Coyote

I cannot find the post, but I thought that someone doing a lot of proc testing... either @Sir Myshkin or @Bopper said that FF proc durations ADD to any existing stack's duration, rather than refreshing it. That also seems to bear out some quick testing I did, where Tornado and Lighting Storm with FF loaded fired off one after the other... and the buff icon remained for longer than 5 seconds after the last.

The reasons for nerfing overpowered sets, perfectly stated. OP sets don't literally lower the number of available choices, but do heavily restrict the number of desirable choices.

So far, this thread is delivering on the entertainment value.

Mostly agree with Hopestar's assessment. Dark is very strong IF you manage location successfully. Works better with ranged pets so you can pull spawns into fights rather than following crazy Ninjas into fights with mobs who aren't debuffed. Time is almost as strong, but a lot easier to manage. Both suffer against some mob types that bring a lot of +Def, but Dark does have a lot of -Damage and a bit more control than Time, which is what you need against Rularuu eyeballs rather than just +Def or -ToHit. Kinetics so far is working reasonably well as long as I can use Tankermind to pull attacks through the MM's defense and resists and have Bodyguard mode spread the damage around so that Ninjas aren't getting one-shotted by focusing damage on a single one. The ones who die are always the ones who run off solo to kill a single mob away from me. But while it's solid if HEAVILY micromanaged to keep the fight near the MM and the aggro on you, if you're not going to use Tankerminding strategies with it, I would put it a lot lower... dead Fulcrum Shifted pets do no damage. Storm is similar to Kinetics: It depends on Tankerminding and Hurricane to minimize incoming damage to pets, and if you can have that working well you can leverage its high damage. If not, then you may lose more damage to pets dying than you gain from Storm's powers. Due to pulling far more aggro, Tankerminding is a lot easier than with Kinetics, but on the other hand it has a bit of Resist and Defense rather than a very strong heal, so the aggro part is easier but the surviving aggro part isn't as easy. And unlike Kinetics, you can't split damage to pets and then heal everyone with an AoE.

Alright, I think I've decided on a general build. I may adjust the slotting on the henchmen in order to squeeze out more damage or based on whether they're endurance draining themselves. Achilles Heel went into the Spec Ops rather than the Soldiers so that it activates at one level higher, but I may swap it with a defense IO from the Soldiers in order get AH up more often on the targets if the Spec Ops don't push it out enough. Burst and Slug are both over 100 DPA and I have not much to do besides add to the shooting, so that will help with the low Mercs damage. Repulsion Bomb and M30 add over 300 AoE damage for fight openers to help get rid of minions faster. Henchmen are softcapped with Power Boosted shields, and a bit better once the Alpha slot is active. It looks reasonable and should put out a steady stream of low and annoying DoT damage as well as a metric ton of shell casings littering the office building from the door to the last boss.

Tornado is one of the best powers for a Storm, and I think it should always be 6-slotted, for a few reasons: 1) great damage for a very fast animation time. Even if it loses some to moving around it's still worth the animation time. 2) great control on Bosses. Once the minions are out of the way it has fewer targets, and it will put a Mag 2 Stun on a Boss a decent amount of the time, which stacks with Thunderclap, and will juggles a Boss around pretty well. Excellent defensive use. 3) Force Feedback proc in it is too good to pass up. 4) Even if damage from it doesn't seem relevant, it takes -Res IOs, and since you can have 2 up at once, that makes up for the fact that the chance to proc every 10 seconds isn't great. You can get a decent -Res out of them (I think a single Tornado averages -6% debuff over its span, so two would probably average about 9-10%).

I think it's because the knockback version pulses too fast with too high a chance to knockback. As a knockback that knocks mobs out of its own area, it just makes it work very consistently (but self-defeatingly since unless you're in a small room the mobs will bounce out after a fall or two). But as a knockdown, if it were as consistent, basically it would knock every mob in the area down and just keep dribbling them like basketballs. I don't know if they'd get to act again. It would overtake Seeds of Confusion as the best AoE control in the game.

Hey, some people enjoy napping 😄

Heh. I'm doing Night Ward on a Blaster at +1/x6 (I think First Ward was the same). I'm waiting for the Defend the Mansion mission to teach me humility and to repeatedly rez-kill me like every other character of mine who soloed Night Ward. But the real test will be the last mission against the pair of AVs. I find Night Ward especially, but also First Ward, an excellent test of "is this really a powerful character, or do they just beat up Council and DE for a living?"

I believe so, but I don't have a link directly from a developer saying so. But I thought that they seemed to work the same, so it's probably the case.

It is certainly expensive as it is, but a version can also be done relatively on the cheap with other sets slotted instead of the purple sets. You end up with a larger downtime on PA and then it may be reasonable to overslot its Recharge. Apocalypse -> Decimation Ragnarok -> Positron Coercive Persuasion -> Malaise (5 slots so you don't lose the no-aggro effect, and a 6th for Acc/Confuse/Recharge) 2xSoulbound in PA -> 2x Call to Arms (A/D/R and E/D/R) Frozen Blast -> Annihilation -Res 2xSoulbound in Tornado -> E/D/R from Expedient Reinforcement and E/D/R from either Call to Arms (cheaper) or Overwhelming Force (more expensive) If the PvP damage procs in Blind are too expensive, go with the cheap damage procs from the Hold sets, then use the 4 slots for either 4x Basilisk or 3xThunderstrike (no Recharge for best effect from the procs) plus one D/E from any other set. Same with Arcane Bolt, change the PvP proc to a 3rd Thunderstrike, or go to 5x Entropic Chaos for some Recharge to make up what was lost from the other sets Controller ATO in Thunder Clap -> Stupefy Try all that and you still end up with a very effective build that uses nothing more expensive than LotGs other than one Panacea proc.

Ooh! ooh! I'll take a shot! Is it... STATISTICS??!?!! 😄

😮 Controllers have been known as one of the main powerhouses for soloing AVs for a long time. Illusion/Rad primarily, but also Ill/Cold, Thermal, Storm, Time... as well as other builds. Illusion/Storm can put out enough damage to solo +4 AVs in general. Although I haven't cracked Siege yet... For your build, I have three things to suggest: 1: Tornado is a high-damage power. You're slotting it for Stun, that's a large part of the reason why you're not killing things especially fast. Put a Force Feedback: +Recharge IO in it, that will more than make up the loss of the Recharge set bonuses, and then slot it for Damage and Recharge primarily, maybe with some Endurance Reduction. Personally I suggest a KB to KD converter since it will cause it to just grind mobs down with constant damage instead of tossing them, chasing them, tossing them, etc. 2: Lightning Storm, like Tornado, can use a Force Feedback proc. Each proc here or in Tornado is effectively worth more than a LotG IO, so ... they're well worth the investment. 3: While getting 5% Recharge from Steamy Mist is nice... I would clear some slots and put the +Defense unique Resist IOs (Steadfast and Gladiator) into it. 6% Defense is a far bigger benefit than 5% Recharge. Edit: for comparison, my build. PA plays permanently due to running Ageless and the Force Feedback procs in Tornado/Lightning Storm, and on the offensive side it has enough damage to solo most +4 AVs (+3 with the level shift).

Most Controller Immobilizes (including Fire ones) have a 10 second period after application where they convert KnockBACK to KnockDOWN. So as long as you're going to spam them, you don't need a KB converter in Bonfire. That's why they bounce up and down for a while, then get knocked out. Bonfire with a KB converter changes its pulse period from better than one per second to once every two seconds. That's still enough to be great... a good chance to knockdown mobs every two seconds with no drawbacks is a great power. If you don't put a converter in it, then it will do it more often, which makes it better... but only as long as you keep spamming Immobs (and the AoE one is expensive, especially if you're also running Hot Feet). A knockback patch that knocks mobs out of its own area is not as good as a knockdown patch that operates at a lower frequency, which is why many posters will advise to slot a KB to KD converter into Bonfire. Personally, I love it with the KD converter... this allows it to be used in another area, or around a corner, without having to concentrate on that area with Fire Cages. So I can Flashfire/Fire Cages a spawn, and then if adds come in, Bonfire can be thrown at them without worrying about applying Fire Cages. Mobs generally run into it, and fall down regularly. When they get up, they take a ranged shot... and then fall down again. The only mobs who are resistant to it are mobs like Warwulves who don't have many ranged attacks so won't stay in it, and move fast enough to get up and run out before it knocks them down again.

That was my argument, buried back near the beginning of the thread... the set bonuses for Defense and Recharge are out of whack with regards to other set bonuses like Accuracy, Damage, Regeneration, etc. Some of it is because of high bonuses (Defense) compared to low bonuses (Damage), and some of it is because of the diminishing value of bonuses (enough +Recovery is enough, so building for more is wasting set bonuses that could go to something that is actually needed). Everyone in build-design threads suggests raising Defense and Recharge... unless a character is just cripplingly low in value, nobody suggest making major changes to get Recovery in, +Damage is almost never mentioned, etc. Resistance gets a nod as probably being in 3rd place, but well behind the two leaders. This is unbalanced, and should be addressed... which would open up more builds as competitive against the best other builds.

That's why I team at lower or mid levels, and generally solo at higher or Incarnate levels. Teaming at 50 is a blur of damage and dead bodies. Soloing, however, you can challenge yourself while you can read the story and see lots and lots of new enemy types. Plus old ones upgraded with new spiritual leaders.

Here is a version based off that build. It relies on Barrier to cap Ranged/AoE, but maintains S/L/E caps and almost F/C caps without Barrier. Domination recharge is down to 84 seconds (but that's with Hasten up all the time, which it won't be... it will be a tight click when Hasten is down).

You must require: no use of AoE Immobs to convert knockback to knockdown. Release the Knockback!!!

Mids shows accuracy increases for set bonuses, but they don't apply to pet powers. In this case you can't go by the Mids numbers, unfortunately.

In general, as kiramon says, any Kinetics character is free to drop all Damage slotting after taking Fulcrum Shift. Not necessarily true if you want to solo AVs, or with all-ranged pets, but it's a good rule of thumb for most characters and attacks. Be aware, however, that global bonuses, including Damage and Accuracy do NOT transfer to summons like pets. So you need to make sure that Singularity has enough accuracy to hit with just its slotting and Tactics. Also, slotting an Alpha slot with Accuracy would transfer since it's treated like enhancing the power.

Dark/Savage. Dark Control likes being able to start with the opening cones (Fear, Immob, and damage), and then using Feral Charge to instantly close range so that it can continue with Heart of Darkness. Then, if you put a couple of -Res IOs into Unkindness to boost the damage of the following attacks and you put damage procs into Heart of Darkness, you can do a lot of AoE damage while still having mobs debuffed, Feared, and Stunned. Mind/Savage... Mind has no reason to enter melee range, and Terrify isn't very useful in melee. Mind works better as an all-ranged set, while Savage Melee has two PBAoE attacks that give you reason to go into melee. It's true that you can back up while firing Unkindness, but with a Mind Control character I'd rather stay all at range and focus more on single-target clearing... Ice, Fire, and Dark are all more range-oriented. Also, with Mind, attacks break both the Sleep and the Fear, so if I DID go into melee with one, it would be with a secondary that knocks down or mezzes when it attacks... Energy, Martial, Earth. Not Savage, which will break everyone out of Sleep/Fear with all of its AoE attacks while doing no mezzing and no knockdowns.

Lazygen? Sleepgen? (re)Generation Zzzz? 😛

My TW/Reg Brute planned build: That's at Level 50, without Incarnates. Barrier would be at least +5%, and Melee Core at least +17% but only half the time (but Regen works very well with temporary buffs as it can fill the 2 minute Melee Core downtime with MoG -> IH -> MoG). Granted, this requires micro-management of defensive powers, but frankly that's why I like it: toggle and forget defensive sets aren't that interesting to me. So if you're willing to micro-manage, it's not like it has no Resists or Defenses. BTW, Defenses (with Defensive Sweep, and no DDR, so they won't perform quite as nice as they seem):

Have patience, I'm sure a good build will come along. Until then, here's something to tide you over... | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1545;737;1474;HEX;| |78DA65944B4F135114C7CF74A6F26AA550A0E52D056C69A150756B88889A088D90A| |ADB6602D7D258693345A30B177E03458D1B1FB874E30730C6887B23F270EF46CBA3| |4044092ECC78E69E5368324D9ADFBDFF7BCF39FF73E7CEC4EF8EBADE5E7A300C8AF| |B7C46CFE79389393D735318CEB89E4A4FA9005039A2A7668430F40A9CB4F072322E| |32424413FA1D3D2568D2555A1A1537C46C5E4447D2D9E41523A5CFA6A792E78C5B5| |9035C13D96C263A2EF45C7A36E596938BE9D4CC1CCEAAE52C911362BAB6B46B5A18| |F99974AEF9422E3D152D654F646F6792713D3F278C7B7E743480FFF721E09FE984A| |71A404C03C743E623A236CF7C4C3CF684F8A31BC31419AB42230E82B836A64A56EE| |31FFE172BB061F42BC15EB28ABAA8CAF5E667E25BABE538CEBB343F2F822D2AB410| |1EBA854C7A93EE3B579A2E73AD5F55C23D64F127BF635C935ACEBE4BACE35AA53BF| |426C5862861D924D11661264EC378CADA058A87843F5D6D14B15F75CC53DB779881| |D5E6603F127EEAD61DF353E459E83FF14F5E8FF4D6CF9C3DC27B61D107D58D8CDB5| |DD21F2B381F96A299FF911B53AEEABEE353D8F8EE7C4132F982F99AF885D0BC46DC| |CE3655FDE22D5EB2A30D789DD1BCC4D626C8BA8A0AF46F6D538810868A0A2E6A37C| |8AEF2FC7717F8BE8B3997D36F3FE9E49E2C9ABCC04739AFA0CF2F9EFA0CF56796B4| |C67EB7DF21EAC57E539069B287F1F30B71D52EFF3D35C434FEDE409DAF9397D422F| |9DECA5B348FBC3EB4C8E0F9FA53BD0CF79FB8789D6F1043836B00A72CFC017E6127| |38538B8CC2C50CE007AE9E5F3E98D506FFDCC03174088CF33C43EADA38F90A646F6| |E8DE0DEE1063BF98BBC426CC1DE53EA31C5F87DA106B437C375BB5C3F7DC6C3B1A5| |B53D384B04D19B229319B72DAA69CB129E33665423BFC128022959D6A54D82F5C26| |BFDBE59ADCB57BA428C05F81D25B5EB4EDDEB2DE15EE77B36C5C2C7B87AA3C603D6| |5391641EB5BA6C9F1B8171F1FEBEF02D658DE4173A14C1F0B1F7EFBCCFFF7F91081| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|

Gotta agree with this. I'm not sure if it was INTENDED to be balanced around SOs at start, but soon as the Global Defense Nerf happened, it's safe to say that the original balance equations were no longer that accurate. Then you bring in Enhancement Diversification, and they pretty much became obsolete. Then you add in IOs, and they become super-obsolete. Since we're already effectively playing a game based around obsolete balance equations (which did get several balance updates in some cases), I think it's safe to say that changing the viewpoint from "the game is balanced around SOs" to "the game is balanced around IOs" isn't really going to cause any problems.