Which secondary has the highest end recovery?

[KaizenSoze]

I have been tinkering with the Ice blast set on defenders, corrupters, and sentinels. But I want the highest damage, so looking at blasters.

 

The problem has always been end, cycling through my powers on bosses quickly runs down my end.

 

So, which blaster secondary has the highest recovery? Actually, three questions.

 

Best passive recovery, toggles/auto/self click?

Best active recovery, boosts from hitting mobs?

 

Or the best secondary for Ice blast? In case I am overlooking some nice synergy.

[Uun]

I can't speak to what's best, but I have an Ice/Time and I never run out of end. Temporal Healing (I think that's the right name) is a toggle that provides end recovery equal to 2x Stamina.

[Eirwen]

Ice secondary has Frigid Protection that adds +end Recovery and also Absorb and has no cost.   The synergy with ICE/ICE is amazing. you will get 2 boosts. And if you really want the best, go ICE/ICE/ICE.

[Winter]

Ice Manipulation definitely pairs well with Ice Blast, since the secondary effects will all stack very quickly.

 

In terms of providing you the best end recovery, you probably want /Electric.  Force of Thunder grants you a 60 second recovery boost, on par with the other blaster secondary clicks that give "sustain."  But the set also comes with Power Sink, which allows you to replenish your own end while draining your enemies. 

[natewest1987]

I run a ice/fire/fire blaster and chain AOE attacks in fire farms.  The only time I ever even think about endurance is after casting burnout... otherwise the bar barely moves, even with full toggles.  Might want to take a look at your slots or switch up incarnates.  that said, the /fire aoe mana drain takes me to instant and is always up if I ever needed it. 

[Hopeling]

Every secondary has a Sustain power which gives a pretty ridiculous amount of endurance. Energy gets perma-Conserve Power (118% endredux, 3x as much as Cardic), /Mental gets Drain Psyche (one of the very few things in the game that can literally hardcap your recovery stat), and the rest get an enhanceable +50% recovery (ie, twice as strong as Stamina) in a toggle or easily-perma click power, which will put you over 4 end/sec recovery with just SOs and no accolades.

 

Basically, any Blaster secondary can support an Ice Blast attack chain pretty easily.

[Uun]

1 hour ago, Hopeling said:

Every secondary has a Sustain power which gives a pretty ridiculous amount of endurance. Energy gets perma-Conserve Power (118% endredux, 3x as much as Cardic), /Mental gets Drain Psyche (one of the very few things in the game that can literally hardcap your recovery stat), and the rest get an enhanceable +50% recovery (ie, twice as strong as Stamina) in a toggle or easily-perma click power, which will put you over 4 end/sec recovery with just SOs and no accolades.

 

Basically, any Blaster secondary can support an Ice Blast attack chain pretty easily.

The sustain powers were never on live, were they? I played a lot of blasters and would have noticed.

[Hopeling]

Right, they were an i24 feature and never made it to live.

[Midnight Mystique]

Its funny, everyone who has replied so far has touted their favorite secondary but none of them actually answered your question directly by giving numbers/info on performance. I took a look at all the numbers in character creation as well as on a few of my blasters, here is a list of the sustain powers in each of the secondaries:

 

Atomic Manipulation: Level 20 Metabolic Acceleration(toggle, +225% regen, +50% recovery, +20% recharge)

Devices: Level 20 Field Operative(toggle, +stealth, +225% regen, +50% rec, +1.75 def)

Darkness Manipulation: Level 20 Touch of the Beyond( Single target attack, 10 sec rech, 80' range, mag 3 fear, -10.5% to hit, +225% regen, +50% rec for 60 sec)

Energy Manipulation: Level 16 Energize(click power, 120sec base recharge, 60 sec duration, 80% end reduction, 225% regen, small heal)

Electric Manipulation: Level 20 Force of Thunder (PBAoE stun+kb, 30 sec base recharge, +225% regen/+50% rec for 60 sec)

Fire Manipulation: Level 20 Cauterize(PBAoE Damage aura toggle + small heal, 225% regen, 50% rec)

Ice Manipulation: Level 10 Frigid Protection(30'r PBAoE slow toggle, +50% rec, 5.13 absorb tick)

Martial Combat: Level 20 Reaction time(30'r PBAoE slow toggle, +run/fly/jump spd, +50% rec, 5.13 absorb tick)

Mental Manipulation: Level 20 Drain Psyche(PBAoE Click, base recharge 2 min, 10'r, 10 target max, -250% reg/rec to targets, +75% reg/rec per target for 30 sec)

Ninja Training: L20 Kuni-in Toh(Click, 3m 20 sec recharge, 3m 30 sec duration, +225% regen, +50% rec, 7% psi resistance, 3.8 fear prot)

Plant Manipulation: L20 Wild Fortress(toggle, +50% rec, 3.15 confuse protection, 5.13 absorb tick)

Tactical Arrow: Level 20 Eagle Eye(toggle, +20% Acc, +120% perception, +225% regen, +50% rec)

Temporal Manipulation: L20 Temporal Health(toggle, 2.05 + 5.13 absorb tick, +50% recovery, resistance to slows and  regen debuffs).

 

Some notes on these - for all the powers that offer 225% regen, only half can be enhanced.  The toggles that give you 5.13 absorb tick result in a pulsing absorb shield that renews itself about every 3 seconds and is good for about 30hp of damage at around L20 (as observed on my /ice and /martial combat blasters) with only a single L20 heal IO slotted in the power. I have no idea how well the tick heal on Cauterize performs but considering that you waste every tick that occurs when you have full health, it strikes me as a bit less effective than the other powers.

 

Basically all the powers are roughly the same when it comes to end recovery - all of them give you +50% end recovery except for Drain Psyche, which gives you a variable amount based on the # of targets you hit, and Energize which gives you End Reduction rather than recovery. So to answer the question you originally asked (" which blaster secondary has the highest recovery? ") is probably energy manipulation - as an 80% end reduction on all your powers is FAR more effective than even the huge amount of end rec Drain Psyche could give you if you hit the 10 target max. Energize is also fairly easy to make perma - 3 L25 recharge reduction IO's and its up every minute. Now, I don't actually like energize - the sound the power made firing off every 60 seconds drove me crazy and I ended up deleting the fire/energy blaster that I used to test the secondary out but that's personal preference, the performance of the power is great.

 

Ultimately all the secondaries have good end recovery and either a nice regen boost or some other hp recovery/dam prevention method, so its really up the other things each secondary offers. I like Tactical arrow for the thematic fit with archery but I also like Ice manipulation for the huge slow field (30' radius) and ice patch.

[KaizenSoze]

14 hours ago, natewest1987 said:

I run a ice/fire/fire blaster and chain AOE attacks in fire farms.  The only time I ever even think about endurance is after casting burnout... otherwise the bar barely moves, even with full toggles.  Might want to take a look at your slots or switch up incarnates.  that said, the /fire aoe mana drain takes me to instant and is always up if I ever needed it. 

The char does not exist yet. I was doing some research and end was a constant problem on my other ice chars.

 

Thank you for all the great info.

[natewest1987]

No problem.  Once you get leveled up it shouldn’t be a problem.  I can’t really speak for the leveling process though.  I PL all my toons in farms and pretty exclusively only run farm content 

[Novacat]

Barring maybe Darkness Manipulation's version, Blaster sustains pretty much all ensure that under most circumstances you never need to worry about your blue bar.

If you're both toggle-heavy AND AoE heavy AND throwing all those AoEs at an AV for several minutes then MAYBE depending on your enhancement sets you'll need to pop a blue lest you run out... unless of course there's a Sapper obviously.

 

My experience has been that, solo, the Absorb shields are a tiny bit better overall than the Regen versions against low numbers of heavy hitters, in exchange for not filling you back up as quickly between spawns. Really shine in groups with even a quarter-assed healer on the job though. In big farms Drain Psyche's rather spectacular, and the end-redux on Energize is probably the strongest blue-savings in a general sense, but really you may as well pick by theme or secondary effects (such as Frigid's delicious debuffs), they'll all do their job admirably... except for Dark. That one will let you down eventually.

Edited August 10, 2019 by Novacat

[QuiJon]

On ‎8‎/‎9‎/‎2019 at 10:46 AM, Uun said:

I can't speak to what's best, but I have an Ice/Time and I never run out of end. Temporal Healing (I think that's the right name) is a toggle that provides end recovery equal to 2x Stamina.

I have to second /time. I have a fire/time, which fire is notorious for bad end and he fights like a champ with little to no issues. How it would pair though with Ice I don't know. I choose /time because I thought it looked fun to have  a blaster with a AOE disorient with the fire AOE potential. And it just got even more fun when I added Bonfire with a kb to kd IO in it. 

[Jeneki]

On 8/9/2019 at 4:59 PM, Uun said:

The sustain powers were never on live, were they? I played a lot of blasters and would have noticed.

They were scheduled for Issue 24 on live.  https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Issue_24

[Sovera]

Well, as someone who just came from Justin I can say it's not quiteeeee as portrayed here. The only thing lacking was turning my IOs into superior versions and having incarnates (Justin's new about-to-go-live version turned off incarnates and free merits for reasons), but HD showed the difference between superior and normal versions as one point in endurance cost. @HelenCarnate had a good tip regarding using influence to buy merits which saved the day. I'm still without incarnates but at least I could test the character further.

 

So, I was testing a Rad/Atomic and had Metabolic Acceleration slotted with five Panacea and the Performance Shifter proc. Stamina with another Performance Shifter proc plus an endurance IO, Health with the Miracle and Panacea proc.

 

It took only two packs in a fire farm to be nearly empty but I'm running 8 toggles. I switched the Panacea and the Performance Shift for six Efficacy and its better. Still going to half endurance but it recharges well enough. Pity about hte loss of the regen/panacea since without a heal I sort of expect to lean on the regen. Perhaps Musculature with the endurance recovery boost + not running Tough and Assault will be enough to tip the scales.

[ZorkNemesis]

From what i've seen, /Time's sustain has a solid end recovery on a free toggle that also gives a minor amount of absorb every few seconds.  My Rad/Time never runs out of end unless i'm fighting things that drain it.  Also, /Energy has a click End Discount in the form of Energize.  For 1 minute, you get a 54% endurance discount which will completely erase your end issues, and you get a minor heal and regen buff on top of it; with some global recharge and/or a couple recharge IOs you can easily make Energize permanent.  On my Archery/Energy I never run out of end as long as I remember to Energize when it's up (I have Boost Range on auto instead), even with running a full Leadership set, Stealth, CJ, and Scorpion Shield.  Hell, even when I forget to turn off Super Jump i'm not running out of end.

[Call Me Awesome]

You can just roll an Archery/TacArrow and never worry about endurance.  It's the lightest combination on your end bar I know of... mine is always flying, using all three leadership toggles and only has the default slot in Stamina.  It takes a long drawn out AV fight for my end to drop below 50%.  The character plays like a cross between a Blaster and Controller... slightly less raw damage output than my Fire/Energy blaster but far more control, both hard and soft.