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arcane
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Cross Punch - Can it be looked at ? Not hitting many Enemies
arcane replied to plainguy's topic in Suggestions & Feedback
I’ve been messing with numbers all weekend and trying to understand what makes Cross Punch stand out. Because the DPA is still just “medium” after Boxing + Kick by my calculations, and it’s a power slot hog. And those little buffs it comes with are so tiny. So my best guess is this: it’s good for PvP / AV’s / pylons specifically because it puts the FotG proc in your single target chain as opposed to a real AoE. Likewise Laser Beam Eyes has even more “meh” numbers, but I’m guessing it’s all about the Achilles’ Heel. Are my assumptions about right here? Trying to evaluate here if I really wanna focus all my best procs on S/T on my latest tanker. -
Well considering Freezing Touch is some of the game’s best DPA - and Ice is no AoE slouch either... not sure there’s much of a need to address here.
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I’ve definitely wondered about this on multiple occasions and at a brief glance it seems like a logical thing to do.
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It sounds like you’re expecting the set to do something it doesn’t do rather than channeling what the set does really really well yes. And don’t judge those circuits until you’ve spammed them on a large team. The effects aren’t supposed to feel incredible on a single target.
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Example of the kind of thing I think you mean. My Time/Water achieves all soft caps with only Combat Jumping and Farsight. My Fire/Time requires Combat Jumping, Farsight, and Weave. Although I still don’t think the /Water is really besting the Fire/ here, this is an example of how Defenders (and Tankers) can wind up with a greater number of resources leftover to allocate to offense than Corruptors (and Brutes). The Defender here absolutely has more flexibility to slot a high number of procs. In most cases I think this just results in closing the gap between the two, but it’s not too crazy to suggest there may be cases where a greater amount of freedom to slot for offense could allow a Defender to match Corruptor damage in specific situations.
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Shock therapy’s fine. It’s insanely good at what it does actually.
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I actually thought this thread was about Seismic Smash because I read the title too quickly. This mistake seems to reinforce the “uh, perhaps a tad close to stone melee” point I am therefore going to make.
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To clarify, I certainly don’t “dislike” that Radiation Therapy is a quick-cast nuke or that Ice Arrow with 6 procs is as good an attack as any or that my Plant dom is more or less as fast at farming as a /Fire brute due in part to Creeper procs... big numbers are fun 😉. I’m just dubious as to whether or not that’s working as intended within the devs’ balance paradigm and think it’s a likely big part of the conversation if procs are a problem. But otherwise yeah thanks for the great post @aethereal 🙂
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He was saying proc bombers getting acc/end/rech was no big deal, and I was rebutting that that depends on the extent of the proc bombing. Nothing more.
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It gets a lot harder when you use so many procs that you are using very few sets. Building global recharge through other powers? Only if you have few enough proc bombs. It’s actually a very delicate balance if you take it far enough. Yeah sure anyone can load up a couple powers. When I think of my real proc monster characters, I definitely mean at least ~25 damage procs throughout the build, say 3-5 -res procs, AND all of your necessary procs from heal/def/res/endmod sets. You don’t seem to be describing the same thing. Most of my characters like that have very very little room for sets and have to move things around a lot to make it work.
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Cross Punch - Can it be looked at ? Not hitting many Enemies
arcane replied to plainguy's topic in Suggestions & Feedback
This is what I keep hearing. I only have it on one little controller. Thinking it sounds like I need to work it into my next melee. Do you always load it with procs (FF/FotG/damages) or is it better with damage enhanced? Think my elec/poison just had avalanches in it because melee defense is hard to find. -
Fair. I thought perhaps “rework” was a better word after the fact. Anyway I agree with the three items above and would only like to add one additional question: is it really considered “working as intended” that low damage APP/PPP powers can cross the line at which they become stronger than primary/secondary attacks? I don’t know and am genuinely asking Powerhouse here. In addition to AoE proc bombs, obviously Char and Dominate are primary culprits here. The specific problem is that APP’s/PPP’s have increased recharges because they are supposed to be weaker. But PPM means they really aren’t.
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We already know the HC devs are looking at procs. This thread is not a call to nerf. It is a discussion hoping to influence the nature of an already inevitable nerf.
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I like Vigor a lot on proc monsters personally. Sometimes it can be enough that you don’t need Ageless of Tactics. My DP/SR sentinel for instance has Vigor and either 3 or 4 attacks with 6 procs each. Fun to see those big stacks of numbers. My TA’s will often use it to put 6 procs in Ice Arrow and Acid Arrow. If you don’t have any reason to think about another Destiny option though (like many tankers), the typical pools plus Ageless approach is ofc great too.
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Claws and Scrappers both have relatively little to gain from procs tho. Things like my Rad/Rad defender, my DP/SR sentinel, most of my controllers? Those are gonna need total rebuilds.
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True true. I can’t run Mids (Macbook) so I basically live on hcwiki and city of data and manually calculate all my own proc rates, so perhaps I take some of that for granted.
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If Bonfire can stay as KD that’s fine, but it would have to have its tick rate / recharge etc rebalanced around comparables Ice Slick and Earthquake.
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I would also add for consideration that (1) there should be a discussion about procs on primarily damage-focused powers versus others. It’s one thing to proc bomb your 15-20 second attack. It’s another to turn powers that do zero damage into nuke-size damage. Is the latter really what the HC devs want? I don’t know. And then I would also specifically bring up (2) APP’s and PPP’s. These powers have longer recharge by default because they aren’t supposed to be as good as primaries/secondaries. But procs turn that dynamic on its head. Should there be something in place to keep these powers specifically from overperforming? What if, say, pools had their own PPM formulas vs primaries/secondaries? Just thinking out loud and adding my $0.02. Also, FWIW, I don’t think PPM is that confusing to interpret outside of pseudopet powers. Those ones tho, I have to comb through Myshkin’s threads.
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I have never used more than 4 trays. 3 is good for most toons, 4 for Trick Arrows, etc. The thought of 15 sounds plainly absurd.
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I just keep both in my tray. It’s a good thing to do anyway because there are still circumstances when location AoE is more useful than targeted (like setting up a choke point).
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Yeah I was just musing out loud with a little hint of mourning for dozens of proc monsters. Balance is good - move along people.
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Could we maybe just choose procs over balance tho? 🙂 People will make several of every AT eventually anyway.
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I have never noticed anything of the sort across 5 /fire brutes with a total of >2K vet levels between them.
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Your thread appeared to be interested in bringing greater parity to Seeds of Confusion vs Mass Confusion recharges. There’s two ways to do that.
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Eh, they could still balance Seeds recharge and we’d be fine. Carrion Creepers still being insanely powerful, for starters. I basically agree with you that Seeds could afford to be less stupidly OP.
