Luminara

Do it right. Get some wind in that character.

Farketeer.

What high cost?

Your comparison was implied to be a triple-box farmer versus an unstated number of players on the ITF. This is from your first post in this thread - Do you frequently have issues recruiting yourself for your solo endeavors and presume that to be the norm? No? Then that reference to recruiting indicates that the ITF runner in the comparison is on a team. Your own words, quoted above, clearly state that the person going through the ITF would be doing so with the expectation of having a team assembled, having had to "spend tine (sic) recruiting". You failed to specify the number of teammates the ITF runner would have, but as it happens, that number is irrelevant because the math, which is based on the results you provided, indicates that the per player per hour inf* gain is equivalent between the activities in question. Of course, having had your conclusion proven erroneous, again, by the figures you submitted as proof of that conclusion, you're now attempting to change the conditions of the comparison, restricting the ITF runner to a solo environment, disregarding that the multi-boxing farmer is engaging in the equivalent of teaming, and in spite of having previously stated that the ITF runner would not likely be solo. Yeah... no. Yet, you believe you can compare the inf* generated by a triple-boxing farmer to a solo player's results. Because how else are you going to prove yourself right, if not by arbitrarily altering the parameters and deliberately trying to skew things in favor of the farmer so you can portray said farmer as a bad, bad person? It's not really a team, just because it's three characters on three separate accounts, so why not pretend they don't exist (except that they're receiving extra inf* and drops and typically aiding the farmer in some way, such as spamming a heal or Speed Boost), right? Right? Wrong. Because none of what you've been saying makes sense when examined? Because none of what you've said has actually been correct? Because you're pushing a personal vendetta against farmers and accusing them of causing inflation despite the game showing the opposite to be true? Because you've resorted to changing the parameters of the comparison to "win"? A team comprised of a farmer plus two dummy accounts is still a team. The characters on the secondary and tertiary accounts are still teammates, receiving inf* and drops of their own which is in addition to the farmer's inf* and drops. The farmer is not creating more inf* than anyone else, as demonstrated in other posts in this thread, he/she is simply keeping more inf* than players who team with other players. Some farmers might be generating inf* above the curve, others are generating less, just as some *F runners put together optimal teams and blitz through *Fs at blistering paces while others take a more leisurely approach. It averages out over time. None of them are generating inf* in such excessive and enormous amounts that the economy is endangered, the farmers are only generating more inf* for their own personal use than the average player, not more inf* than other players can generate via other methods, and that is also not endangering the economy. Any three characters working in concert can make 100,000,000 inf* per hour. The farmer keeps all of it, the team players share it. That's the only difference. Whether it's divided three ways or all goes into one pocket isn't relevant. See the paragraph above. Yet you felt that non-inf*/non-vendor rewards were important to include as part of the reward structure of farming, to such a degree that you actively disputed every reminder that non-AE content offers more rewards than AE content, or than farming in general. You made it a point to dispute the claim that farmers couldn't acquire all of the same rewards by farming. It was important enough that you addressed that more than once. But having merits rewards for completing *Fs/trials/story arcs raised as an example of a reward unobtainable by farming, since farming doesn't complete *Fs/trials/story arcs, requires them to be excluded (now that there's a value attached to those merits). They're no longer relevant, now that they're relevant. Yeah, that's definitely not a transparent and feeble scramble to maintain an untenable position. But, hell, let's run with it! If you want to move the goal post from Hackensack to Kolkata, fuck yeah, let's do it! We'll remove the ~6,000,000 inf* for merits from the earlier calculation. That still equates to more than double the net earnings for the TF runners when compared to the farmer's earnings in the same time period, 240,000,000 versus the farmer's 100,000,000 after one hour. That's 30,000,000 inf* per hour per player on the TF (as originally noted by @Bionic_Flea), and at three players, we achieve equilibrium with the triple-boxing farmer. 3 characters on each team, equivalent inf* generation. Do you want to change the conditions again? What you consistently fail to accept or admit is that it's not how much a farmer generates, it's how much everyone generates that matters. Farmers don't park themselves in the AE and farm the same map over and over again because the inf* generation is higher in AE farm maps, they do it because it's easy to build for those maps and the inf* they generate doesn't have to be split 3-8 ways. It's not more inf* overall, it's more inf* for them, and it doesn't impact the economy to any measurable degree because it's just not relevant in comparison to the vastly greater amounts generated by significantly greater percentage of the population doing everything else. But you categorically refute that because you're completely focused on the individual gains. The big picture doesn't seem to exist for you. You just will not see it. You're so determined to prove that farmers are a cancer that you've thrown away all reason, logic and credulity in pursuit of that goal. You've consistently failed to do the most basic math to support your conclusion, and you really should've done that before you posted the first time; your attempts at defending your position have been tantamount to "Nuh uh" and "I'm rubber and you're glue"; you display no facility for deductive or abductive reasoning; and you clearly have a personal agenda warping your perspective on the subject. You're a threat to yourself, not to me. I don't farm. I mention that in this very thread, but apparently even the effort of reading the thread in which you're posting is too much research work for you.

I tried that once. I made it through one mission and respeced back into CJ. I'm not me without my boingboing. I like Combat Teleport, but I like bouncing more. 🐰

If you scroll up a bit, you'll note that @macskull expanded on my post with additional calculations and information. In that post, using the numbers you provided (plus some which you omitted), the team of eight players generates the same quantity of inf* in ~15.62 minutes that the farmer needs an hour to generate. We can also extrapolate that it only "requires" two players to equal the farmer's inf* generation rate per hour, as opposed to "an entire team of players", based on that same analysis, which, again, uses the numbers you provided. You proved yourself wrong. You're so focused on forcing everyone to accept your assertion that farmers cause inflation that you're overlooking, or deliberately distorting, facts which refute that assertion. Farmers might gross more than individual players, but the economy isn't based on the actions of individuals, but the sum of all actions of all players. What farmers do is, in reality, a drop in the ocean, because they don't comprise a significant portion of the player base and their best efforts are only really impressive when viewed at that individual level. I and others have looked at your numbers and come to the conclusion that the math, based on your numbers, completely disputes everything you've said. The evidence you're attempting to support your position with has had the opposite effect. Let it go. Is not condoned by the HC team and will, eventually, be addressed. Chill, they're not damaging the economy in the least. You can put the pitchfork and torch down.

The foundation of your premise is flawed from the outset. For example, your hypothetical comparison of a farmer generating 100,000,000 inf* per hour versus 10,000,000-12,000,000 inf* per hour for a "kill most ITF" doesn't clarify the conditions of the comparison. A farmer triple-boxing versus a single character on a full team is what your suggested comparison implies, and that would grossly skew the metrics involved to make it appear that the farmer was generating ten times the inf*, when in actuality, the inf* generation would be equivalent for the activities, with the difference being the ITF inf* split eight ways, rather than all going into a single pocket. Your comparison fails to account for the 26 merits rewarded for completing the ITF. Yes, the farmer can collect Empyrean merits for achieving veteran level milestones and exchange those for reward merits, but the character on the ITF can acquire those Empyrean merits as well and the ITF reward merits in addition. That equates to roughly ~6,000,000 additional inf* for every character on the ITF, and potentially more, depending on how they use those merits, that wasn't included in your comparison. That increases the average inf* generation from 10-12,000,000 inf* to 16-18,000,000 inf* per participating character, netting a total of 128-144,000,000 inf* for completing that TF (28-44,000,000 more than the farmer generates). You're throwing out numbers with no qualifying data, and either failing to account for all variables or deliberately obfuscating the results. People here actually look at the facts. People here test things. And people here have had this discussion numerous times in the past, so they're not easily hornswoggled, or unlikely to notice that you missed some very obvious points. If you'd like to be taken seriously, post some real data, not wild guestimates presented as gospel or deliberately disingenuous comparisons intended to incite FUD.

The Ouroboros Initiation. Fifth mission. Pandora's Box, Episode 2. First mission.

Those Romans are as fast as lightning. @Bill Z Bubba says they're not very frightening. @Cobalt Arachne replied with expert timing. Wait, are we singing the Carl Douglas version or the Tom Jones version? Because if we're using the Tom Jones version, I can add a couple more names in the next bit. Then @BillyMailman Dropped a numbers bomb, And @Bopper jumped on in And moved the thread along. I know. It's a gift. No applause, just throw money. Ow. OW. I said money, not nickels! OW! STOP!

Just had an opportunity to test something: in mission maps, when the last few critters are shown as red arrows on the mini-map, they're selectable as waypoints.

Right-click on the mini-map to set a waypoint marker at the critter's location, or set a waypoint at your current location and run to the critter.

I see a string of words, but they don't make sense. Is this another language? Have I developed aphasia?

That pun is atrocious. Well done. 👍

I only use sets. I don't farm.

The way the game used to work, travel power speeds increased as you leveled up On that character, who was leveled before the travel power update, my Jump Speed was comparable to or above Fly Speed at every level from around 12 onward. In the game as it is now, after the travel power adjustments in the last update, yes, it would be at a disadvantage at times. But not as much as it seems, unless it's a strictly numerical comparison (and even then, not always, because vendor jet packs/void skiff/rocket board still have the old Fly Speed limit). People, even now, when arriving at a mission can be as simple and rapid as one click, tend to spend as much time lollygagging as they do actually playing. They stand outside the last mission until someone reminds them that the next mission is up. They stop on the way to a mission to change a costume piece. They take a few minutes to train up to the next level. They go shopping. They go AFK for a smoke, or to walk the dog. They stop, and do not-mission things. "Be there in a minute, guys, I'm just <insert activity here>." Speed running every mission and mass teleporting teams door to door aren't the norm, they're the exception. Most people still play this game as it was intended, as a casual-friendly social MMORPG. They just don't care if you're showing up at the mission door first or last, whether you're using a vendor jet pack as your travel power or rocking SS and SJ and Teleport all in the same build. If it matters to you, then take a travel power. It doesn't matter to most of the people you'll meet and play with. I never arrived last. I typically arrived third. I couldn't allow myself to because I had to prove that my no travel power characters with Trick Arrows were just as good as everyone else. I made it my business to know how to go everywhere and reach everything; to reach any destination with the fewest zone transitions and shortest direct path; to get moving the instant the next mission was set; to go all the way to the top of maps, and navigate every maze of trees or sewers; to find every mechanical quirk and use it.

I've been through every zone in the game, every map in the game, with nothing but Hurdle and Combat Jumping. With set bonuses and two level 50+5 Jump IOs in Hurdle, you can hit 63.31 mph Jump Speed and Jump Height of 32', easily enough reach anything with a little practice (with the exception of the Top Dog badge. that is, after several years of testing and hundreds of attempts, the only badge i've found which can't be acquired without either a travel power or someone teleporting your character). Shadow Shard, PvP zones, Browntown, Shinyville, I've been everywhere with builds like this. These days, though, I just take Infiltration on most of my characters. Eight years without travel powers is enough, I'm moving on to other challenges.

Finding all eight exploration badges in a zone grants 5 merits. There are almost 50 of those rewards available, netting the player nearly 250 merits, and you can acquire most of them at level 1 by going to the P2W/T4V vendor, taking the free Athletic/Beast/Ninja Run power and running around. Install the Vidiotmap pack or @Shenanigunner's BadgeDRADIS or @AboveTheChemist's Optimal Badge Path Maps and start jogging. Merits can be used to purchase things which can be sold on the player market, such as boosters, catalysts, converters and unslotters, or they can be used to convert set IOs, which you can use, sell or squirrel away for alts. This is a simple, direct path to nearly unlimited wealth in the game. With the merits you obtain from collecting badges, you can net at least ~50,000,000 inf*, even if all you're doing is buying converters from the merit vendor and reselling them on the player market. Converter roulette is riskier, but can turn that ~50,000,000 into ten times as much with some lucky conversions (and knowing when to quit and sell, rather than keep converting). Merits are easy to obtain, even with the shittiest, least capable characters imaginable running story arcs solo at -1/x1. So go get your merits and get rich off of them.

Mental illness and a sub-poverty line income don't allow me the luxury of avoiding spoilers. If I'm going to spend money on something, I like being informed of the value of the purchase and likelihood of my enjoyment. And even the most detailed synopsis or longest trailer can't tell you everything that happens, anyway. A movie is more than a climactic conclusion, or a 2:30 trailer, or a synopsis, so I'm not bothered by knowing a few details.

Yes. During the Freakshow War arc, the mission which requires the player to locate and defeat the four team captains. It's also occurred for me at least a couple of times when on other missions which use that map. Running around, looking for objectives, critters will appear right as I enter their spawn point, or just as often, after I've passed the spawn point. It's only happened on that map, though. Never in open zones, never in office maps, never in tech lab maps, et cetera. I keep netgraph active at all times, as well, and there's never any lag spiking or high ping time when the oddity occurs. You're not crazy. Something's fucky.

I say "bacon" once and you two go on a posting frenzy. @Jimmy, put something in their kibble bowls. You monster.

I know the Steadfast Protection Res/Def went as high as inf* cap plus because I specifically recall an interaction in a global chat channel in which one player was complaining that there were zero of that recipe or IO, at any level between 10 and 30, on the market, and after several other people rushed to the market to see if he was full of shit, and verified that it was bone dry, another player offered a level 10 Steadfast Protection Res/Def in exchange for 2B inf* plus certain HOs. It was in late December, 2009 or early January, 2010. The reason I remember that interaction is that I was, at that point, grinding a CoT radio mission with my TA/Dark, trying to generate enough inf* to pay for 5/6 Armageddon recipes, and there's very little else to do during an activity like that other than read global chats. Reading the debate on the ethics of charging more than the inf* cap, the complaints over the lack of Steadfast Protection recipes/IOs on the player market at that time, the discussion about parking characters at specific levels in order to generate a constant stream of recipes at those levels and the questions and speculations about where it was best to try to farm specific recipes provided far more stimulation than pressing 1 and 2 sequentially for an hour. And yes, they made the trade. The purchaser thanked him profusely in the same global chat channel. I thought they were both insane, the trader for asking that much and the purchaser for paying, but they were both satisfied, so no skin off of my nose. The market on the original servers was all about monopolies, and he/she who controls the supply controls the price. Steadfast was one of those things which was most definitely controlled, at every level from 10 through 30, recipes and crafted IOs, by marketeers, some of whom weren't hesitant to clear out the entire market by placing a few hundred 2B bids in an attempt to gain control of a competitor's niche, or to drive the price up even higher, or to protect their segment. It was the most glorious shit show I've ever had the privilege to witness. Pure 80's greed, uncontrolled, unregulated. That's why I say it was inf* cap plus. Regardless of what the price might've been when the recipe/IO was available on the player market (which was definitely not "always", not even taking into account that every level of the recipe/IO was unique in availability and pricing), it was being traded outside the market for inf* cap plus and that reflects its true perceived value in the context of the state of the game at that point in time and how it related to players and their expectations. If someone paid 2 inf* for a Steadfast recipe/IO, we wouldn't (then or now) value that enhancement at 2 inf*, we'd value it at whatever the market peak was (presuming a continuous inflationary cycle rather than a depression or repression (atypical in a video game outside of mass player hemorrhaging)). If that confused some people, my apologies.

All of the arcs in Faultline: ShortFusionette. DirectFusionette. Triple EB fight that doesn't feel cheesy or punishingFusionette. I think that covers itFusionette. Collateral Damage: But only on the second run, as a flashback. It's rewarding in a way few other experiences in this game manage to be. The Graveyard Shift: A fresh approach that uses old toys in new ways. Challenge without bullet sponges. Twisted Reflections and Through the Looking Glass: It really is all about me. And me. Versus me. All three The New Praetorians arcs: The companions are more interesting than any others I've encountered. The missions are refreshingly different without being obtuse or irritating. The alterations to Brickstown after everything's complete are a nice touch. Praetoria's Last Gasp: Nice maps. Interesting foes. Scavenger hunt. Oh, and the planet's trying to eat you. All five Pandora's Box arcs: This feels like the comic book experience. The episodic presentation. The twists and turns. The cliff-hangers. The over-the-top ludicrousness that, somehow, makes sense and feels perfectly connected and in place within the context of the game world.

75,000,000-125,000,000 inf* per purple recipe on the original servers. Steadfast Protection Res/Def - over the inf* cap (cap is 2,000,000,000). PvP recipes also traded for over the cap (Gladiator's Armor Res/Def went up to 3,000,000,000 inf*). Luck of the Gambler Def/+Global Recharge was around 100,000,000 inf*. A complete mix/max build with all of the trimmings could run as much as 30,000,000,000, fifteen times the inf* cap. Today, you can kit out a level 50 with five purples sets, one or two ATO sets (if you don't upgrade them to the Superior versions, they don't infringe on the rule of five for 10% +Recharge bonuses), one or two Winter sets and all of the uniques and globals you can cram into slots for less than 500,000,000 inf* (smart shopping can cut that almost in half).