oldskool

You really want to know what Titan Weapons is like for Tankers? Well, its really quite simple. It's kinda like... "Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tight Gonna grab some afternoon delight My motto's always been 'when it's right, it's right' Why wait until the middle of a cold dark night? When everything's a little clearer in the light of day And we know the night is always gonna be there any way Thinkin' of you's workin' up my appetite Looking forward to a little afternoon delight Rubbin' sticks and stones together makes the sparks ingite And the thought of lovin' you is getting so exciting Sky rockets in flight Afternoon delight Afternoon delight Afternoon delight" Ok, maybe not that good but maybe close. "Afternoon delight!"

A good bit of secondaries are mixed defense type. Radiation/Electric/Fire is all resistance. Super Reflexes is all defense. Regeneration has little resistance and mostly active healing. I guess that is its own thing. Off the top of my head the following sets have some amount of resistance (even if small) and some amount of defense (even if small): Ninjutsu Energy Aura Ice Armor Willpower Bio Armor Invulnerability Dark Armor Am I missing any or did I just rattle off everything available to Sentinels?

Fair enough. Water Blast makes good use out of more recharge to smooth out the attack sequence. Bio Armor also makes good use out of recharge to make your active defenses (Ablative Carapace, Rebuild DNA, Parasitic Leech) available more often. So the powersets have a joint benefit in pursuing heavy recharge builds. Water Blast isn't very strong on single-target, but Bio Armor has an adaption that gives bonus damage to compensate a bit. Water Blast has a lot of soft control (knockdown) which works very well with high regeneration secondaries (like Bio Armor can be). So there are aspects of each powerset that help out the other to create synergy. It is a very good pairing when talking pure game mechanics but it could be a terrible combination for someone that didn't enjoy either set. Hope that explains my initial reaction a little better.

You may want the Rebirth Destiny and/or the Melee Hybrid. Willpower on Sentinels never gets anywhere near the max levels of regen possible since Up to the Challenge is a static regeneration number. My Beam/WP has around 750% regeneration. I built for hit points, defense, and recharge while taking on some regen bonuses as side perks. That character regenerates health on par with a Scrapper in melee with some amount of saturation due to enemies. It doesn't really touch my SS/WP Brute that can heal for the same amounts with 0 enemies in range. But that Melee Hybrid will juice your regen for a bit as well as Rebirth. So if you want to have moments of max/near-max regeneration on your Sentinel it is possible with the Incarnate system.

I don't know why it would be a bad idea unless you hate playing the character.

Perhaps some of these other threads can give you ideas. These aren't the only threads about this topic, but these are probably the most relevant (and recent). Threads discussing tanky Sentinels: Different question, similar theme (durability):

Regardless of power set pairings, I gravitate towards Musculature Core as my first choice. The reason why is that I find boosting damage is more valuable, for me, than the other options more often than not. For some characters I will invest some of the Incarnate Salvage I get early on into a T1 choice that I may not pursue beyond that (though I often do). For example, Spiritual's T1 gives out 33% recharge modification. This can be very helpful in the early post-50 realm when a build is not yet finished and I am not fully IOed to my liking. I'll just leave that T1 alone while I invest into another Alpha that may be more important to my final build goals. You can't use multiple types of same Incarnate category like Alpha at the same time, but there is nothing to stop you from having various types in reserve. My main Sentinel has a few variable options (of at least T3 quality) in the Destiny, Interface, and Lore categories. So you do not need to marry yourself to a single choice, but I do understand some people do not wish to bother building multiples of the same type.

So these power sets are like talking apples and potatoes. They are both good sets but their strengths are vastly different. They both have areas where they perform well, or exceptionally so, and there is no indication at all as to what your playstyle or goals are. Anyway, I'll give you a run down on how I view these sets and maybe that will give you some fuel to make a decision. I happen to like both, but if I had a bias for min-max in PvE I would pick SR over WP. SR: Water Blast has a heal over time effect in Dehydrate which offers some synergy to Super Reflexes. SR has the potential to soft-cap defenses with IO sets and extra pool powers. You can also take an absorb shield with Master Brawler and then layer all of that with Dehydrate. Quickness includes 20% global recharge which can make building for recharge cheaper if that is your goal. Water Blast is also very friendly to damage procs in its powers. Water Blast is not that strong on single-target damage (AoE is its strength) but damage procs can be a welcome improvement. Since SR + power pools/Epics (Psychic Mastery) can cover your defense needs, you can explore better damage options in some of your powers. SR has a weakness to some psychic attacks like Dominate and its RNG nature can be frustrating while leveling (before you become a fortress). TL;DR SR Verdict: SR is better for min/max content and long-term build designs. It is, in my opinion, one of the top sets for those that plan long-term in PvE play. WP: Willpower can increase hit points easier and can potentially hard cap its Smashing/Lethal resistance. It is not easy, nor is it cheap, to soft-cap defenses with IO sets alone forcing you to try and stack more powers to cover the gaps. You can push into the 30% defense realm without completely screwing yourself but you will not have as easy of a time making room for damage procs like SR can. Willpower has no direct heal at all and relies solely on regeneration rate (its strong regen, but not THAT strong). Dehydrate's heal isn't a waste. Furthermore, Water Blast includes a lot of knockdown which has a lot of synergy with allowing you time to regenerate. Willpower can feel a bit smoother earlier on due to Quick Recovery, but you will need more powers/planning to cover defense gaps. Still, the knockdown elements of Water Blast are a form of mitigation in their own right that works well with the layered nature of Willpower. Willpower has strong resistance to, and some moderate defense of, psychic damage. However, Willpower does not have very high innate resistance to elemental damage types. Instead it has high defense but not nearly as good as what SR can easily achieve. There is no appreciable defense debuff resistance within WP to protect what it does have against debuffing enemy factions. Due to the layered nature of Willpower, this set is less friendly to damage proc solutions to up your single target damage. TL;DR WP Verdict: Willpower can feel more comfortable earlier on. This is true especially for a more casual player. Willpower responds well to the invention system but it requires some significant planning in order to maximize its effectiveness.

For what you are doing, I would not recommend skipping powers out of Water Blast. If you aren't min/maxing, then you don't need an Epic/Patron power at all. Non-defense based Sentinels can be decent in the current state of PvP. Certain primary sets can be made to be very competitive in PvP (Dark Blast, Ice Blast and Psychic Blast). Water Blast is very AoE-oriented which makes it more friendly to PvE than it does PvP. You can potentially make Water/Will work for PvP but you'd probably want a different build for it. Willpower can push hit points (necessary for PvP), and Water Blast can take on damage procs (also necessary for PvP).

Sentinels do ranged damage while having better durability than the other ranged archetypes earlier. That's what they do. They're not a support/tank/pet/control class. The inherent (Opportunity), as it currently stands - subject to change apparently, offers some very limited potential for team offensive support. However, that tiny bit of support is not something I'd worry a lot about. Damage is your primary job along with not falling on your face. What part of Water and/or Willpower is the portion that is getting you hung up on the "not sure what exactly to do with it"? Water Blast has great area of effect damage options. You can do so-so single-target, but AOE should be your jam. Willpower is one of, if not the most, hands off defensive power set in the game. Willpower is quite simple to work with if you understand the most basic features of the game mechanics regarding enhancements.

I'll add that I also enjoy BS quite a bit on Stalker but mine is paired with Shield. Kat is also a great primary in its own right but I like it for the style more on Scrappers. Now, that bit I quoted. DB DPS on spreadsheets is for a build that pretty much ignores the bulk of the combo system (Empower can still be useful but requires Placate) and goes high amounts of recharge. Its possible with an expensive build. I'll say, I absolutely love my DB/EN and she is built to run the kind of attack chain that makes that DPS possible. That's not at all reflective of how you'll perform while leveling up nor is it going to be reflective of a build that isn't running some expensive IOs. I happen to like DB better on Stalker over Scrapper, but again this is a character purpose built to ignore the system it was intended to use. Broadsword OR Kat will feel smoother earlier and still do really damn well at 50+.

A Dark/DP doesn't really need to lose a lot of damage. You'll just want to adjust your build idea to accommodate it. Suppressive Fire on Defenders does little to no damage but it comes with a very long cool down making it friendly to damage procs. Suppressive Fire can take on multiple damage procs from the Hold category making it an ideal vehicle to deliver that type of bonus damage, if you want. With a heavy proc build, you can have a single target rotation constructed around the same types of attacks that a Sentinel may wish to use (Pistols, Executioner's Shot, Suppressive Fire, in my opinion). So single target can be very similar in method and delivery a bit different. Then you have to look at the AoE factors. Empty Clips, Bullet Rain, and Hail of Bullets have better target caps than a Sentinel does. There is no reason why you can't add some procs to Bullet Rain and make it more efficient. Due to the higher defensive and debuff numbers on the Defender, you can get away with having procs in your attacks easier than the Sentinel in question. I'll just add here... I've done this and it works for both Corruptor and Defender. Suppressive Fire + Petrifying Gaze in Dark Miasma can stack Hold. Chemical Rounds and Darkest Night help groups far earlier than a Sentinel can ever pull that off AND the numbers are far better on the Defender. I think Dark Miasma and Dual Pistols have group support synergy. Dual Pistols brings a number tools that can stack with Dark Miasma (slow, resistance debuff, damage debuff, etc.) and then some (negative defense in Pistols/Executioner's Shot using Standard Ammo). There is very little synergy between Dual Pistols and Dark Armor. You could leverage Standard Ammunition for the Stun in Suppressive Fire with Oppressive Gloom. You could leverage the damage debuff from Chemical Rounds to help reduce some damage taken with Dark Armor. That's about as far as the synergy goes. Cloak of Fear has nothing to stack with in Dual Pistols making it kind of "meh". Dark Armor also still has that knockback/down hole that can be annoying. Dark Armor has no T9 defense/resist power either. Dark Armor does not cap resistances on its own. Nor does it get close on soft-capping defense without a lot of help. You can cap resistance with the Fighting Pool (Tough) and Sorcery (Rune of Protection). You can push around 32% melee/range/aoe defense with Fighting (Weave), Leadership (Maneuvers), and Psi Mastery (Link Minds). It is tough to do all of that without some significant cuts to power choices and some pretty tight slot picks. Also, in order to really push defenses past 20% you're going to want set bonuses in your attacks to help get you there. Also going to add, I've done this too. I don't want to dissuade you or anyone from playing Dual Pistols/Dark Armor. I think the concept sounds cool AF and it would most likely be very fun. Dual Pistols can appreciate being in melee range due to Hail of Bullets and Dark Armor does have Cloak of Shadows to stealth you into position (ok, some more synergy). TL;DR: 1) Depending on how you build (procs vs full sets) the Defender vs Sentinel damage debate here may get more blurry than you think. 2) Defender is going to be hands down better in teams due to the power of Dark Miasma. Depending on build, the solo aspect wouldn't be too terrible either but might mature later than you care for. For support options, there is a lot of synergy. 3) The Sentinel will feel smoother from level 1 to 50+ and has far less of a noticeable power spike. Damage should feel more consistent earlier but could be a blurry line with a damage-focused Defender abusing procs. The combo has some, but not a lot, of synergy. In the Sentinel sub forum, there is a WIP on Sentinel sets. I have written one on Dark Armor and Dual Pistols if you wish to read more on either. I have played DP/Dark as Corruptor and Dark/DP as Defender. I think the Defender is stronger on the DP side but not nearly as noticeable on the Dark Miasma side. Honestly either are good choices. I also have played Dark Blast/Dark Armor, and currently Water Blast/Dark Armor Sentinels as well as Dual Pistols/Ninjutsu.

I play these two sets on different set ups. For my Water, I like to try and get some damage procs in Hydro Blast, and Dehydrate. For Bio Armor, I like to aim for recharge. There are a number of ways to handle this though depending on what you feel is most important (defense vs recharge vs damage procs).

I shouldn't be so broad then. My point is more about Sentinel secondaries, not who gets the most out of stuff like Weave.

Not really a guide, but yes, this has been discussed before. The thread below will tell you what the pool choices are if you keep reading it. Eventually, our community may make a guide/write-ups to discuss the merits of each pool. That currently doesn't exist. If you need more specifics, then please ask. We're all pretty willing to help even if we can be a little passionate about our own specific picks. 😉

I tossed my 2 cents into it for whatever it is worth. The current 70% defense value has always bugged me about Sentinels. I really have no interest in getting into circular arguments about how much influence I can spend to achieve soft-cap defense or not. That's not the issue. The issue, as I see it, is Sentinels are the only AT with 70% of the value on defensive powers. You'd think the AT would have something to compensate that like more damage or more team support. Yet, it doesn't have either. Seeing the statement that the original concept was that it could exceed Scrapper damage (conditionally) makes some sense as to why it may have a lower set of values on defense across the board. In practice I think this was a non-issue and should be worth revisiting as a reversal. That hit to defensive values goes beyond just how much defense/resistance you have innately but also impacts things like DDR too. It also seems to effect the healing category which is applicable to Life Drain in Dark Blast making it the weakest version of the power in the game for its utility. Sure, Mastermind Life Drain stinks on damage but it has the same 10% heal as a Blaster's version. Sentinel's get 6% on top of a power that does less damage than the T2 (Gloom). I also brought up the ATO uniques. If the inherent changes then the Opportunity Strikes would need to change too, but the Ward proc is equally in need of change. I'll test whatever comes up, but broad changes to the inherent are the least of my issues. It is the other stuff that works alongside the inherent that could use some work too.

I'm OK with the how the core mechanics of the inherent work. What I mean is that using a T1 activates X and T2 activates Y. If the function were ability agnostic that'd be great too. In real gameplay, the effects (bonus damage, resource restore) are so minor that these things do not influence what powers I take. I choose the T1 or T2 (or both) depending on my build goals and/or the DPA of the powers. The choice of which Opportunity to trigger isn't even a factor. That alone is pretty good reason to scrap it or buff. When the inherent has such a minimal impact to the play of the AT that you can ignore it entirely, then something is wrong. Anyway, since the AoE thing was addressed and explained that Sentinels are ranged Scrappers (as suspected) that's not worth discussing by me. The inherent may be on the chopping block too, and I really don't know what else I'd do to fix it. I will participate in whatever test version comes up since I'm pretty invested into the AT these days. So, that leaves a few other things that I would like to see done to "buff" the AT. 1) Revisit the AT defense scale modifier. Yes, players can cap resistance or softcap defense with some sets and influence spent. However, the AT defense scale modifier effects more than just defense or resistance in the Secondary. Things like crowd control protection are also linked to the defense modifier making the mez resistance weaker. Its a minor quibble for me, but it is something that bugs me. Also, sets like Super Reflexes that depend on defense debuff resistance have 70% the value of a Tanker set vs 75% the value in Scrapper/Stalker sets. So it feels a lot like Sentinels pay a LOT in their Secondaries just to have the ability to largely ignore CC effects AND play at range. In practice Sentinels are durable but is there a good reason for them to be the only AT in the game with less value in defensive powers across the board (both secondaries and pool powers)? If the AT did more damage and played more glass cannon, then I'd agree but that just isn't the case in real play. My suggestion is to raise their modifiers to 75% like Scrappers/Stalkers to whom they share more in common than they do Blasters/Defenders/Corruptors. 2) The ATOs need a serious review. The core set bonuses are OK. The uniques largely suck. This is a problem with a few ATs, but in Sentinels they are pretty terrible. Sentinel's Ward has granted me a whopping +19 absorb shield against level 54 enemies. WOW! Opportunity Strikes has the potential to be very powerful, but it is has a PPM value of 2 combined with a 50+% recharge bonus. You need powers on the extreme end of animation and recharge in order to make the proc trigger consistently. Combined with the current state of the inherent granting "meh" levels of performance, the Strikes ATO is not as useful as it sounds. I've gotten great results in very specific use cases but that is going to be well outside the majority of play. People shouldn't feel a need to do the amount of research necessary in order to get a moderate amount of output from their AT. Seeing as how the entire inherent may be changed, that would be a great opportunity (see what I did there?) to make the ATO uniques better. Ideally they would get the Stalker treatment where they can potentially shift your gameplay but I'd settle for useful in at least 70-80% of build cases. Currently their level of usefulness is in niche set ups. 3) Revisit some power changes. This was touched on already by a few people, but it is a big one. Some sets like Assault Rifle were hurt far more than it was helped by the port to Sentinel. Disorienting Shot is a T2 power and it is one of the best DPA powers in the set. Slug was moved up in selection tier but it takes a back seat to Disorienting Shot. The appeal of AR is how many targets it can hit with its cones. However, Sentinels have a lower cap which hurts the AoE flavor of the set and its single target potential wasn't improved to compensate. Sonic Blast is only cones but isn't so limited in targets. AR could benefit from a similar treatment. Dark Blast's Life Drain needs some tweaks. Honestly, I'd be happy with just increasing the heal to match the 10% value in Blaster/Defender/Corruptor versions. Psychic Blast's Psionic Strike (the snipe replacement) isn't worth the power pick for most players. Its DPA is pretty poor. Generally I don't think people like long animation powers. Psionic Strike could use a cutting down on its casting while evaluating the damage it deals. Same goes for Scramble Thoughts. I like Scramble Thoughts (hell, I like Psychic Blast!) but I feel like I am in a minority of players that thinks this set is even remotely OK. 4) If the old inherent stays or a new inherent runs on a build/spend mechanic, then please make sure powers are somewhat uniform. The amount of Opportunity generated by various power categories is currently not uniform. The PBAoE category seems to generate very little Opportunity meter vs others like Targeted AoE, Melee/Range, etc. For example, Hail of Bullets in Dual Pistols generates literally 1 point of Opportunity per activation. One. Just 1 point. That's not a flaw with Tier 9's. Geyser (Water Blaster) generates double digits in Opportunity meter. That too is a T9 that builds meter but it is not a PBAoE power. So no matter how the chips fall on the inherent, I'd love to see consistency in how it is handled. 5) Damage scalar. Sounds like this is on the radar regardless what happens to the inherent. Just chiming in that, I'll take it. 😉 I feel the Sentinel is far too penalized in the current Defense values for the current state of its damage output.

Everyone's opinion will be different. However, I will agree that any sets that can softcap your defenses and do so on the least investment are going to be very good. Any sets that can hard cap one or more categories of resistance are also going to be good (e.g., Invulnerability, Electric, etc.). I will 100000000% disagree about Willpower being all that good on Sentinels everyday of the week and twice on Sundays. It's decent, but its not as great as it sounds in my experience. I really like Willpower but the set was kicked down several pegs due to the lack of the scaling regeneration in Rise to the Challenge. Up to the Challenge (the Sentinel, static regeneration, version) doesn't compete well with its melee counterpart. You combine the lower overall regen, and the lower hit points, and Willpower just straight up doesn't compare with the melee version. Bio Armor is in a similar boat. Sentinels don't nearly have the tools (IO sets) in order to softcap typed defenses on Bio Armor like a melee AT does. Bio Armor can get pretty good with IO investments to lean on the click heals, but chasing softcap defenses is a chore. Hover blasting can fix a lot of the woes of Willpower/Bio Armor, but their defense/resist numbers aren't in the same league as other sets. I have a /Will, /Bio, and /Dark as well as /Nin. I can complete plenty of content on all of my characters, but I notice a very real difference playing Ninjutsu vs say... Willpower. My current /Dark character is all about stacking stuns and can nullify bosses with the right powers stacking effect. However, I don't kid myself that the character is going to survive direct focus from an AV like Marauder because she won't but my Ninjutsu has tanked him through dodging attacks. The layered defense secondaries aren't bad, but in terms of "best" they just aren't that.

This is a similar question to what is in the thread below. Dark Blast brings with it a debuff that enhances the defenses of ANY build. It also includes an AoE cone knockback and a single target attack that can heal. The set can synergize with everything. There is nothing to avoid just because you picked Dark Blast. So go nuts!

It does not have Stealth and it does have Power Armor.

Yes.

Anything. A bit less broad: AR has some knockback (convert to knockdown to suit your tastes) and that can buy time for regeneration. So sets like Bio Armor, Regeneration, Willpower, Electric, Dark Armor, and so on can appreciate the extra time to recover health. More narrow: Super Reflexes, Willpower, and Invulnerability are all pretty hands off or use only 1 clicky at most. Mine is paired with Bio Armor. If you like to hover, you can aim your cones downward and Bio Armor's T9 is a cone too.

Funny, I actually know that and the intent isn't appropriately expressed since the term itself is wrong! So if you swapped out the reference to damage caps and subbed in damage multiplier then what comes after that snippet statement is what I intended. Also, the other following sentence should have had "at the damage cap" after Sentinel. So it was a call out on the higher damage multipliers of those two ATs having more meaning when chucking reds at the damage cap vs the Sentinel. I just messed up typing it (what's new there? lol). Fire is still hot, and I'm still a goober.

The original post opens with that ranking as being a suspicion. Then there is a lot of talk about various things and a circling back to "what feels like is right". That being that Scrappers do high single target damage but Stalkers can trend towards higher performance in group scenarios due to more frequent criticals. The question really does seem to be a far more granular "what is the empirical proof that puts the argument to bed" and not just a generalized 30,000 ft view the classes. The OP has already done the latter on a number of responses. There is also the question of "Should X AT be doing Y damage in Z context?". So there is a lot to unpack and there are a lot of blurry lines as to how one thing should be and how things currently are. My head is spinning just thinking about it all and I keep making typos due to it. Anyway, to the OP, sorry for my Hulk derails but it was too tempting not to do given the context of all this. Also, I feel your instinct on assessment is already answering your own question. For anything further you probably do need some more specific data points for any other comparisons.

Heh, Might Thor issue #489 (1995). There is another panel of Hulk slugging Thor like this but a different angle. It ended in a draw due to the story. I do volunteer that you can tell Hulk that pretty blond man is strongest one there is though. 😉