Rudra

The actual concern isn't the rotor spinning through the character, though that would annoy me to no end. The concern is that if you have a big enough team, read 4 or more characters usually, and your mission entrance/exit is a helicopter, the players first to load in the helicopter find themselves either unable to exit the helicopter, or more frequently, driven even further in the helicopter, because of the mission exit spawn location and possibly facing. Which has in several instances in my personal experience, led to frustrated players calling for the slower loaders to turn around and exit the helicopter so they can finally get out as well. And despite MM pets being set up to get moved out of the way by player characters, this situation is often compounded by MM pets further obstructing players' ability to exit until everyone has finished appearing at the exit load/spawn point. (While my own pets have never obstructed me, my teammates pets do actually force me back further into the cargo compartment until the MM character finishes loading. I can only imagine my pets have had the same effect on others.)

While you make a good point, I would like to point out for the purpose of the author's question as far as non-Ancillary/Patron pools go, the resist and defense powers available to ATs through their Ancillary or Patron Power Pools are not available to melee ATs at all. Even the Sentinel AT does not get access to resist or defense powers from their Ancillary or Patron pools. Because the Live devs at least, not sure about current devs, did not want any ATs with armor powers getting access to the ability to quickly or easily max out their resists, thus the Fighting pool being the only (edit: non-APP/PPP) pool with a resist power that isn't limited to use once every 3 minutes.

The reason why there is only one resist power pool set, based on my understanding of the game and what was said by the Live devs around the game's initial launch, is because the power pools are meant to provide powers that fill holes in a character design from the ATs. That's why there were 4 travel pools initially, though that number has increased to 6 with the two origin-based pools. All ATs had a hole in their set up for advanced or thematic travel. So players had to dip into the power pools to fill that hole. By the same token, the ATs that were expected to be in the middle of all the fighting, the Scrappers and Tankers only at that time, then expanded to the Stalkers and Brutes, already have resist and/or defense built into their ATs. However, since Blasters, Defenders, and Controllers, and then later Corrupters, Dominators, and Masterminds, were not expected to be in the middle of the fight (Blappers not withstanding since the Blaster's melee abilities were considered supplemental to give the Blaster breathing room when enemies got close), their ATs lacked any built in resists or defenses. So players could fill that hole as well if needed, the Fighting pool was available. So basically, the reason why only the Fighting pool has resists is because it is/was intended that non-melee ATs would not need any or much additional damage resistance. Especially since some added defense worked better for keeping those ATs alive in the end. (Edit again: And also because the Live devs didn't want melee ATs able to dip into too much added resistance from the power pools.) (Edit: Also, what @FupDup said....)

If that is enough to no longer be stuck staring at my teammates as they spawn in, okay. Works for me. I don't really care as long as those helicopters are fixed so we're not trapped in them any more.

I've found that facing doesn't help. When the team keeps spawning as you're trying to leave, you either keep getting pushed further in or are just unable to move out. Moving the helicopter spawn points to either the base of the ramp or pretty much anywhere not in the cargo compartment would help the most. (Edit: Or rather, would be the only actually helpful fixes.)

RWZ Ms. Liberty

Propel has a 15 feet radius Mag 0.67 KB effect so it is really a KD effect. If the targets have any KB protection at all, you won't see it.

I could get behind this, yeah.

This has nothing to do with the OP and I apologize for that.... however... am I the only person that always takes both their T1 and T2 attacks and makes it part of their attack chain?!

I'm not sure what you mean with that question. However, if the question is about the damage from said procs, I don't think it does? Bear in mind I'm not a Controller player, so there is a high chance I'm wrong, but Propel is flagged as taking both damage and knockback enhancements (https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=controller_control.gravity_control.propel&at=controller). So I'm gonna go out on this limb and say the damage procs themselves, other than those that specifically affect KB, won't affect it. (Edit: And the AoE portion of Propel is a KD effect instead of a KB effect anyway. Mag 0.67 KB.)

Oh, I definitely agree with you. For the OP though? The shrapnel wouldn't really justify a KB or KD effect. While several chunks would be heavy, their combined weight and speed wouldn't be sufficient to knock even a normal human down. (Edit: Not unless the rock didn't fragment into small shards, but instead broke up into like maybe thirds.) Cringe, dodge, duck, or otherwise try to avoid being hit by the shrapnel? Most definitely. Suffer minor lacerations and (probably) sizable bruises? Also definitely. Be stunned or otherwise rendered unable to fight? Only if the head is struck with a sizable chunk. So yeah, being adjacent to something having a large rock/small boulder smashed on it? Not something I (or I would reason any sane person) would want to be around. (Assuming I'm sane here, but bear with me on this assumption.) Hurl having an AoE KB or KD? I believe it would have to be a very small radius for the rock itself hitting as an AoE rather than any shrapnel the shattered rock may generate.

That very much depends on the size of ground being ripped up and thrown. And the size of ground being ripped up and thrown in the game looks to be large enough to hit the target and anything right next to it. So maybe a 1-2 feet radius. However, please bear in mind that I am very, very, very bad at guesstimating area and distance. (Edit: However, I should note that if the chunk is big enough to knock down adjacent targets, it is also big enough to damage adjacent targets. They would after all, be knocked down by impact with the rock.) Edit again: Also, to @honoroit, if the rock is fragmenting and showering nearby targets with shrapnel from having shattered upon impact, that would cause damage, yes, but not likely a KD effect. Chance for Stun in case a shard hits the head, but not a KD. Especially since those fragments would not be traveling anywhere near as fast as most shrapnel pieces. They would just be (relatively) slow moving chunks spraying the nearby targets.

I'm pretty sure that Domination doesn't activate automatically when its bar fills. 😉Having Hide for Stalkers be an inherent that's a toggle shouldn't be conceptually difficult for the class; if someone wants to play their Stalker without Hide, they don't have to use it. Well, the OP was about Hide being an auto power. It was @Akisan that thought the request was for it to be an inherent. Before I get into the rest of this post though, I want to be perfectly clear that I am opposed to making Hide an inherent power. (Or an auto power for that matter.) So, some questions: 1) If Hide was made into an inherent power, what would it be replaced with? 2) If Hide was made into an inherent power, then why shouldn't other ATs get one of their primary theme powers as an inherent as well? 2.1) What would those other newly inherent powers be replaced with? 3) What problem does making Hide into an inherent fix or situation does it address? (Especially since players that for some reason don't want Hide on their Stalkers can already skip Hide.) The question of Hide being made into an auto power is easy to answer. If Hide was an auto power on Stalkers, then Stalkers would not be able to do a multitude of missions solo, including story arcs. The question of Hide as an inherent is "Why?!".

Not once have I refuted any ACTUAL data that already exists in game via a powers numbers. Please show me exactly where I said something had a specific number value and said that that wasn't the case, because unless there was an extremely misplaced typo I missed, I guarantee you can't. (again, straight number value, not conjecture based on what other people "feel" is fine", as the straight numbers, are what actual data is, and don't just paste data someone provided, cause obviously I'm already well aware of the actual numbers that exist in game) Someone said something about someone not actually reading their posts or misreading them?

Yes, exactly, this specific thread. You have 0 support from anyone on this thread after 5 pages and 25 days. And yet you insist that only you are correct; that the Live devs were wrong or idiots for designing the powers in question the way they did, that the posters on this thread other than yourself are wrong, idiots, or incapable of reading your posts in regards to these two powers, and you keep pushing the goal posts further out for what we should be comparing these two powers to in order to make them "proper" and "balanced" powers, in strictly your opinion. In point of fact, you have provided 0 links to any supporting data, the only data you have actually provided is what you want the powers to be like, and have provided nothing that actually says anything about the powers having any actual problems that are not specifically your opinion on the matter. And you insist on ignoring any provided, and even linked, data that refutes you. Such as when you say that all "comparable" armors get END drain resistance automatically when in fact, they don't. Or that a +5% recovery boost is meager when it can provide 2.755 END per target, that's 27.55 END if 10 targets are drained, on top of the character's existing recovery buffs and the up front END Consume gives. (Edit: To put this meager recovery boost into perspective, at base value, Consume can grant the character +50% Recovery if all 10 targets are hit. And if you just slot for ENDMod? It can get up to +109.1% Recovery if all 10 targets are hit. That isn't meager even at 15 seconds of duration.) Because it doesn't fit your narrative, it must therefor be "meager" and not worth thinking about. This is why I am asking for the thread to be locked. You refuse to accept anything that does not fit your narrative and have spent the past 5 pages being "the lone voice of reason" against everyone trying to explain to you why your approach on the matter is wrong. Edit: And obviously I need to take another break from this thread for a while.

That is strictly your opinion, and reading this thread, one only you hold. Which again is strictly your opinion that does not seem to be shared according to this thread. Dark Consumption and Consume are not meant to be constant use powers. If that frustrates you, and apparently only you, then maybe don't play those sets. You are constantly trying to make the game what you want and to hell with anyone else's feedback or opinion on the matter. Because obviously, you know the best, right? Can we please get this thread locked? The only advocate is the author and (s)he/they don't give a damn what anyone else has to say on the matter.

No, they don't. Ice Armor for instance, where you find Energy Absorption, has 0% END drain resistance scattered across all 9 of its powers. Energy Aura and Electric Armor do get END drain resistance, but only in their specific resistance powers. Except for Sentinel Energy Aura (which is where you find Power Drain) which again has 0% END drain resistance across all 9 of its powers. So let's take a look at the sets. You want to compare the END drain resistance in Consume to the END drain resistance granted by the resistance, not the drains or defenses, of energy-based armor sets. And then claim they aren't equal so Consume needs a buff? They aren't even thematically the same or function the same. And even among the energy-based armor sets, Fiery Aura's Consume grants more END drain protection than all of Sentinel's Energy Aura. (I looked at every power in Sentinel Energy Aura on CoD. Not a single one had X% resist (Endurance).) Your argument boils down to you don't like that Consume and Dark Consumption take so long to recharge out of the box, and ignoring everything other than the +END in Consume, they are under-powered. Dark Consumption because you think it is not a good enough attack and Consume because you think the only thing that matters from it is the +END and everything else should be ignored or moved into other powers, preferably auto powers so they constantly grant those benefits which would make them so OP as to break the set with absolutely any amount of enhancement slotting. And even when you propose a nerf for balance, like you did with Dark Consumption to reduce the total END gained to 83.33 END with 10 targets drained instead of 125 gained from 5 targets, it is still a huge buff because you want it to have a 40 second recharge which means it can be used primarily as an attack that also happens to grant up to 83.33 END before you slot END enhancements and would be able to use it every 13.33 seconds, using the example that we can already get the 3 minute recharge down to 1 minute with ease as a reference for that math. The game is already ridiculously easy. Stop asking to make it even easier.

Energy Drain does not grant END drain resistance. https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.energy_aura.energy_drain&at=scrapper Power Drain does not grant END drain resistance. https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=sentinel_defense.energy_aura.power_drain&at=sentinel Power Sink does not grant END drain resistance. https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.electric_armor.power_sink&at=scrapper Energy Absorption does not grant END drain resistance. https://cod.uberguy.net/html/power.html?power=scrapper_defense.ice_armor.energy_absorption&at=scrapper Neither do any of those powers grant +Max HP. And before you say yet again that the +Max HP can be plugged into an auto power as part of removing it from Consume, firstly, Dull Pain is not an auto power and it is your go to reference, and secondly, it is currently part of Consume and should be factored as such. Edit: I also note that you still have not referenced any of the math about that "so low" +Recovery bit that has been provided. You know, the one that shows that 'meager' +5% Recovery isn't meager? That even using the END/second rate can get up to 2.755 END/target drained on top of the up front +END the power grants even before you get into any global effects or how that stacks with all the other +Recovery buffs players build into their characters. +5% Recovery is garbage per you. So let's toss out all the +4%, +2.5%, and other recovery buffs. You will probably counter that those last constantly as opposed to the 15 seconds of Consume. Sure, but for those 15 seconds, that +5% per target drained is still adding to every other +Recovery effect built into the character.

And as @Luminara pointed out, the only powers actually similar to Consume and Dark Consumption are Consume and Dark Consumption. You are citing things like Dull Pain (which only does +Max HP) and saying that Consume doesn't even keep up with it. (It shouldn't. Consume grants END, Recovery, +Max HP, and END Drain Resist. Not a good comparison.) Then you go on about Dark Consumption not keeping up with its peers (of which it really doesn't have any) because the recharge and damage are too low for the attack 'it obviously is' regardless of how many times you are told it is not meant as an attack primary. Edit: Sorry, Dull Pain also has an upfront heal component. Still not comparable to Consume.

Dark Consumption is not meant as an attack. It is a utility power that happens to do damage. You keep looking at it like it is supposed to be an attack just because it is in the melee power set instead of in the armor power set. The Live devs wanted to make sure that Dark Melee could be paired with any secondary instead of just Dark Armor (and possibly Fiery Aura). So we wound up with a damaging utility power in the melee set instead of the armor set. Are you this upset with Confront (edit: or Taunt) for doing no damage? It's in the melee sets too. Just because a power is in the melee set does not mean it's primary purpose is as an attack. And even at that, it still manages to do anywhere from more damage than other melee AoEs (looking at Savage Melee's Savage Leap per Mids because I'm not tackling the formula on CoD) to 2/3's the damage of most melee PBAoEs to half the damage of some melee AoEs. While granting something rather critical to the character, lots of END to fuel their attacks and defenses depending on how many enemies are around them. (So yes, that makes the Dark Melee set a fairly unique set among the melee sets that you are looking to make not unique any more because you keep treating Dark Consumption like its primary purpose is an attack that those 'silly, foolish devs' back on live screwed up the design for.) I'm with @TheZag. Dark Melee is a fun set that functions differently than most other sets and has some rather interesting modes of play that it will not have any more if the current devs turn it into an attack primary that just happens to grant some END like you want.

Like @Uun said, there are escort missions that require the character to not have any form of stealth power active, and yes, believe it or not, there are players that for some reason don't take Hide on their Stalkers. (I don't know why, but they do.)

@WindDemon21's complaint isn't that (s)he/they can't find 3 mobs with which to fill their END bar, it is that those powers cannot be incorporated into a sustained attack chain and (s)he/they want it to need more than just the default 3 mobs to reach full restoration. So the stated desire from what I'm reading is Dark Consumption and Consume need to have shorter recharges so they can be 'properly' incorporated into an attack chain and also need the full 10 targets they can hit to grant the full END while also granting more upfront END per use. (Please bear in mind I do not agree with this stance and it hurts my head to understand.) So in @WindDemon21's goal: need more targets to get full END bar instead of 3 or 4, needs to grant more END if only facing a single foe, and needs to have a short enough recharge that can be used at least in every fight.

I've already said why Dark Consumption is in the Dark Melee set instead of the Dark Armor set, using the reasoning the Live devs gave. I disagree with your take on Consume and Dark Consumption. Others disagree with your take on Consume and Dark Consumption. There hasn't been a single comment made by anyone other than yourself to support the OP. Even @Vanden who seems to be in favor of a tweak does not seem to be in favor of the OP itself. Maybe the devs will agree with you, who knows. Right now though? This entire thread has been a repetitive circle of pretty much just opposition.

What it looks like you want is to change Consume and Dark Consumption into attack chain powers so they can give constant END boosts and be used as constant attacks.

k, thanks.