How to scare away new players.

[ShardWarrior]

In my experience there is no substitute for tribal knowledge.  Guides and such can only take you so far.

[jubakumbi]

5 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

In my experience there is no substitute for tribal knowledge.  Guides and such can only take you so far.

And IME, that tribal knowledge, while at least sometimes useful, is typically heavily biased and therefore to be taken with a helping of ones prefered thing to ingest...

 

"It's not that I am not a trusting person...oh wait...yes it is!"

 

Even in RL, if the herd goes one way, I immediately look for all the other options and assume they would be better for me.

😉

 

I fear the tribe, because the tribal knowledge, to the tribe, it is sacrosanct, even when it is proved to be false.

Mob Mentality, IME/IMO, is frikin' scary, and is promoted by tribal outlooks.

I have been told by the tribe over the years for reading comics/playing PnP games/playing violent video games/not respecting others just because of age, etc., that I would burn in Hell/never get far in life/have no friends/generally fail.

 

Yeah, not a big fan of the tribe.

IME, the tribe does nothing but keep everyone down at thier level, because they fear everything else...

😉

 

[Apogee]

Sorry to hear about the passing of your friend jubakumbi.

[Sanguinesun]

1 hour ago, jubakumbi said:

And IME, that tribal knowledge, while at least sometimes useful, is typically heavily biased and therefore to be taken with a helping of ones prefered thing to ingest...

 

"It's not that I am not a trusting person...oh wait...yes it is!"

 

Even in RL, if the herd goes one way, I immediately look for all the other options and assume they would be better for me.

😉

 

I fear the tribe, because the tribal knowledge, to the tribe, it is sacrosanct, even when it is proved to be false.

Mob Mentality, IME/IMO, is frikin' scary, and is promoted by tribal outlooks.

I have been told by the tribe over the years for reading comics/playing PnP games/playing violent video games/not respecting others just because of age, etc., that I would burn in Hell/never get far in life/have no friends/generally fail.

 

Yeah, not a big fan of the tribe.

IME, the tribe does nothing but keep everyone down at thier level, because they fear everything else...

😉

 

 

This, Im afraid, is an extreme stance on justification for being blanketly dismissive by default of group pooled knowledge born of one's own personal(confirmation bias on one level) experiences.  Ironically when one really thinks on it, its just as disconcerting as the extreme viewpoint you represent such groups take.

 

While most anyone has had some form of bad experiences related to groups in or out of a game(social/group dynamics 101 really), it doesn't mean that most or all are.   If one doesn't identify with a group, that's fine and one moves on.  I am not trying to invalidate your bad experiences by stating this but saying to better couch them in the context that they are coming from so as to not cause yourself(or others more aptly) to disregard knowledge coming from others that could prove invaluable either.   Skepticism is healthy but cynicism is not. 

[SlimPickens]

jfc. You guys take words very seriously. Who cares if someone gives advice you dont like or tells you you are doing it wrong? If you are having fun and doing it wrong to someone else, you are still doing fine by yourself, so their opinion means nothing. Why would you let their words affect your enjoyment of something. Why in fact would you bother bantering back and forth with them at all if they are wasting your time and mental energy?

 

Just do you.

[jubakumbi]

46 minutes ago, Sanguinesun said:

 

This, Im afraid, is an extreme stance on justification for being blanketly dismissive by default of group pooled knowledge born of one's own personal(confirmation bias on one level) experiences.  Ironically when one really thinks on it, its just as disconcerting as the extreme viewpoint you represent such groups take.

 

While most anyone has had some form of bad experiences related to groups in or out of a game(social/group dynamics 101 really), it doesn't mean that most or all are.   If one doesn't identify with a group, that's fine and one moves on.  I am not trying to invalidate your bad experiences by stating this but saying to better couch them in the context that they are coming from so as to not cause yourself(or others more aptly) to disregard knowledge coming from others that could prove invaluable either.   Skepticism is healthy but cynicism is not. 

"IME, that tribal knowledge, while at least sometimes useful"

 

I take in all data, but it gets tagged with a source.

Tribes of people build insular communities and CoH has them aplenty.

 

"Trust but verify."

 

Saying I disregard the data is not correct, I simply do not trust a group within a group to give me the whole picture, and in general I don't trust groups simply because the moment they think you are not a part of the group, they turn on you, IME.

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, jubakumbi said:

I take in all data, but it gets tagged with a source.

I think this is wise. I feel I generally give decent to good advice for builds, but I have my biases on what I think is best. So generally that means build advice from me will focus on more recharge and more defense, sometimes at the expense of endurance management. Others will go the other way. Neither is wrong in general, but could be wrong depending on who is asking and what they want. So considering sources and their biases is a good thing in my opinion. 

[Black Zot]

1 hour ago, SlimPickens said:

jfc. You guys take words very seriously. Who cares if someone gives advice you dont like or tells you you are doing it wrong? If you are having fun and doing it wrong to someone else, you are still doing fine by yourself, so their opinion means nothing. Why would you let their words affect your enjoyment of something. Why in fact would you bother bantering back and forth with them at all if they are wasting your time and mental energy?

 

Just do you.

 

You do realize there was a 3-page argument upthread refuting this "choose not to be affected" bullshit, right?

[Sidious]

See, I understand where both people are coming from.

 

I made a farmer just to be able to afford my builds. I don't mind if others come and door sit, I only do it for SG mates though, and my main requirement is that they do not ghost the minute the "C - word" (Content, potty minds) comes up.

If you are actively playing your toon and just need to get money for your builds. I have no problem farming with you, contribute or don't. makes no dif.

 

If you are just PL-ing and don't even know how to get to other zones, how to use contacts, or become mute when asked if anyone is available to run TFs... then you bet you butt I'm not letting you in my farm.

 

The game has rules and often Farming is just a way to make affording things a bit easier. It is not there to take the place of the game itself.

[SlimPickens]

24 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

You do realize there was a 3-page argument upthread refuting this "choose not to be affected" bullshit, right?

choose to handle it however you wish, but I refute any refuting of the simple fact that its your own choice on how you handle outside opinions.

 

 

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, SlimPickens said:

choose to handle it however you wish, but I refute any refuting of the simple fact that its your own choice on how you handle outside opinions.

 

Glad it's not going to be me getting attacked and insulted this time. 😀

[SlimPickens]

Just now, ShardWarrior said:

Glad it's not going to be me getting attacked and insulted this time. 😀

lol dont worry- i dont care what they say so its all just noise to me. I live my life on my own terms, and dont let opinions of others ruin my good time.

[ShardWarrior]

Just now, SlimPickens said:

lol dont worry- i dont care what they say so its all just noise to me. I live my life on my own terms, and dont let opinions of others ruin my good time.

Same here.  I just found it mildly amusing.

[MunkiLord]

57 minutes ago, Sidious said:

.The game has rules and often Farming is just a way to make affording things a bit easier. It is not there to take the place of the game itself.

What rules are you talking about?

[Troo]

9 hours ago, swordchucks said:

This game, for all of its wonderful virtues, is nearly impenetrable to new players in certain areas.  There might be guides on the forums, but you often have to know the questions to ask before you go looking for them.  Even when you find them, a lot of guides are written by people with very in-depth knowledge with an intended audience of people with in-depth knowledge.  That's great, but not really helpful to a new player.

 

In-game questions probably shouldn't expect in-depth answers.  Not to the level you'll find on the forums.

 

As for this specific case... I completely understand why a request from a "newbie" asking to "door sit" would get some heated responses.  While there are plenty of ways to power-level in-game, door sitting is the only one that doesn't really involve playing the game to at least some degree.  I wouldn't argue for its removal, if only because it's a useful tool for folks that have already done all of the other stuff, but I can see why the idea of someone having their first character boosted all the way would be grating.

Agreed.

[Wintercat]

Two things: Telling someone to not be bothered by words is like kicking someone and telling them not to let it hurt.

 

Also, the only right way to play the game is the one that feels fun to you, and doesn't impinge on others.

[DSorrow]

2 hours ago, Wintercat said:

Two things: Telling someone to not be bothered by words is like kicking someone and telling them not to let it hurt.

I kind of disagree with this description. Whenever I'm bothered with something I often find it easy to manage my reaction by considering whether someone tried to intentionally bother me and if my reaction is proportional to what's happening. If someone would kick me intentionally, that alone justifies being livid but if it's an accident, then I'd consider how much it hurts: being slightly bumped by someone's heel is a completely different thing from taking a boot in your face, to exaggerate a little. To me it works the same with words: if it's an anonymous post that's kind of thoughtless and not directed at me, I'd be doing myself a disservice by spending time looking at every facet of the post that could possibly offend me.

 

Then again, if serving in the military taught me one useful thing it's ignoring most of the ultimately meaningless things that bother me, so maybe I'm just very thick skinned. Feelings, both good and bad, only stay alive if you feed them so I choose to focus on the good side.

 

2 hours ago, Wintercat said:

Also, the only right way to play the game is the one that feels fun to you, and doesn't impinge on others.

100% agree with this.

[PaxArcana]

4 hours ago, DSorrow said:

maybe I'm just very thick skinned.

Probably yes.

 

Please don't make the mistake of assuming that your personal experiences are - or should be! - universal.

[jubakumbi]

4 hours ago, DSorrow said:

Then again, if serving in the military taught me one useful thing it's ignoring most of the ultimately meaningless things that bother me, so maybe I'm just very thick skinned. Feelings, both good and bad, only stay alive if you feed them so I choose to focus on the good side.

I would appreciate it if those with 'thin skin' would realize that not everything posted on a message board is a direct attack on thier mental state and villinize anyone that simply was un-aware they have a problem, or realize that taking someones post in the worst possibly light and come out swinging at the poster rather than the idea, might not be the best approach.

 

IMO, the endless attacks on people on the forums and in the game over peoples 'triggers' is a huge turn off to new players, when said 'triggers' are literally a normal part of the game.

 

Too many players seem to wear their mental issues as a shield to hide behind, a badge of honor, and a weapon with which to beat others over the head all at the same time, IMO.

Having issues is not a blank check to demean and vilinize others, IMO, yet it seems to be the case in this 'community'...

[ShardWarrior]

5 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

I would appreciate it if those with 'thin skin' would realize that not everything posted on a message board is a direct attack on thier mental state and villinize anyone that simply was un-aware they have a problem, or realize that taking someones post in the worst possibly light and come out swinging at the poster rather than the idea, might not be the best approach.

 

IMO, the endless attacks on people on the forums and in the game over peoples 'triggers' is a huge turn off to new players, when said 'triggers' are literally a normal part of the game.

 

Too many players seem to wear their mental issues as a shield to hide behind, a badge of honor, and a weapon with which to beat others over the head all at the same time, IMO.

Having issues is not a blank check to demean and vilinize others, IMO, yet it seems to be the case in this 'community'...

This happens all over the internet and is indicative of how nameless, faceless communication over social media is not always a good thing.  I would wager most all the people who throw forum tantrums wouldn't say half of what they say were they talking to a real person face to face.

[jubakumbi]

15 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

This happens all over the internet and is indicative of how nameless, faceless communication over social media is not always a good thing.  I would wager most all the people who throw forum tantrums wouldn't say half of what they say were they talking to a real person face to face.

While I think some of these posters would say everything in a face to face conversation, my concern here is not as gerneral, even though I know it is influnced by socai media.

 

It's one thing to use <bad word> or <bad phrase>, I know, I use them all the time, words like 'sadist', for example, don't seem to be liked here, OK, whatever, but others like 'unoriginal' seem to be fine.

 

It's another thing, IMO, to be 'triggered' and 'go off' on someone over what is, literally, a normal part of the game itself, complete with 'tribal rules and outlooks', while in the guise of 'helping'.

 

The more I read this forum, the less I want to play the game at this point, so, it's not just new players...

[DSorrow]

1 hour ago, PaxArcana said:

Probably yes.

 

Please don't make the mistake of assuming that your personal experiences are - or should be! - universal.

I don't assume my world view is universal, but it's also not a universal truth that nothing can be done to manage one's own reactions to things. I also do have to make some assumptions as to what is a reasonable level of thickness of skin, otherwise we're pretty limited in what can be conversed at all. While I understand sometimes small things compound in the short term and cause everything to be seemingly annoying, I find it pretty unreasonable to consistently get offended by anonymous posts that aren't either blatantly offensive or confrontational. I can be snarky at times, but my intention is never to attack anyone.

 

It's literally impossible for anyone to be 100% considerate of every individual's context so I'm happy with people being mostly considerate. We shouldn't attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by something far less villainous, and sometimes it's worth considering whether it's helpful to call people out on it especially if confronting said perceived malice will likely just make the whole thing take a turn for the worse. We do have rules and mods to take care of the blatant cases, anyway.

[Twisted Toon]

On 9/24/2019 at 1:21 PM, SlimPickens said:

jfc. You guys take words very seriously. Who cares if someone gives advice you dont like or tells you you are doing it wrong? If you are having fun and doing it wrong to someone else, you are still doing fine by yourself, so their opinion means nothing. Why would you let their words affect your enjoyment of something. Why in fact would you bother bantering back and forth with them at all if they are wasting your time and mental energy?

 

Just do you.

 

On 9/24/2019 at 2:28 PM, Black Zot said:

You do realize there was a 3-page argument upthread refuting this "choose not to be affected" bullshit, right?

 

On 9/24/2019 at 2:55 PM, SlimPickens said:

choose to handle it however you wish, but I refute any refuting of the simple fact that its your own choice on how you handle outside opinions.

 

15 hours ago, Wintercat said:

Two things: Telling someone to not be bothered by words is like kicking someone and telling them not to let it hurt.

Little history about myself.

 

When I was growing up, I was picked on a lot. Bullied, more verbally than physically, since I was taller than most of the people I went to school with. I learned one simple thing early on. When people attempt to verbally bully me, I know that they are trying to tear me down to make them look better. So, it turns out that all of their name calling and what not is actually a compliment.

I chose to not be affected by words. Fists, on the other hand still hurt. However, I'll stand my ground and I won't back down. That usually will back off the physical bully.

See, the thing that a bully wants, is a fearful reaction. Don't give them that and they'll stop bothering you.

 

It takes a strange mind to actually come up with something like that at the age of 10.

 

I guess that means that I have a thick skin as well. But, you really can, if you train yourself to do it, choose to not be offended.

The problem now days is that young "adults" have been raised to revel in being offended because they can get what they want if they show that they are offended enough.

Mainly, what they want is attention.

 

If that offends anyone, all I can say is that you do not have the right to not be offended. It is going to happen. What you can do is choose what you do with that offense.

 

My suggestion would be to ... let it go. Because the cold never bothered me anyway.

[MunkiLord]

6 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

 

The problem now days is that young "adults" have been raised to revel in being offended because they can get what they want if they show that they are offended enough.

Mainly, what they want is attention.

The only difference between now and any point in the past is with the internet it is easier to express offense. That's it. People were every bit as offended at every point in history, but lacked the tools to share it with any significant amount of people.

[PaxArcana]

26 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

The problem now days is that young "adults" have been raised to revel in being offended because they can get what they want if they show that they are offended enough.

Mainly, what they want is attention.

This is wrong on so very, very many levels.  Wrong, and deplorable.