Missing sucks! Let's make it happen less. Thank you for coming to my TED talk.

[Vanden]

Missing your attacks is the worst. Don't pretend like you don't hate it. Champions Online has some really complicated system for dodging and damage reduction, and it's because the Cryptic found from running CoH that players hated missing, and so made a combat system where you never actually miss. These are my proposals to make missing less awful:

 

ToHit Cap Modifiers

 

The chance to hit cap is currently 95%. The following powers and inspirations would increase that maximum, up to 100%, for a certain number of tohit rolls or until the effect expires, whichever comes first. (Damage auras are exempt from these effects.)

• Build Up (and equivalents): 2%, for 2 tohit rolls
• Aim (and equivalents): 3%, for 2 tohit rolls
• Boost Up: 1%, for 1 tohit roll
• Insight, Tactical, Insight Imbuement, and Tactical Imbuement: .5%, for 10 tohit rolls
• Keen Insight, Precise, Keen Insight Imbuement, and Precise Imbuement: 1%, for 10 tohit rolls
• Uncanny Insight: 1.5%, for 10 tohit rolls
• Sight Beyond Sight: 2%, for 10 tohit rolls

 

This would reduce the frustration of popping a damage boost power, and whiffing your very next attack, and make yellow inspirations have some use even at the capped 95% chance to hit most players are at full time.

 

In addition, the maximum ToHit chance will always be 100% in the following situations:

• When the targeted foe is Object class
• When the targeted foe cons blue or lower
• When attacking from the Hidden state, against the targeted foe (enemies affected through AoE have the usual 95% tohit maximum, modified by the above effects when appropriate. Attacks that do not require a target cannot benefit from this condition)

This doesn't mean attacks become autohit in these situations; players still need enough accuracy and tohit buffs to reach that 100% ToHit chance.

 

Streakbreaker Changes

 

The current streakbreaker mechanics are detailed on this page. That affects both players and NPCs. The mechanics for players would change to the following:

• <70% final tohit chance: unchanged
• 70-79% final tohit chance: streakbreaker after 2 misses
• 80-89% final tohit chance: streakbreaker after 1 miss
• 90-97% final tohit chance: after one miss, streakbreaker forces 2 hits
• >97% final tohit chance: after one miss, streakbreaker forces 3 hits

 

I think these changes would go a long way towards reducing player frustration at missing and improve the value of yellow inspirations, without introducing any meaningful power creep.

[Epsilon Assassin]

Obligatory pvp concerns post

[MetaVileTerror]

I definitely feel the hurt on whiffing when I'm WELL over 100% To-Hit, so I think your idea is definitely worth investigating further.

I also have a proposal to tackle this, albeit one which would require a [Expletive]-tonne of work.  It would be to make Player Powers Autohit, but apply a "Chance to Apply Damage" effect tied to the Accuracy/To-Hit/Defense calculations.  Activating Aim, Build Up, or similar Powers, or doing Assassin Strike from Hide would grant a whole additional Check on the condition that if the first Check fails.

So, Attack Power activated (hidden from player view, server says "Autohit!", then) test at 95% to apply Damage to target, rolls a 95.01 . . .  failure registers, attempt second test at 95% to apply Damage.  The possibility of missing is still there, but the odds shrink substantially to 1 in 400.  Get enough effects stacked together, and get a Third attempt, or Fourth or Fifth.

So, those moments of hair-ripping frustration would be reduced to just a fraction as often, and the possibility for failure still exists for that sense of anticipation and wonder.

[Snakebit]

Oh. God. 

 

No. No no no. 

 

No. 

[Lost Ninja]

I only really notice missing a lot at low level or fighting Rikti/Forcefield Drones. Which can normally be fixed by popping some yellows (and by which point you have big trays). Is it really a problem with even con mobs? Or is the issue that more and more we seem to be fighting +4/x8?

[Steampunkette]

The miss chance is hard coded into the tohit roll mechanic. A Clamp if you will.

 

Removing it would take a massive amount of effort, if it's at all possible.

[Sovera]

I'd be all for it. Missing just for the sake of missing adds a fat zero nothing to the game. It is annoying for regular powersets and uber annoying for combo sets. An artifact from DnD, git yet gone!

 

At the very least combo powersets ought to get a combo point just for having launched the attack, not only if it lands.

[ShardWarrior]

Literally anything to make us not whiff all the time is a good thing.

[Steampunkette]

3 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I'd be all for it. Missing just for the sake of missing adds a fat zero nothing to the game. It is annoying for regular powersets and uber annoying for combo sets. An artifact from DnD, git yet gone!

 

At the very least combo powersets ought to get a combo point just for having launched the attack, not only if it lands.

It is -definitely- annoying that it exists...

 

But if it didn't, we'd have 50% Defense builds that literally nothing could hit without ToHit buffs.

[Sovera]

1 minute ago, Steampunkette said:

It is -definitely- annoying that it exists...

 

But if it didn't, we'd have 50% Defense builds that literally nothing could hit without ToHit buffs.

Keep it for NPCs then.

[macskull]

17 hours ago, Epsilon Assassin said:

Obligatory pvp concerns post

^ This right here.

[Sovera]

Just now, macskull said:

^ This right here.

Then keep it for NPCs and in PvP.

[macskull]

Just now, Sovera said:

Then keep it for NPCs and in PvP.

As another poster said upthread, the hit roll system is hardcoded. This change alone would be a massive undertaking, let alone then having to keep scenarios where the old rules apply. Sure, it sucks to miss when you've got a 95% hit roll against something, but that's part of the randomness that the game was built around. /Unsigned.

[Vanden]

17 hours ago, Epsilon Assassin said:

Obligatory pvp concerns post

 

20 minutes ago, macskull said:

^ This right here.

Are there actual, concrete pvp concerns? I was under the impression that, thanks to Elusivity, the 95% tohit cap was pretty, well, elusive, against defense-based builds.

[Sailboat]

Not a fan of this change.  What is the point of accuracy and to-hit at all if you recode to reduce misses?  We already mostly hit 95% of the time.  What about all those buffers and debuffers this will put out of a job?  The game isn't ALL about Brutes farming.

 

That said, I think the proposed solution is missing the point.  Increasing the to-hit cap for "the next 2 attacks" and the like runs the risk that your damage aura tick will use up the effect and then your big hitter will miss.

 

I submit that people are FAR more bothered when their big hitters and long-cooldown powers miss than they are by tier 1, pool power, rain-type patch, or damage aura misses.  So IF one were to address this, which I don't really support, it would make more sense to me to code it so that longer cooldown powers have higher chance to hit.  Assuming that's technically possible.

[Vanden]

10 minutes ago, Sailboat said:

Not a fan of this change.  What is the point of accuracy and to-hit at all if you recode to reduce misses?

The changes would only reduce the chance to miss at high chances to hit. You still need to get there, with buffs and slotting and such.

 

10 minutes ago, Sailboat said:

Increasing the to-hit cap for "the next 2 attacks" and the like runs the risk that your damage aura tick will use up the effect and then your big hitter will miss.

I specifically single out damage auras as exempt from that mechanic.

11 minutes ago, Sailboat said:

So IF one were to address this, which I don't really support, it would make more sense to me to code it so that longer cooldown powers have higher chance to hit.

Many powerful abilites do, in fact, have higher chances to hit, with improved base accuracy. But they're still capped at 95% chance maximum.

Edited September 27, 2019 by Vanden

[Sovera]

As it was mentioned if it is hardcoded then it's not going to happen, but, as Vanden mentioned, we still need to get there, and if we wanted to work for 100% hit chance like we work for 45% defense, then we could.

 

Moot point, but I leave with a vote for a yes.

[Epsilon Assassin]

4 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

Are there actual, concrete pvp concerns? I was under the impression that, thanks to Elusivity, the 95% tohit cap was pretty, well, elusive, against defense-based builds.

I'm just fringe worried about potential abuse regarding controlled streakbreakers. Defense based sets are already fairly weak outside stalkers. No one builds accuracy much accuracy. Tossing a couple mule garbage aoes at someone to trigger streakbreaker for enhanced/guaranteed accuracy has the potential to be abused. 

Edited September 27, 2019 by Epsilon Assassin

[macskull]

4 hours ago, Vanden said:

 

Are there actual, concrete pvp concerns? I was under the impression that, thanks to Elusivity, the 95% tohit cap was pretty, well, elusive, against defense-based builds.

I'd be less concerned with the tohit roll changes as I would be with the streakbreaker changes. Defense/elusivity is in a weird place in PvP because unlike in PvE where you always know what you're balancing a set against (and only breaking that if enemies have some kind of +tohit), you can come across any number of opponents in PvP that can dramatically change what the same amount of defense and elusivity will get you in terms of survivability.

[Vanden]

I'm really having a hard time seeing how it could be exploited. The most you could do is attack NPCs until you trigger enough misses that your next attack will be forced to hit, and then go for another player, but you can already do that. My suggestion only makes the streakbreaker more agressive at high tohit chances.

 

Also, you're probably going to have 95% chance to hit the NPCs in PvP zones, but it might be much less against a player with defense. If you attack an NPC with a 95% chance to hit it and miss, then go attack a player you have a 75% chance to hit, the streakbreaker won't kick in. If you do have a 95% chance to hit that player, you would've likely hit them anyway without any sort of streakbreaker priming.

[Epsilon Assassin]

1 hour ago, Vanden said:

I'm really having a hard time seeing how it could be exploited. The most you could do is attack NPCs until you trigger enough misses that your next attack will be forced to hit, and then go for another player, but you can already do that. My suggestion only makes the streakbreaker more agressive at high tohit chances.

 

Also, you're probably going to have 95% chance to hit the NPCs in PvP zones, but it might be much less against a player with defense. If you attack an NPC with a 95% chance to hit it and miss, then go attack a player you have a 75% chance to hit, the streakbreaker won't kick in. If you do have a 95% chance to hit that player, you would've likely hit them anyway without any sort of streakbreaker priming.

As it stands, I already throw unslotted "Base" attacks at defense targets in zone. I know, for instance, that if I throw Psy Dart at an EA stalker, and the tohit chance comes back ~30-40%, he's in T9. If I throw it and the tohit is around 70%, it means that he's not in t9, barrier or shadow meld. 

 

This change arbitrarily buffs, for no real reason (In an insignificant way), the chance that my spike combo (Which I throw after testing for t9/barrier) will do increased damage.

 

This is just an example off the top of my head. I don't know, concretely, if the change *can be* exploited to a degree that would be problematic, but I am sure that more exploitative minds then mine might break it further. I don't particularly think it matters either way *but* it bears being aware of. 

Edited September 28, 2019 by Epsilon Assassin

[TheAdjustor]

As a fan of the archery set which only has extra accuracy for it's special, I could get behind this, but it would be insult to injury if the set didn't get an inherent better than 95% chance to hit as well.

Edited September 28, 2019 by TheAdjustor