Make enemies brave, less runners please!

[Warlawk]

What it says in the title. I've been leveling a corruptor, some solo and some in a group. While grouped there is usually enough taunt and lockdown to keep runners strictly under control. When soloing on high notoriety it feels like half of every spawn just scatters to the wind if you cannot flat lock it down. This really feels like an outdated mechanic intended to forcefully encourage grouping.

 

I mean having snipers keep some space and things like that is all good, and occasional runners are fine but when it is the majority of every single spawn just trying to scatter to the hills, it gets old fast.

 

I'm sure there will be plenty of feedback disagreeing, but I would still like to see some discussion on it at least.

[kelly Rocket]

I hate to say it, but this sounds like "Make enemies stupid plz" to me. Because generally they run when they're heavily outmatched, which I mean... they should?

[Freedom Frank]

If they aggro'd other enemies when they came back, I'd hate the running mechanic.  As it is, you can either wait for them to run back, or start in on the next group because one nearly-dead npc isn't going to make a difference.

[Number9]

It seems to me that in the old old days of CoH runners would often come back with other enemies. They seemed to run farther and trigger other groups. This doesnt seem to happen anymore. 

 

Is this a false memory of mine? 

 

Anyway, I like the runners, and I like them bringing friends back to the fight with them. 

[Vanden]

7 minutes ago, Number9 said:

Is this a false memory of mine?

That’s the case. NPCs can’t really interact with NPCs from different spawns. Most of the time they’re not even able to use targeted ally buffs on an NPC from a different spawn.

[Chuckers]

31 minutes ago, Number9 said:

It seems to me that in the old old days of CoH runners would often come back with other enemies. They seemed to run farther and trigger other groups. This doesnt seem to happen anymore. 

 

Is this a false memory of mine? 

 

Anyway, I like the runners, and I like them bringing friends back to the fight with them. 

I seem to remember that if you had a toggle on a runner (an aoe debuff from Dark or Rad for example), that toggle would aggro other enemies. I don't know if that still happens. 

I don't mind runners, but I really feel that Lts and Bosses should run a lot less then minions. Lts and Bosses didn't get where they were (in my mind) by running away from a fight. Minions are grunts and I can see them getting scared more often.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Chuckers

[Warlawk]

10 hours ago, kelly Rocket said:

I hate to say it, but this sounds like "Make enemies stupid plz" to me. Because generally they run when they're heavily outmatched, which I mean... they should?

If that were the case 99% of the enemies in the game should flee the second you step in the door. It isn't about "make enemies stupid" it's about addressing the vast quality of life difference between soloing with a taunt effect, and soloing without one.

 

As an example, you can see discussion occasionally in the Scrapper channel of discord where people end up not taking specific armor sets strictly because they do not offer a taunt aura which makes for a miserable solo experience.

 

As another example, the Summer Blockbuster can easily be run by any combination of ATs, as it should be. Chasing AVs around while they run at 70%+ health simple because you don't have someone with taunt is seriously annoying and often causes people to be sure they're taking a toon with taunt. This goes against the design philosophy of "bring the player, not the AT".

3 hours ago, Freedom Frank said:

If they aggro'd other enemies when they came back, I'd hate the running mechanic.  As it is, you can either wait for them to run back, or start in on the next group because one nearly-dead npc isn't going to make a difference.

 

11 hours ago, Warlawk said:

When soloing on high notoriety

This is a key part of the issue. The discussion isn't about about one nearly dead NPC, it's about how half+ of each spawn scatters if they aren't locked down.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Warlawk

[kelly Rocket]

Kill faster?

 

They only run if the fight is protracted and they don't think they can hurt you. This was specifically coded in at some point after the game launched. If you kill them fast enough, you won't get any runners (Except for the one guy coded to run in most early "overworld" groups in Atlas).  If the fight goes on for a longer time and they can obviously see that you're kicking their asses and they haven't managed to hurt you at all, they run, as anyone would in real life when fighting someone who's apparently the Terminator.

[Freedom Frank]

Warhawk, I generally play at +4/x8, I only see one or two runners from groups.  Not sure why you're seeing more.

Edited August 29, 2019 by Freedom Frank

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, Freedom Frank said:

Warhawk, I generally play at +4/x8, I generally only see one or two runners from my groups.  Not sure why you're seeing more.

Maybe Warhawk's costume is scarier than yours?  🤣

[kelly Rocket]

6 minutes ago, Freedom Frank said:

Warhawk, I generally play at +4/x8, I only see one or two runners from groups.  Not sure why you're seeing more.

Probably a Scrapper specific issue tbh... They have enough damage and survivability to solo with the difficulty turned way up, but they're largely single-target focused, so chewing through a spawn takes them a while, which triggers the "Hey, we've been fighting this guy for a minute, 5 of us are down and we haven't scratched him, fuck this, I'm out!" logic.

[HelenCarnate]

On my blaster when solo, AVs run at near full health and I am constantly chasing them down to used my high damage melee attacks.  

[kelly Rocket]

13 minutes ago, HelenCarnate said:

On my blaster when solo, AVs run at near full health and I am constantly chasing them down to used my high damage melee attacks.  

AVs are different.

[Jeuraud]

4 hours ago, Number9 said:

It seems to me that in the old old days of CoH runners would often come back with other enemies. They seemed to run farther and trigger other groups. This doesnt seem to happen anymore. 

 

Is this a false memory of mine? 

 

Anyway, I like the runners, and I like them bringing friends back to the fight with them. 

In EQ and DAoC, Runners would often lead to group wipes or Trains to the Zone. In CoH it's just a nuisance.

 

28 minutes ago, HelenCarnate said:

On my blaster when solo, AVs run at near full health and I am constantly chasing them down to used my high damage melee attacks.

Are they a Runner or are the playing Tactically, because they cant hurt your 45% Def butt, and they are not programed to just stand there and take your damage like in some MMOs. I haven't looked at Blasters, in well years, but isn't there a Single Target Imob in every set?

 

Runners in CoH serve no tactical purpose. All they do is reduce XP which served a purpose for the company that was trying to get you to put out 15 bucks a month.

[RikOz]

12 hours ago, kelly Rocket said:

I hate to say it, but this sounds like "Make enemies stupid plz" to me. Because generally they run when they're heavily outmatched, which I mean... they should?

I've boggled a few times at orange-conning lieutenants running away from me. One time I had Morana, a red-conning elite boss in the KR Skulls storyline, try to run away from me.

[HelenCarnate]

1 hour ago, Jeuraud said:

In EQ and DAoC, Runners would often lead to group wipes or Trains to the Zone. In CoH it's just a nuisance.

 

Are they a Runner or are the playing Tactically, because they cant hurt your 45% Def butt, and they are not programed to just stand there and take your damage like in some MMOs. I haven't looked at Blasters, in well years, but isn't there a Single Target Imob in every set?

 

Runners in CoH serve no tactical purpose. All they do is reduce XP which served a purpose for the company that was trying to get you to put out 15 bucks a month.

Yeah but it sits unused. When other mobs run I just shoot them, they die and I move on. May have to put my imob on my tray for when I feel like soloing TFs.

[RikOz]

I stopped even bothering with my immob on my fire/fire blaster because it never, ever worked when I really needed it to. And now in her 40s enemies go down too quickly to worry about Ring of Fire.

 

EDIT: LOL, my lvl 19 Ninja Blade stalker just had to chase a same-level Outcast all over Steel Canyon. C'mere and let me stab you, you crook!

Edited August 30, 2019 by RikOz

[Razor Cure]

I agree with this. I was soloing Tarikoss SF on my MM. Infernal could hardly hurt me, but kept running away, making the fight take sooo long. It wasn't in any way moer challenging, just tiresome. a Hero class enemy shouldnt run from a single enemy.

[MunkiLord]

25 minutes ago, Razor Cure said:

I agree with this. I was soloing Tarikoss SF on my MM. Infernal could hardly hurt me, but kept running away, making the fight take sooo long. It wasn't in any way moer challenging, just tiresome. a Hero class enemy shouldnt run from a single enemy.

THIS

 

I mean it's cool if AVs move out of my Burn patch or away from Blizzard, that makes sense. But don't tuck tail and run half way across the map.

[esotericist]

Taunt auras don't necessarily help.

 

I have a Staff Fighting/Ice Armor brute, and even when I have the taunt aura (Chilling Embrace) on I frequently have to deal with enemies running before I finish off a spawn. It's frustratingly frequent.

[Warlawk]

I am glad to see I'm not the only one having the issue. I'm not saying they should just line up to die, but...

 

4 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

It wasn't in any way moer challenging, just tiresome.

This, so much this.

[kelly Rocket]

If we're talking about AVs/Monsters, I sort of agree, I'd like them to run around like headless chickens a lot less. Especially as they're not actually running from you, but still fighting, just running around while doing so.

 

But I have no problem with the normal spawn enemies running if a fight goes on and they aren't making any progress towards killing you.

[Razor Cure]

1 hour ago, kelly Rocket said:

If we're talking about AVs/Monsters, I sort of agree, I'd like them to run around like headless chickens a lot less. Especially as they're not actually running from you, but still fighting, just running around while doing so.

 

But I have no problem with the normal spawn enemies running if a fight goes on and they aren't making any progress towards killing you.

I would LOVE, love, utterly love that to happen in Fire Farms..for no other reason than thinking farmers should die..It would be hilarious if they dived into a mob, the mob goes 'oh shit, we have fire attacks, he is fire armour, blow this for a lark!' and all just headed for the hills.

[kelly Rocket]

10 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

I would LOVE, love, utterly love that to happen in Fire Farms..for no other reason than thinking farmers should die..It would be hilarious if they dived into a mob, the mob goes 'oh shit, we have fire attacks, he is fire armour, blow this for a lark!' and all just headed for the hills.

That actually would happen, except that Spines/Fire Brutes tend to do enough AoE to kill spawns quite fast, and the fact that they're also using Mag 4 taunt to overcome the running.

[Haijinx]

On 8/29/2019 at 10:23 AM, Vanden said:

That’s the case. NPCs can’t really interact with NPCs from different spawns. Most of the time they’re not even able to use targeted ally buffs on an NPC from a different spawn.

Would be cool if they could.   In fact would make a good suggestion towards the "this game is too easy" problem.