Building the unloved: SR/Katana

kenlon · September 9, 2019

After reading through the Flavor of the Month thread, over in General Discussion (https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/9495-flavour-of-the-month-level-50/), I was inspired to make characters using the least popular powersets for each AT. For Tanker, that turned out to be Super Reflexes/Claws, but I already have a Claws brute, so I made a SR/Katana instead.

And dear sweet Jesus, SR is obscenely good for tankers. Dead easy to slot, requires so little slot investment that you have plenty to use on your attacks, and even with some intentionally less optimal power picks (for concept reasons), he is going to be a BEAST. Just about hits the incarnate defense cap in all categories, and has significant resists to boot, as well as excellent HP regen to keep him up through chip damage.

Just standing there, no procs going, no scaling damage resists from low HP, he has the following:

59.6% Melee Def

53.4 Ranged Def

54.9% AoE Def

47.5% S/L Res

29% F/C Res

14% E/N Res

23.8% Toxic/Psi Res

332% regen, 114.3% max HP.

Why on God's green and fuzzy earth is SR not more popular?

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.3
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

The Watcher's Eye: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Secondary Power Set: Katana
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Concealment
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Focused Fighting

(A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
(3) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
(3) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime
(23) Reactive Defenses - Scaling Resist Damage
(23) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)

Level 1: Sting of the Wasp

(A) Hecatomb - Damage
(45) Hecatomb - Damage/Recharge
(46) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(46) Hecatomb - Accuracy/Recharge
(46) Hecatomb - Damage/Endurance

Level 2: Focused Senses

(A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
(5) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
(5) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 4: Agile

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(7) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(7) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 6: Practiced Brawler

(A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 8: Dodge

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 10: Flashing Steel

(A) Obliteration - Damage
(40) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge
(42) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge
(43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(43) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 12: Evasion

(A) Reactive Defenses - Defense
(13) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance
(13) Reactive Defenses - Defense/Endurance/RechargeTime

Level 14: Dragon's Roar

(A) Mocking Beratement - Taunt
(33) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge
(34) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Recharge/Range
(34) Mocking Beratement - Accuracy/Recharge
(34) Mocking Beratement - Taunt/Range
(37) Mocking Beratement - Recharge

Level 16: Gambler's Cut

(A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage
(25) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance
(27) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge
(27) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(31) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
(48) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance/Recharge

Level 18: Lucky

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(19) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 20: Hasten

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(21) Recharge Reduction IO
(43) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 22: Build Up

(A) Recharge Reduction IO
(25) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 24: Super Speed

(A) Run Speed IO

Level 26: Quickness

(A) Run Speed IO

Level 28: The Lotus Drops

(A) Armageddon - Damage
(29) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
(29) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(31) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
(31) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
(33) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage

Level 30: Kick

(A) Accuracy IO

Level 32: Tough

(A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
(33) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%

Level 35: Soaring Dragon

(A) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage
(36) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/RechargeTime
(36) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/RechargeTime
(36) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
(37) Superior Gauntleted Fist - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
(37) Superior Gauntleted Fist - RechargeTime/+Absorb

Level 38: Golden Dragonfly

(A) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage
(39) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Recharge
(39) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
(39) Superior Might of the Tanker - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(40) Superior Might of the Tanker - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
(40) Superior Might of the Tanker - Recharge/Chance for +Res(All)

Level 41: Stealth

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(42) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 44: Combat Jumping

(A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
(45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
(45) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance

Level 47: Focused Accuracy

(A) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
(48) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure
(48) HamiO:Cytoskeleton Exposure

Level 49: Physical Perfection

(A) Healing IO
(50) Healing IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO
(50) Endurance Modification IO

Level 1: Brawl

(A) Empty

Level 1: Gauntlet

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

Bill Z Bubba · September 9, 2019

5 minutes ago, kenlon said:

Why on God's green and fuzzy earth is SR not more popular?

My guess? Old beliefs not quite bound to reality. Some don't think SR has a taunt aura, for example. SR is amazing.

Redlynne · September 10, 2019

5 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

My guess? Old beliefs not quite bound to reality.

Let 'em weep.

Haijinx · September 10, 2019

It exemplars better than most other tanker primaries also.

Contrary to assumptions, survival from level 18 up is excellent. My SR tanker made it to 50 on pugs with only 2 defeats.

Caulderone · September 10, 2019

49 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

It exemplars better than most other tanker primaries also.

Very true.

Built in just the right way, an exemplar build for level 21 and under can have 45% M/R at 7 and 45% AoE by no later than 13.

That build can also include 25+S/L/F/C/T/P resists and 15+ E/N resists before scaling resists.

DrBasics · September 10, 2019

This looks like an incredibly expensive build with the superior enhancements. Maybe it's just my broke self talking though.

Heraclea · September 10, 2019

I also have a SR/Katana tanker, currently at 28. I had planned this character to use for soloing AE arcs and incarnate material. Set aside for now; SR apparently has a weaker, WP style taunt aura, and SR takes time for all the pieces to fit together. Will finish her some day.

Cutter · September 10, 2019

Likely gonna steal some of this for my SR/Rad. I need to work on my exemp-level defenses, cause through the leveling process he's only just starting to see +40% in his high 20's. Granted that's with only basic IOs.

Bill Z Bubba · September 10, 2019

This is what first caught my eye about SR on a tank. Lvl 21 and just shy of the softcap on MRA def with nothin but SOs.

kenlon · September 10, 2019

17 hours ago, DrBasics said:

This looks like an incredibly expensive build with the superior enhancements. Maybe it's just my broke self talking though.

This build is dirt cheap, relatively. My EM/Inv no-fighting-pool softcap build is loaded down with Winter enhancements to get what it needs. Now that's expensive. You could quite easily go with cheaper sets in your attacks, as long as you slot the LotG and Reactive sets in your defenses, and be super-safe as you level.

(And, since you can just buy attuned enhancements right off the AH for the same price as non-attuned ones, you can be at the def cap from very early on, level-wise.)

Edited September 10, 2019 by kenlon

Golden Azrael · September 18, 2019

I've tried rolling a SR/SJustice on beta. Specced it out for Set IOs. Inspired by this thread. 😉

Already rolled an SR/SJustice. But wanted to check out forum builds. Currently L43. SOs. Just shy of the cap at the moment. But when I respec at 44, I'll remove Elude and take Tough to add some resistance and Weave to get me past the soft cap. I'm a hover tank so I'll have a bit extra.

Can't wait to start building it out.

It's not cheap but it is potent. Past the soft cap. Decent incarnates. Perma-hasten. Packed some resistance in there. End and health are past tense in terms of issues.

I think it's about how much you want to push each AT through their glass ceiling.

Find SR/Sjustice a bit plain jain. But it's fun to play. Bone breakingly compelling.

Azrael.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Golden Azrael

ExeErdna · September 20, 2019

I'm giving this setup a try, it works well. The issue I see that people aren't playing SR as much it's not flashy until you're in the middle of hornet's nest of Longbow and nothing happens to you. Now my issue is the choice of Alphas since Agility works for the SR and Musculature works with Katana.

nihilii · September 20, 2019

23 minutes ago, ExeErdna said:

Now my issue is the choice of Alphas since Agility works for the SR and Musculature works with Katana.

I feel it's easy enough to reach even incarnate softcapped defense you're better off going Musculature. Events where you will need extra defense will be extraordinarily rare, whereas more damage tends to be helpful all the time.

quietkane · September 21, 2019

On 9/9/2019 at 3:01 PM, kenlon said:

Why on God's green and fuzzy earth is SR not more popular?

Super Reflexes, much like Invulnerability, does basically nothing except make you tougher. It doesn't debuff enemies. It doesn't deal damage. It doesn't offer any control. And the only buff it offers you is a modest attack rate boost.

Other defensive sets do other things that make the rest of the team safer even when the enemies aren't hitting you, or are using AoEs. SR does not. Some other defensive sets do things that help the team deal more damage. SR does not. Some other defensive sets help you manage your endurance. SR does not. Some other defensive sets have strong "get me out of this crappy situation" buttons. SR does not.

If your goal is to be difficult to kill so long as your enemy didn't bring Tactics, SR is a great set. If your goal is to be the unbreakable fulcrum upon which your team's damage lever turns, there are better sets than Super Reflexes.

Frostweaver · September 21, 2019

Exactly, Quietkane. I honestly don't think it should have been ported the way it was. It simply doesn't have any utility besides a moderate speed boost, nothing to help keep your team safe from the extra spawn your aggro cap cannot handle, or to help THEM deal with that stray spawn more effectively.

It is a scrapper set. Designed that way from the beginning, and porting it to tankers just makes you a scrapper with crap damage. A lot of the same arguments for willpower being a scrubby tanker apply to SR, except that at LEAST WP gets a -to-hit aura that helps the team.

Not to mention that one of the things that tankers bring to the table, being nearly unkillable, just does not apply to SR. Great, so you can ignore longbow debuffs if you so happen to be a redside Tank. That's useful for like 10 levels and rarely thereafter. To even start to come close to the realm of 'tough' tankers, you need scads of IO's to deal with your resistances.

At least ice/ has chilling embrace, which gives a hefty -damage and -recharge to get your 'stacked' mitigation types a start, as well as a rather decent heal and TWO major taunt auras. Most Ice tankers I know in 'overpull situations' can keep 3 full spawns massively debuffed and their team fairly safe, even if they are nowhere near as unkillable as a dark or electric tanker. Even EA would have been a better choice had they ported it, because at the very least it has an end drain.

SR needed a LOT of adjusting before it was ported to tankers, and it never got that adjusting. What it it get? 'lucky'. It simply isn't a good tanker primary.

That's (one of the many reasons) why it's not popular. SR as a set is very selfish, and if Tankers were selfish, they'd be Scrappers.

Edited September 21, 2019 by Frostweaver

Hyperstrike · September 21, 2019

On 9/9/2019 at 3:01 PM, kenlon said:

Why on God's green and fuzzy earth is SR not more popular?

Basically SR is kinda in the same boat as Ice. It's primarily a +Defense set with precious little in +Resist.

So, if something can reliably crack your Defenses, you're kinda screwed.

Also, being TOTALLY unhittable is problematic for aggro and enemy management.

After a short period of being unable to hit you, certain enemies will just tuck tail and run.

And since we're skinning cats here:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Secondary Power Set: Katana
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Pyre Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- Rct-Def:50(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx:50(3), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(3)
Level 1: Sting of the Wasp -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(5), Hct-Acc/Rchg:50(5), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), Hct-Dam%:50(7)
Level 2: Focused Senses -- Rct-Def:50(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx:50(9), Rct-ResDam%:50(9)
Level 4: Flashing Steel -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(15), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(17), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(19), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(19)
Level 6: Agile -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(21)
Level 8: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(21)
Level 10: Dragon's Roar -- MckBrt-Taunt:50(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg:50(23), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(23), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg:50(25), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng:50(25), MckBrt-Rchg:50(27)
Level 12: Dodge -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(27)
Level 14: Evasion -- Rct-Def:50(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx:50(29)
Level 16: Divine Avalanche -- CrsImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), CrsImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(31), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33)
Level 18: Lucky -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(33)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(33)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(34)
Level 24: Build Up -- GssSynFr--ToHit:50(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg:50(34), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx:50(34), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx:50(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx:50(36), GssSynFr--Build%:50(36)
Level 26: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(A)
Level 28: The Lotus Drops -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(37), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(37), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(37), Arm-Dam%:50(39)
Level 30: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow:50(A)
Level 32: Elude -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 35: Soaring Dragon -- CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(A), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg:50(39), CrsImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), CrsImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(40), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(40), CrsImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(40)
Level 38: Golden Dragonfly -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg:50(42), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(42), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(43), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb:50(43)
Level 41: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(43), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(45), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(45), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(45), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(46)
Level 44: Char -- UnbCns-Hold/Rchg:50(A), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg:50(46), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg:50(46), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold:50(48), UnbCns-Dam%:50(48)
Level 47: Fire Blast -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Apc-Acc/Rchg:50(50), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(50), Apc-Dam%:50(50)
Level 49: Quickness -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(11), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(11), Prv-Absorb%:50(13)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(13), EndMod-I:50(15)
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon
------------

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Bill Z Bubba · September 21, 2019

4 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Also, being TOTALLY unhittable is problematic for aggro and enemy management.

After a short period of being unable to hit you, certain enemies will just tuck tail and run.

Noticed this behavior a few times, even with my claws/fa on a fire farm after poppin lucks. But does it matter much if they run out of melee range if they're still aggroed on you?

You can see some running action here:

https://youtu.be/eajaHfL1MYM

Edited September 21, 2019 by Bill Z Bubba

Hyperstrike · September 21, 2019

8 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Noticed this behavior a few times, even with my claws/fa on a fire farm after poppin lucks. But does it matter much if they run out of melee range if they're still aggroed on you?

You can see some running action here:

https://youtu.be/eajaHfL1MYM

Yes. Because it's not like they run out of melee range, stop, and then turn around and stare angrily at you.

They just run. And depending on the enemies, they keep running until aggro and threat level dissipate.

JCMcBoo · September 25, 2019

On 9/21/2019 at 12:12 PM, Hyperstrike said:

Yes. Because it's not like they run out of melee range, stop, and then turn around and stare angrily at you.

They just run. And depending on the enemies, they keep running until aggro and threat level dissipate.

This is just another indication that tanker secondaries need to be geared more toward crowd control that allow us to actively tank and supplement our taunt auras.

Hyperstrike · September 26, 2019

2 hours ago, JCMcBoo said:

This is just another indication that tanker secondaries need to be geared more toward crowd control that allow us to actively tank and supplement our taunt auras.

Tanks are low enough damage as is.

Adding hard controls to the Aggro/Taunt soft-control mechanic would just destroy their ability to solo.

Also, it wouldn't REALLY help the running.

JCMcBoo · September 26, 2019

20 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Tanks are low enough damage as is.

Adding hard controls to the Aggro/Taunt soft-control mechanic would just destroy their ability to solo.

Also, it wouldn't REALLY help the running.

I wasn't suggesting any hard controls like holds, just a more widespread application of their damage and inherent crowd control secondaries like disorient, KB/KD, slow, etc. using Titan Weapons as the template.

Edited September 26, 2019 by JCMcBoo

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Building the unloved: SR/Katana

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