well, controllers) while boosting the relative effectiveness of full sets, and it is huge. However the devs have stated for years they were looking to change proc fu, ir mire directly nerf procs, and that is why you hear the collective outcry from those that abuse them (I too proc fu, and my most recent beast Pyro/Marine Contiller will languish now until/if the pendulum swings back the other way).

 

Any cries that this is coming out of left field or the devs dont know what they are doing are just spurious. They have stated this was their intent for years. Just gives me a chance to roll/create new toons that are overpowered in a new way. The age of man is over, now is the age of the orc...or you could state, the age of tanks is over, now is the age of the brute.

 

So when the game is 90% of damg and controls are absolutely redundant and pointless in endgame teams cause mobs drop so fast and AVs are practically immune to them, there is a major design flaw because without procs controller damg is the worst of all ATs by far.

That leaves a class with a pretty useless primary endgame and a toned down secondary compared to corr and defenders.

Apart from flavor Controllers ad nothing to the endgame thats is needed or other classes cant do way better, if they loose the already meager damg.

 

I cant really see the game slowly tunring away from damg, when BURN was buffed like crazy.

Sentinels got buffed damg wise. underperforming sets were buffed meele wise, Stalkers got damg buffs.

Plus i wouldnt call Controllers using Procs absusing the system, they are trying to add something to endagme teams , and since nobody needs controls and corr or defenders have better buffs, they want to ad at least a little damg before whole mobgroups have been killed in 2 seconds.

 

Many times in full teams the mobs are all dead before you can set up all debuffs.......

Edited Monday at 06:09 PM by Moghedien

[Moghedien]

11 minutes ago, skoryy said:

 

What nerf to controller damage? Hypnotizing Lights is the only thing touched.

 Yeah this round, there have been many trollers primary damg nerfs over the last 2 years.

 

Edited Monday at 06:12 PM by Moghedien

[PyroBeetle]

1 hour ago, admiralnorman said:

I've joined a few of the very end game hard level content. The teams need a typical structure and control is 100% needed. They are pretty hard to find though, not really broadcasting unless filling a dps slot. I believe there are discords.

 

But yeah, every AT is needed, every roll crucial. Fights have mechanics, it's all there.

 

2 minutes ago, Moghedien said:

That leaves a class with a pretty useless primary endgame and a toned down secondary compared to corr and defenders.

Apart from flavor Controllers ad nothing to the endgame thats is needed or other classes cant do way better...

The fact of the matter is I dont think anybody ever has complained about controls in a group setting. Are the necessary, no, are they always useful, yes. I have never been turned down from a group for running a controller, regardless of the damage output. I would also argue that even after the changes you could solo effectively without procs on a Fire/Kin and be pretty quick about it too.

 

On the other hand, before I stopped running my proc bombed Pyro/Marine controller, he could effectively solo just about all content, pretty much as fast as most PUGs, except for the Star content. He did so much damage so quickly for the Halloween missions on +4/8 he didnt stealth ti the end, he just killed to the end and made it through the portal before the robots spawned. Sometimes I would let the robots spawn just to have more to kill.  In short, it made teaming irrelevant, and actually harmful most times outside of all incarnate groups, which I dont think anybody will argue is the point for a MMO.

[skoryy]

8 minutes ago, Moghedien said:

controls are absolutely redundant

 

Join a Hami.

Fight a Paragon Protector.

Have more than one control AT on the AV. (We once had Dr. Vazh on permanent lock down in a Posi 2, it was hilarious.)

 

Controls are more relevant in CoH than in pretty much any other game. Purple supremacy, yo.