When you think someone is playing their AT "wrong" ...

[DR_Mechano]

3 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

When it's obvious, I just go about whatever it was I was already doing, we're on the same page. And if the leader reveals they are the control freak after the fact, I just leave. Don't make a big show about it or argue or have any parting words, just leave and let them do their thing. 

 

And forget the blackjack! This reminds me that I need to stop being lazy and find my old forum avatar.

Alright, fair enough, I get your point. Still if the person doesn't listen to simple instructions and goes off in a huff then that's just them being a bit of a babby. If they can't listen to 'Ok hold back, we're going to try to single pull the Archvillains so we don't get all four at once' and proceeds to dive in and die, costing the entire team a Master of badge...then they're being a douchebag. That isn't being a control freak, that's planning but some people treat planning as being a control freak.

[MunkiLord]

2 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Alright, fair enough, I get your point. Still if the person doesn't listen to simple instructions and goes off in a huff then that's just them being a bit of a babby. If they can't listen to 'Ok hold back, we're going to try to single pull the Archvillains so we don't get all four at once' and proceeds to dive in and die, costing the entire team a Master of badge...then they're being a douchebag. That isn't being a control freak, that's planning but some people treat planning as being a control freak.

I totally get wanting to use some sort of patience/strategy for the more potentially challenging battles. I don't like it, but I get it, and I'll do my part. But because it's just not my thing, I don't generally even join Master attempts. I think I've got maybe five of them total, ever. And one of those was solo(ITF), and another was on Apex when I didn't even know we were going for the Master badge.

 

I'm also one of those people that was disappointed when xp debt was made trivial because I liked showing off my shiny debt badges. So Scrapperlock is my default regardless of the AT or game I'm playing. Which I think is why Horizon Dawn Zero has frustrated me the last few days, I don't think Scrapperlock is the ideal way to play that game.

[PaxArcana]

1 hour ago, DR_Mechano said:

Here's the thing, unless I am in the same zone as you, I can't see your powerset choices and would YOU do the common courtesy of letting me know you're playing some strange 'healing only' Empath? No you probably won't...

If I wound up on a team with you ... yes, actually, I would let everyone know if I was playing in a way other than the expected/default manner.  Heck, I generally give a quick rundown of my usual modus operandi even if I am "playing it straight".

 

I also look over my new team-mate's archetype, sets, and powers.  Not to critique them, but rather, to know what to expect of them - so I won't assume they're going to do XYZ, and then be surprised when Y isn't on the menu after all.

[Razor Cure]

Maybe there is no such thing as playing Wrong..but there sure is such a thing as 'playing a toon stupidly.' Going to use an example I have seen on Torchbearer, whose name shall be kept under wraps.

A fire/emp troller. Nothing wrong there, even though I dislike emp trollers, as they tend to do too much trolling, and basically no emping. His powers were fine but..NO fort, cm, or adrenline boost. Two of teh best buffs in game. Doesnt take em. SO I asked him..politely. ANd he said he didn't 'like' them.'

Ok maybe he is new, or whatever. Then a month later I see him again, Vet level 56. 56! And still no fort or ab.

Granted, maybe he truly doesnt like those buffs. But then WHY play an emp? Make a rad if aall you are donig is aoe healing (he didnt use the RA's auras on the entire tf, so I assume he doesnt 'like' those either).

 

[DSorrow]

I honestly disagree with the statement that there isn't such a thing as "playing an AT wrong". In my opinion you can definitely play an AT wrong, but fortunately it doesn't matter most of the time. I wouldn't send a tell to a player phrased "you're doing it wrong" because it's not constructive to be an ass about it, but I'd definitely think "yep, all sorts of wrong" and ask/advise if I felt like that would make a positive difference. 

 

CoX gives us an immense freedom to make characters both from a customization point of view and the difficulty level so there is room for all sorts of concept builds, but that just puts a responsibility on two parties:

• if you play a wacky concept build, don't get all pissy when your no attacks + Aid Other + Field Medic + Spirit Ward buffer Brute gets criticized
• if you're building a team, be up front about what you want and don't be an ass about asking/advising players with odd builds

Generally if I'm leading a team, especially if on one of my finished level 50s, I don't have to care about most of my team. My characters are very optimized and there's pretty much a 100% chance I'll get at least 3-4 other good players in the team anyway and that's enough to finish just about anything in the game, no matter what the remaining couple of players are doing. I'll still check my teammates' builds to set my own expectations and appropriate difficulty settings as in my experience bad builds usually correlate with bad behavior and lack of awareness.

[Alty]

Read through this whole thread... 

Y'all are interesting...

 

I learned that Petless MM is the new scapegoat for crappy teams. I also wonder exactly how many Petless MMs are even around for everyone to suddenly be saddled with them. 🤔

 

I learned that telling anyone 'you're doing it wrong' is pretty much the same as asking 'why are you playing that way' because both come from the same block of what is correct and incorrect.

 

One is just an open ended question. It still requires the questioner to judge the answer as good or bad and allows them to easily interject their views on an AT while disguising it as an equitable conversation. 

 

I also learned that it is nobody's business why a player plays or builds they way they do. Don't tell them they're wrong and don't ask why to just politely tell them they're wrong either. 

 

In the end though, it's pretty simple... 

 

Adapt by changing team tactics or remove the player. Expressing AT/build/play opinions is not required 

 

Enjoy the game. 😊

Edited August 28, 2019 by Alty
Fixing my bad habit of tossing punctuation around willy-nilly like confetti.

[Nayeh]

I used to play other games at a pretty competitive level and carried certain expectations of players and even provided coaching. Over time I chilled out and simply let people play however they please.

 

The only thing that irks me is how quick players are to suggest an active support line such as Kinetics. It's astonishing how often I run into a Kinetic and begrudgingly avoid asking for Speed Boost refreshment despite constantly running out of endurance or having to manage endurance while knowing this buff alone would alleviate those issues all together. I would say 1/3 of the time I have a Kinetic that does not actively provide Speed Boost or useful Transference/Transfusions. I never say anything to them. I just mentally countdown the time that elapses until I get the buff.

 

I get it. Kinetics is amazing. Stop throwing it out there as the "best" secondary Controller line for newer players that aren't accustomed to that.

[jubakumbi]

Wow, what a bunch of judgemental players.

[Ironblade]

3 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

Wow, what a bunch of judgemental players.

[subbacultchas]

I don't generally criticize builds. If I have a friend who six slots stamina, I'll point out that they are wasting slots, but let it go with that. If they are having fun, I don't care much.

But I've got a friend who I am struggling with right now. He runs a tank where one of his main forms of mitigation, instead of getting his resistances near capped and adding melee defense, is using whirlwind with kb to kd in it. I can live with that, although he will hit a wall with kb resistant mobs smothering him eventually. But he's six slotted his resistances, and six slotted whirlwind and spine burst, and severely underslotted his attacks because he thinks his damage is too low so he might as well not attack. It's killing me keeping quiet on this, because I have to pick up his slack when he's herding groups and just sitting there with whirlwind, spine burst auto, and quills. Thus his aggro gets stolen easily, he dies more often than the rest of the team, and all of us are having to be super active and aware because of his damned near attackless auto build.

We've talked about it a lot, but I can't get him to see how it affects others. For him its fun and he can do other things, and I don't think he understands it puts more work on his teammates, and my stalker ends up trying to tank when he invariably goes down.

[Alty]

7 hours ago, Nayeh said:

 

I get it. Kinetics is amazing. Stop throwing it out there as the "best" secondary Controller line for newer players that aren't accustomed to that.

As a kinetics lover... (useless kin expert puffery here: ) Meaning that not only are a large portion of my alts kins but I've been the leader of an all Kinetics SG for years on live and currently here

 

... and even *I* know it's not *the best* for every controller...now, every defender, mebby.... 🤔 😁😉

Edited August 27, 2019 by Alty

[PaxArcana]

Six-slotting his resistances?  Are we talking Sets, or just plain +Resistance enhancements...?

 

If it's the latter, maybe sit him down at a computer, and show him how little he's getting from the 5th and 6th (and probably 4th) enhancement.  Also explain Gauntlet to him.

 

Or suggest he try out a Brute - whose damage is worth slotting, but who're almost as survival-strong as Tanks - to see if he has even more fun with that.  🙂

[subbacultchas]

I honestly don't know. He refuses to use Pines so I'm not sure whats in there. I did suggest he use Unbreakable Guard I think from res sets, as the 4th slot gives respectable melee defense, and I think he might have used a couple. He doesn't use the two +def set ios in resist, so I'm really unsure what he's got in any of the other slots. Hopefully not -end, since he's spines/rad and /rad doesn't often need more reduction because of massive +recovery.

I think I might just sit down with him Friday night (it's our board game night) and physically look at his slottings.

Edited August 27, 2019 by subbacultchas

[MunkiLord]

That might be my favorite Tank ever lol. Don't get me wrong, I get why it causes issues. But picturing this in my mind made me laugh in a good way. 

[subbacultchas]

Dude. It is hella-fun to watch, I giggle most of the nights we play. You're watching a twirling whirlwind that just zaps around the room flinging thorns at everything.

[MunkiLord]

If he insists on playing that way, then suggest(meaning tell) him to at least put some procs into some of that stuff. The unique -res proc is a good one to start with. What primary is this Tank?

[subbacultchas]

Rad Armor/Spines.  I've suggested procs, but he's pretty broke and I can't afford to bankroll a friend like that long term.

Edited August 27, 2019 by subbacultchas

[MunkiLord]

If he's willing to use Pine's and come up with a useable build, or at least let someone design a build for him, I will donate 500 million to the cause. The only thing I want in return is some sort of update on how this plays out if he's willing to try. And I'm not talking about a normal build either(unless that is what he wants). I mean a build with his preferred playstyle, but more effective. I find this fascinating and I would love to see this become something actually workable, even though it will never be top end.

[subbacultchas]

I will mention it to him tonight lol. He will be amused at minimum. I'd offer the same but new 50 alt needs money 

[Razia]

I never tell people how to play and I never kick anyone when I am leader. I do leave teams though if there are players I don't get along with their playstyle. I am glad that AoE Immobs don't prevent KB anymore. Can't say how many teams I left on live because of the Ice Controller using ice slick and then immediately using his Aoe Immob afterwards. I think the main reason I left, wasn't that they were doing this, but that they weren't realizing it themselves what they were actually doing.

[Trademarked Name]

As a player for about 9 months before the shut-down, and now 4 mos. into Homecoming, my first character was to recreate my favorite AT from b4: An AR/Dev blaster. It literally took me a month of face-planting and probably 400 comments from ad hoc team members saying the words "You're too squishy to be running in like that". I didn't understand what I was doing wrong and misunderstanding what they were implying.  If they could read the thought bubble above my head they would see: "I'm not running in! I'm like 20 feet away from that Freakshow mob! What are they talking about?"

"You want me to stop engaging?", "You wan me to leave the team?" No....idiot, they meant you are getting too close to the charcoal brickettes, that's why you keep getting your sausage burned! I wasn't running in to tank, but I was WAY too close to enemy mobs...20 feet away for some groups is up in their grill! 

What someone should have said to me is "USE YOUR INSANE RANGE". As an AR blaster, range is my strongest attribute. Once I realized I could stand back a literal block and a half away from an enemy and snipe them to death, the whole game changed for me. When soloing, you can pop-off individuals with repeated shots without aggroing neighbors. And even when they do aggro, you've given yourself several "shots of opportunity" to take down the heavy hitters before they get into their range of you. And if they are melee opponents...forget it. Twisty tunnels and short hallways were, of course, the bane of my existence from that point on but not impossible because I had basically been training myself in short-range combat for an entire month.

Once I learned some more of how the AI worked, I was then doing my own eyerolling with teams. EX: I'm an AR blaster and we're doing +4 enemies, and they are like "Can anyone Pull some small numbers?" and I'm like "I can snipe." <-a perfectly valid way to pull a single mob or sometimes it may just pull an individual from tightly packed multiple mobs and do so well outside of their perception range. But no, the group decision was " Let's have the tank who has very short range, run up to within range and Taunt the tightly packed mobs and then run back to us."  And they couldn't figure out why 4 mobs of 10 were running back chasing the Tank. 

And I'm seeing comments like: "How many of them did you taunt?" (SMH) At that point, you should have just had someone toss a TAoE and hope for the best. You at least would have done some initial damage.

But what I have learned since then is that it's not always obvious of HOW you should be playing an AT, and the advice that one person gives you is possibly going to be skewed to their perspective and power abilities. Maybe range is the AR blaster's best attribute, but if you ask a fire blaster or AR with stronger secondaries will say "wtf are you talking about?" We might even have 60% of our powers slotted alike but what works for me is not working for them.

One of the craziest things (and TBH so WONDEREFUL) about this game is how it is at its core a game of Rock/paper/scissors/grenade/spear/toaster/stufffed-animal/rocket-launcher/jar of pickles/sharknado....ad infinitum. 

I started playing a Dominator the other day (earth/earth) to recreate a childhood superhero from my comic book collecting years as a teen...and thematically I LOVE the rock throwing, and the ground shaking, and the way the pavement cracks like it was struck by a semi dropped from a mile up in the air. It brings back that nostalgia of reading the character from the comics in a wonderful way that I simply cannot convey fully in words. But at level 17 (and with my other veterans supplying him with ATOs, and PVP partial sets), he still face-plants A LOT even at -1. 

He doesn't do a lot of damage and +1's don't seem to be affected by his "Domination" ability much at all. What am I doing wrong? I don't know. It possibly power-choice. Because I'm going thematic (No earth effects? I don't want that power!) and probably skipping a lot of beneficial combos. He can sort of "dish it out" with +0's. but he can't "take it", especially from +1s.

How am I playing him wrong? I don't know but I'm slowly learning. Things I learned this week:

1) Immobilizing an enemy at range is ineffectual a LOT of the time. Many ranged opponents never had any intention of ever running up on you. Their AI is to stand back and shoot you to bits/drain you. You gave up your attack of opportunity to just make them aware of your (team's) presence because they are just as happy to be in that stone cage as not be.

2) Holding is where it's at. It gives you more time and a warm fuzzy feeling when an opponent is locked down and helpless. And really more time is what my guy needs. Most of your control stufff is DoT.  The few high damage attacks are single target and you need that time for powers to recharge. Time to think about your decisions in life, your slotting options and power choices and most importantly, what are you eating for dinner?

3) He's about as squishy as a blaster. Stop aggroing EVERYTHING IN THE ROOM! 

So what is the Earth/Earth Dom best attribute? Patience maybe? I don't know yet, but I'll figure it out eventually. So far the AT forums haven't given me the wisdom I require. WIth the updates that were just made to Dominators it may improve my experience, but for right now I'm still having fun. Like a kid reading a comic-book that came to life. 

4) Mad respect for people that +4 Farm with Dominators/Controllers. 

Edited August 28, 2019 by Rocketeur

[Coyote]

4 hours ago, Rocketeur said:

But at level 17 (and with my other veterans supplying him with ATOs, and PVP partial sets), he still face-plants A LOT even at -1. 

... What am I doing wrong?

 

You've made a terrible mistake. I can't think of anything worse to do than to be Level 17. 😛

Because... at 18 you get Earthquake, and that's a great benefit. The mobs will be falling down, a lot. Their ToHit will be debuffed, pretty noticeably. And their Defense will be debuffed, so your controls and attacks will hit more.

In short, it's a big boost to the character's abilities. 4 slots of Dark Watcher's for the 5% Recharge bonus, and a 5th for the Force Feedback +Recharge. Don't delay, buy now 😛

[Trademarked Name]

29 minutes ago, Coyote said:

 

You've made a terrible mistake. I can't think of anything worse to do than to be Level 17. 😛

Because... at 18 you get Earthquake, and that's a great benefit. The mobs will be falling down, a lot. Their ToHit will be debuffed, pretty noticeably. And their Defense will be debuffed, so your controls and attacks will hit more.

In short, it's a big boost to the character's abilities. 4 slots of Dark Watcher's for the 5% Recharge bonus, and a 5th for the Force Feedback +Recharge. Don't delay, buy now 😛

You must have respec'd and taken the power of Mind Reading because you just answered the question I posted in Archetype/Dominator about Earth/Earth dominators.

[Myrmidon]

6 hours ago, Rocketeur said:

One of the craziest things (and TBH so WONDEREFUL) about this game is how it is at its core a game of Rock/paper/scissors/grenade/spear/toaster/stufffed-animal/rocket-launcher/jar of pickles/sharknado....ad infinitum.

You win the Internet today for this.🤣

[PaxArcana]

Truly, "Rock/Paper/Scissors/Grenade" is my new favorite thing.  😄