arcane

No. “Good balance” does not mean Super Strength has to be the strongest set in the game. “Good balance” merely means that, at the end of the day, the various sets perform relatively well compared to each other. Which they do. Maybe not some, but Super Strength is probably closer to the top than the bottom in overall performance, which is a perfectly good place to be.

Tremendous feats of strength are a tad tiring tho..

But it would be if we improved some of the crap attacks. So. Let’s. Do. That?!

The only purpose of the crash is to offset how much +damage/+tohit Rage does compared to Build Up/etc. If you think Jab/Punch/Hurl need to be buffed, why not say so instead of this confusing argument about their problems being somehow Rage’s fault?

Each power would need to be balanced on its own terms *and* within the set. Not sure what the hypothetical 1 damage powerset argument is doing for the conversation though.

The penalty balances the damage buff power. Not the set.

Damage buff magnitude =/= powerset DPS or DPA or pylon time or whatever you’re getting at. No one has ever claimed SS is the clear winner in damage output overall. But ofc there’s zero reason it should since all sets can’t be the best.

It is factually and indisputably the best when averaged over a two minute period or longer with the possible exception of Claws/Dual Blades if activated every 3-4 seconds. I’m going to take the liberty of reading between the lines here though and say your problem sounds like it’s with Jab/Punch/Hurl, not Rage. Am I really wrong?

Alas, I suppose that’s why we have thousands of possible powerset combinations we can create. In case someone likes one and not another or something like that.

I don’t see it that way. I don’t think you’re paying a damn thing in net terms. You get something for your downtime: the best overall self damage buff in the game. If there wasn’t downtime, the buff literally wouldn’t be justifiable, and you could no longer have it because, yes, that’s how balance works. We could give SS Build Up, but I have a sneaking suspicion everyone would suddenly show their true Rage fandom if that was done.

Savage, lol

I’m afraid I don’t understand the argument. But to imply that SS comes out of the other end of Rage with crap damage is plainly wrong as far as my observations and calculations go.

SS is stronger, not weaker, once effects of Rage vs Build Up are factored in soooo... non-useful post.

Agree to disagree. I think it certainly feels stronger than some sets. I am not opposed to reconsidering the nature of the crash, but many ideas do feel like too much for me. I could see the set being not too overpowered if one of its cons was removed. The damage debuff or the defense debuff or the scalars of the attacks but not two or more of those things.

I was avoiding SS on HC for a long time because the tradeoffs all sounded over the top. Once I actually made an SS character again and recalled the true strength of SS with Rage, I’m afraid I no longer agree the tradeoffs are too punishing. I have not had a reason to need Jab or Punch, but Haymaker absolutely ceases to be atrocious once Rage is factored in.

This sentence doesn’t seem like it’s coming from someone who’s in touch with the concept of game balance, sorry. They tried implementing this exact philosophy on Titan Weapons, but it created an imbalance that had to be nerfed. Not going to happen.

Because your attacks are better than everyone else’s the rest of the time? It’s called a tradeoff. Angels now has me convinced I need a more proccy SS toon. I have other characters that use Vigor and mostly procs, but not my SS tanker. But Rage’s ToHit and proc abuse sounds like a great match.

Hey I like using that one a lot tho. I do like tho how the quoted post literally says his anecdote counts as good evidence. Double standard? I’d rather drop it from here. Lum and I are going to disagree on reality (still recalling the thread war about support class discrimination and oppression). No need to prod each other over and over at a certain point. Apparently it’s not just me that’s a bit fucked in the brain.

I just want to say for the warm fuzzies that, whenever I was looking for an Empathy to keep my petty scrapper herding Dreck as well as a tanker, I didn’t discriminate between controllers and defenders. Unfortunately this can’t be much help to Lum as the story involves someone looking for an Empathy.

Well it seemed like the word of the entire community until now, but I guess you’re right that we could’ve hallucinated it. You’re free to start a poll if you need the proof. I can check your poll questions for validity if you like as there were a number of scenarios you’d need to capture to do it right. I don’t care to do it myself because I already remember not only encountering it almost daily but also finding that others were broadly aware of the phenomenon as well.

Back when I was a teenager, I somehow lacked the foresight to document every instance of looking for a healer, asking if someone was a healer, being asked if I was a healer, being on a team that was looking for a healer, etc. I don't know how I could've been so stupid to have missed the opportunity to have conducted a rigorous statistical analysis. Kids do stupid stuff. I guess we'll never know if the healer buzz was real or just a dream.

Considering I saw this all the time, heard about it from others all the time, etc... I gotta say this looks like textbook gaslighting here. Acting like no one ever had an unrealistic expectation of getting heals specifically out of general support is gaslighting, yes. This post reads about as if it's saying "Can you provide any evidence that Assault Rifle is considered a subpar set? Only peer-reviewed dissertations though - this is serious business." Actually, a better example would be something that the entire culture has long acknowledged existed. Like demanding data sets to prove that taxi bots were a thing. Jesus christ are we really implying "r u a heal0r" was fake news? (Sorry I keep editing this bad boy)

And you put bids in to verify this wasn’t the standard host of never addressed display glitches? If so, probably just a spike about to go down again.

I was stating a fact in response to reading someone’s post that expressed skepticism about Scrappers being tough enough to farm. I did not say that farming was my reason for opposing taunt auras. I would happily take advantage of the superior farmer if things turned out that way, but hopefully they don’t for farming-unrelated balance reasons. Anyway it’s a moot point because Scrapper Fiery Aura is never getting a taunt aura. So the only actual reality to consider is whether or not to strip away the already existing Scrapper taunt auras. My vote is yes.

Ok but each AT needs to have ways in which they are better than others in all scenarios. Every single other AT has pros/cons across the board. Guess you’d have a little extra HP. Great. Anyway glad your points all basically demonstrate Scrappers having taunt auras would disrupt balance. Thanks for the unacknowledged agreement.