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Blackfeather

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Posts posted by Blackfeather

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    4 hours ago, Oubliette_Red said:

    I expect that these requests come from players that have spent countless hours and millions to billions on Enh to eek out every fraction of Def/Dam/etc they possibly can which leaves the majority of the game feeling rather underwhelming when they can roll through on max +/x.

     

    I honestly don't know what percentage of the players kite out their builds versus those of us that don't even bother with Mids and just slot what seems to be the best option. Personally, I just like playing and spending hours in Mids tweeking numbers seems like too much work.

     

    But I think that being able to provide greater challenges to power players without extensive revamps of game mechanics or creating more end game content, using the Ouro 'challenge settings' mechanics would be the simplisst option.

     

    Ouro challenge settings:

    • Time Limits - Allow time limit selections for missions/arcs, 15m/30m/1hr/etc.
    • Limited Lives - No deaths, one death, etc.
    • Power Challenges
      • Players are DeBuffed
      • Enemies are Buffed
      • AT Powers only
      • No Travel Powers
      • No Temp Powers
      • No Epic/Patron Powers
      • No Inspirations
      • No Enhancements

     

    Currently not something in that game but would be a nice addition:

    • No Enhancement Bonuses (Not currently a thing but I think it's something that should be a thing.
    • Spawn Void Hunters/Nictus/Crystals (Also not a thing but I've seen a lot of players requesting that they be put back. )

     

    Players can select one, several, or all to their heart's content.

     

    EDIT: Another thread reminded of Kheld kooties.

     

     

    Thanks for posting this up, it's an interesting read! Additional Notoriety options along with the one proposed here definitely wouldn't be objected to, though I'm not sure how many of those Flashback options could be feasibly ported over to single instanced missions (e.g. time limits/lives).

     

    Not sure how much work would be involved with porting one system over into another part of the game would be, but that's ultimately up to the devs to determine rather than us - either way, it does look like we're both in agreement that difficulty settings are less effort as opposed to making more challenging content: the game in general's balanced around SOs as mentioned in my OP.

     

    Thanks again for expanding upon this suggestion! 😄

    • Like 1

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    9 hours ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

    I think that adding these Notoriety Options, in addition to the ones that we already have, is certainly something that the developers should consider.

    1) No set IO bonuses.

    2) No set IO bonuses and no procs/special bonuses.

    3) No enhancements at all.

     

    I wouldn't use any of these options, but the people who want to would be welcome to and it wouldn't affect me at all.

     

    Oh, have you taken a look at @Normal Thomas's proposal for different Notoriety options?

     

     

    I think it was a pretty neat spectrum - I wouldn't go no enhancements at all myself though: missing is not fun.

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    30 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

    As notoriety option would be intriguing. I'd use it once in a while just to see which of the set bonuses would be removed from my character randomly from time to time. 🙂 

     

    I'd personally see such a suggestion as more fitting for Incarnate enemies that suppress Incarnate powers for a time rather than set bonuses myself - endgame mechanics as opposed to a Notoriety option.

    • Like 1

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    11 hours ago, RunoKnows said:

    I just took a look at your proposal in the first post and I'm all for it -- if the notoriety system can be modified, that might indicate a very promising future for players who want to partake in a "Hard Mode" at say, 50+5x10, or what have you... or even to make missions and story arcs easier with-- I don't know, a 'Story Mode' notoriety setting or something, for those who simply want to experience the many stories across blue, red, and gold-side

     

    There are several benefits to a difficulty/notoriety option that lets us toggle off IO set bonuses -- heck, maybe a separate additional option that lets us toggle off Incarnate powers, too. It could be fun to challenge our characters by running missions, task forces or AE content without the benefit of sets -- and the more ways there are to optionally add varying levels of challenges and trials to handel for those who want them, the better. That way the choice is there for people who want it, but it does not erase the hard work and time of players who might not

     

    Ultimately I feel like the important takeaway here is that it would be an optional setting that players could toggle on or off as they please. We don't have to have it on if we don't want it on, but it would be an extremely useful utility for the reasons outlined in earlier posts; it can be hard to get an idea of how easy or how punishing an AE arc might be for those who want to play it before being level capped, or if they're missing IO sets/uniques/procs or have little to no Incarnate powers.

     

    Glad to hear you like the proposed implementation! I was definitely trying for a suggestion that was non-invasive as possible, and relatively easy in terms of implementation (at least I'd hope so) - having a Notoriety option that suppresses set bonuses felt like the best in my eyes, as opposed to introducing tougher enemies or, say, permanently adjusting a player's stats.

     

    I do think a toggle providing options for suppressing different Incarnate powers might be interesting too - I believe @oedipus_tex for instance has mentioned his qualms with the Judgement powers a while back. So I can see some teams finding that sort of thing desirable as well.

     

    That being said, I'm not sure if the game really can properly scale past +4/x8, at least without a lot of work behind the scenes, given how it's built. I think @macskull has touched on this here, as have I in my original post. It's why I thought that introducing something like this would provide some more challenge for the people that desire it, quickly and easily - game content will generally always be balanced around SO enhancements, go past that, and such players need to start actively seeking such content out (hey there Rularuu Soldiers, and 801).

     

    Thanks again for taking your time to respond! 😊

    • Like 2

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    14 hours ago, RogueWolf said:

    Being able to switch off IO set bonuses for the team as a noteriety options sounds like an elegant solution to a problem. Those who don't think it's a problem can ignore it. Those of us who want everyone on a team to actually feel more involved instead of letting four OP builds plow through the whole thing by themselves can set it. They they have a simple tag their for their LFG callouts to attract like minded players. I think it would create a better environment for the whole community.

     

    Glad to hear you like the sound of it! I wanted to look for something that was minimally disruptive and fairly easy for the devs to implement (as opposed to creating new content to continually scale to stronger and stronger characters) - the game content'll always be balanced around SOs, so those who want challenge should be able to access that sort of difficulty on the fly if they so wish, while also enjoying the things that set bonuses provide, at least in my opinion. 😄

    • Like 2

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    5 minutes ago, CFIndustries said:

    Well, since you kindly invited me to give my 2¢ worth…I quickly skimmed (sorry, crushed for time and I try not to dive too deep on these sorts of things…) and I understand the gist to be the "no set bonuses" noteriety as an option?

     

    I'd have no use for it. I have no idea how the math would work out. Since I assume my "kitted" builds are leaning on their bonuses as part of the equation, I assume such a noteriety setting would fundamentally change the playstyle. (NOTE: I don't make my own kitted builds…I try to use MIDS on my own and my brain melts…but I had a friend who made kitted builds custom-tailored to my playstyle back on Live and I still have those builds around.)

     

    For example, I know a couple alts I have which would be gutted losing Recovery bonuses, others where the Recharge bonus loss would be terrible. This doesn't even include the +acc, +tohit, +def, +res, and other mechanics which truly spin my brain around with the math involved. This is a game, in the end, not work.

     

    I'd have to re-learn how to play such an alt, and…what would be the point? Wouldn't be fun.

     

    I don't have that problem with alts that I play from 0–50 on nothing but crafted generic IOs…nothing to relearn since I've been "gimped," as it were, from the get-go.

     

    Hey, no worries! Thanks for dropping by and sounding out your voice on this - plus, I think it gives a little bit of insight into the strong emotion behind @Voltak's different posts on this matter, in that they personally might feel similarly to you.

     

    For some players, as @MTeague has said before, this just wouldn't be their jam, but I'd like to think that making this a Notoriety option will best accommodate people from across the entire game. So long as such a difficulty setting on a team is announced beforehand (like any Notoriety change), things are gravy.

     

    In other words, for people with no interest in this, it will not affect them, which is ideal - I'd never want to propose something that'd make people downright object to it, or force a different playstyle onto others.

    • Like 1

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    13 hours ago, MTeague said:

    I love the idea. 

    Now, it's true it may affect some builds more than others.... but I would actually see the main use case for this not being solo, but doing some "oldschool" runs of misc content for giggles.

     

    Absolutely, 100%, it would have to be advertised. 

    a) Just basic politeness / common decency

    b) enlightened self interest.  no team leader enjoys when people ragequit in a huff not realizing due to wildly different team expectations. (well, okay, there's always that one guy who takes sadistic pleasure out of it....)  Most people just want to put together a team and keep that team for a few hours anyway.  If I'm recruiting I want people to know up front what the deal would be.

     

    But if we take set bonuses off the table, okay.  Maybe your perfect IO build now lacks severe amount of recharge. Maybe your Perma-Dom can't Perma-Dom anymore. Or your may find that you selected so few attacks because your focused on a few *very* hard hitting winners that came back fast enough with set bonus recahrge.  And then you're feeling sliightly gimped at first. I get that. 

     

    Then the /kin on the team Speed Boosts you, and the Rad Emission guy hits you with Accelerated Metabolism. 

    You're back in business, wrecking face, but you're keeping an eye on your buffs and staying in buff range again. 

     

    Or you lose a ton of End Reduction and your toggles are bleeding your blue bar dry. 

    Until you get Speed Boosted. And the Empath uses Recovery Aura.

     

    Or your Defense are now so low you feel like a fragile porcelin vase lying in the middle of the mud on Monster Truck Sunday. 

    Until you get Bubbled by the Force Fielder. And maybe pick up a Fortitude from the Empath. 

     

    Is this going to be everyone's cup of tea?  F**K NO.

    I'm sure some players would shake their head and wonder why it was enjoyable to have to check in with buffers, to wait for debuffs to be applied, instead fo just being the invincible tankmage. And hey, that's cool. Perfectly Cool and Froody for anyone to say "nope, not interested" and ignore the recruitment, just as I ignore all speedruns and incarnate runs.

     

    Why make it a Notoriety Option?

    To allow people who haven't specifically planned for this, to decide "what the hell, it might be fun" on the spur of the moment, without needing to spend the time to setup an extra build (assuming they have one to spare) and then crafting the plain IO's or buying the requisite SO's to slot in every power, and then having to deal wtih both builds on every respec.  This lets people TRY IT, just on a What-The-Bleep, 100% risk free. 

     

    /signed /endorsed

     

    I'm very happy to hear that this idea interests you!

     

    And I'm of similar mind - per @golstat2003's post, changes to the game's Notoriety should definitely be said beforehand in a team to let others know what they're getting into: that's indeed just common decency. I know I certainly wouldn't appreciate walking into a +4/x8 without being told that was the case.

     

    I also think your post addresses a lot of @Voltak's questions about the why behind such a feature too, better than I could have expressed for sure, which is a double bonus. 😊

    • Like 2

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    4 hours ago, biostem said:

    I'd love to see more difficulty settings made available:

     

    No set bonuses

    No enhancement bonuses at all

    All minions/lieutenants/bosses

    And pretty much any combination people can think of.

     

    13 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

    All or nothing.  OP lost me at numina proc as an example being omitted.  This would also mean Miracle, panacea and Perf Shifter

    Plus the enhancements used are all hybrids, even without set bonuses you are still pretty well off since you also have healthy amount of rech/end on top off acc/dmg in attacks.  ATO/Purple/PvP pretty much max out acc/dmg/rech/end in attacks

     

    While being killable sounds like what the OP wants, the absolute power of IOs turning Footstomp into a 9s cooldown, or nukes being down to 60 seconds, etc is still there.  In which case, all you need with this whole idea upside down is making a bubbler/ice shielder/sonic reso a mandatory member

     

    Hey there, thanks for dropping by!

     

    The intent in allowing procs to function as usual was mainly to preserve an IO build's endurance gain, similar to if they had just slotted out their Fitness pools normally (i.e. like an SO build). I even highlight Panacea as an example when I expand upon my reasoning about this here - needless to say, this was indeed quite intentional.

     

    If that's not to your preference due to the other things that procs can do, I think that's all the more reason to provide some additional Notoriety options to increase its granularity, such as was proposed over here - can't go wrong with more options! 😄

    • Like 3

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted · Edited by Blackfeather

    On 3/23/2021 at 8:10 AM, Replacement said:

    Fun idea, and I really like the idea of adding new notoriety options for increasing difficulty... But I don't want this one particularly. At least it's not at the top of my list.

     

    Reason: this affects some builds more adversely than others. Note, I am not talking about player combinations (particular power sets or ATs), I mean more like "I modded for a lot of recovery and endurance modification via sets instead of endurance reduction enhancements directly, and now my toggles are too expensive." Someone else might have the same build except they built the recovery into their base enhancements and used sets for a more "icing on the cake" stat.

     

    I'm sure someone will read this far and say "good, that's the point." But the issue is if this difficulty setting has any tangible reward whatsoever, it selects for builds that are less impacted by the loss.

     

    This is why I hate "mutators" in games. If you have a mode that makes enemies explode on death, you have just encouraged the playerbase to self-select away from melee, leading to homogeny in what people build. This isn't so different.

     

    I should stress this is not a huge deal given the rest of CoH's non-elitist nature, especially if there are other modes. But if you have all these options, you know it's a matter of weeks until players begin measuring their performance of a given build based on its ability to clear "full" notoriety.

     

    (Interesting solution: don't let players activate all notoriety options. If you have up to 3 to choose from a list of 10, this would work well as one of them)

     

    Hmm...I'll admit I'm not entirely convinced, at least with the example that was brought up - taking a look at practically any IO build on the forums for instance (and of course my own!), both the Health and Stamina pools are generally slotted with procs with a side of Performance Shifter: Endurance Modification, but usually not much more in terms of slotting there.

     

    It's for that reason that only set bonuses were suppressed here: procs make up a lot of an IO build's endurance gain with any endurance discounts/gain usually coming as a side effect of attempting to achieve some other goal - endurance management usually isn't a thing that's considered necessary to actively slot towards outside of the usual Panacea/Shifter/Miracle, which would function as-is under this Notoriety option. On the other hand, attempting to softcap one's defenses, or trying to reach perma-Hasten is, for example.

     

    I'm also not that convinced that this proposal would appeal to players who wish for maximum performance either: having their IO set bonuses suppressed isn't going to be doing favours for them in that regard, outside of bragging rights (which, given how that just amounts to playing the game as it's balanced around, really isn't that much to talk about).

     

    That being said, I do agree that multiple different modes of difficulty would be neat - I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts on @Normal Thomas's own proposal here, along with the kinds of Notoriety options that'd appeal to you!

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    5 hours ago, Normal Thomas said:

    This is a cool idea. I am all for more novel forms of introducing difficulty than simply adding extra numbers to enemy levels or spawn sizes. I however, would add a sliding scale like:

     

    Max 3 set bonuses (Rule of three)

    Max 1 set bonus (Rule of one)

    No set bonuses (Rule of none)

    No set bonuses, procs or global enhancements (Classic mode)

     

    Considering how the game considers set bonuses, global enhancements and procs and the like as powers I imagine it wouldn't take too much tweaking to limit them in any capacity. Plus, you're going to have to categorize all of these powers to limit them for no set bonuses, you may as well allow for a full range of options.

     

    2 hours ago, Greycat said:

    Given this is one of my "I wish they'd limited it *there* to begin with" items (in the inevitable "what's breaking the game/making it too easy" threads) I'd frankly love to run with this. Just to see how big of a difference it makes.  It'd likely have to be with a set group of people, but still.

     

    It'd definitely be a neat idea, and another way of upping the game's difficulty progressively - I know I've been on groups that go "let's start off with +1, and see how we go" and so on to see how the team functions, and adjusting it to find a nice medium. Having another spectrum of toggles that'd affect the game would be interesting to play around with, I think.

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    On 3/23/2021 at 4:11 AM, JAMMan0000 said:

    I can relate to this. Once getting to 50 and incarnates, teams are so overpowered, its not fun any more. Then my 50 pretty much just gets shelved.

    I often find myself, looking for lower level teams to join, just I/we are handicapped enough that there is a little bit of a challenge and some satisfaction from teaming. 

    For me most of my issues could be resolved if there was just a Notoriety option to set my level to any level below my 'natural' level, and use all of the existing standard exemping rules to handicap my powers available, IO scaling, set bonuses, etc. That way;

    - If I don't want to play with Incarnates, I could just set my level to 44, get exempted down to 44, recruit my team (all exempted down to 43) and do regular PI level content.

    - If I want to do earlier out leveled content missed previously, I just set my level to the appropriate level, get exempted down, recruit my team and go for it. 

     

    Being able to set our level would increase our access to content and allow us to control difficulty to keep the fun and challenging at any level.

     

    Going to start off by saying that for me, I personally have fun across the entire spectrum of the CoH level range for different reasons, which I can see why that could be a potential turn off for some, hence the introduction of additional difficulty options to help cater for that, regardless of level.

     

    This does sound quite interesting - it sounds almost like the ability to exemplar down regardless of location/content. While I'm not sure how that'd translate in-game, it might be a fun discussion to look into.

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Greycat said:

    Which makes sense if the set bonuses themselves are what's being disabled. So something like the Command of the Mastermind set would still give you the +Defense pet aura (since it's part of one of the enhancements,) but not the damage, recharge or health boosts (the set bonuses for 2, 3 or 4 pieces.)

     

    That's right - I used the proc enhancements from Stalker's Guile and Assassin's Mark as examples of things that'd continue working under this new setting in my original post. Though that being said, I think Command of the Mastermind and the other pet defense/resistance aura IOs function as globals rather than as procs, so they might also be disabled under this new Notoriety option...not sure though.

    New Notoriety Option: No Enhancement Set Bonuses

    in Suggestions & Feedback

    Posted

    6 hours ago, Doomguide2005 said:

    Thanks, that's what I thought you intended as globals are treated like set bonuses and the others are not.  Seems like an idea worth pursuing, an intermediate difficultly between no enhancements and all things IO in use.

     

    Happy to clear things up a bit! And yup, hence the whole framing as "no set bonuses" - given this constraint, I visualise enhancements such as Sudden Acceleration: Knockback to Knockdown working as normal under this Notoriety option too.

    • Like 1
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