The Trial of Stan the Man vs Copyright Law

[Nericus]

12 minutes ago, Ulysses Dare said:

Not a great idea. Because far too many people believe that Marvel owns names like Wolverine and Black Widow—which they absolutely do not. Yes, Marvel owns the copyright on Wolverine: the cigar-smoking mutant with pointy claws. But they do not own the copyright on Wolverine: the Canadian flag-wearing dude with a magic hockey stick. A human being can glance at those two and immediately see there's no copyright infringement. A computer database can't.

Yes and wolverine is an animal and black widow is a spider.

 

But also the default appearance of the claws power is wolverines claws....

 

But since the legality of these servers is still questionable and ncsoft could still drop the hammer on them and shut us down would it not be better to err on the side of caution and implement a list of copyright names into the system to prevent them from being chosen by players and sending a friendly message to those who DO have such names to rename them for the skae of server survivability?

 

I would think most players would be understanding even if they didn't like it.  We all want our copycat characters but we all want the game more, right?

Edited October 9, 2019 by Nericus

[Myrmidon]

4 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

If I made the character for this purpose, it would have only Fear and Confuse, perhaps a petless MM with the Presence Pool, so it would be very easy to defeat.

I definately think Vigilante would, in fact, be the right choice as well.

I love it! If this “dual to keep names” ever became a thing, you would likely be responsible for the rewrite of PvP as we know it.🤣

[Myrmidon]

2 hours ago, Abraxus said:

May the wisdom of Solomon guide their decision on this. 

 

I'd hate to see such a touching, and earnest tribute end, due to efforts in getting right with the copyright issues.

I agree. Let the Homecoming team make the change instead of you.

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

5 hours ago, Frostbiter said:

Stan Lee is a trademark of POW Entertainment, LLC. Just FYI.

This is basically the answer to the basic Q, Id suggest maybe Manley Stanley?  And maybe go for a Young Stan? You know give his hair back his color, peel off a few decades, maybe give him some abs? It could be the praetorian dimensions stan lee that became a super soldier or something?

 

[justicebeliever]

6 hours ago, Frostbiter said:

Stan Lee is a trademark of POW Entertainment, LLC. Just FYI.

True.  FWIW, Stan the Man is not one of their trademarks however and is not owned by any comic or entertainment company.

 

but again, it shouldn’t matter, because you can’t trademark a name to keep it from being used by people (the hospital never checks trademarks when filling out those birth certificates), you can just use it to keep someone else from marketing to a similar target audience with the same name.

 

 

[Nericus]

43 minutes ago, justicebeliever said:

True.  FWIW, Stan the Man is not one of their trademarks however and is not owned by any comic or entertainment company.

 

but again, it shouldn’t matter, because you can’t trademark a name to keep it from being used by people (the hospital never checks trademarks when filling out those birth certificates), you can just use it to keep someone else from marketing to a similar target audience with the same name.

 

 

Well his birth name was Stanley Lieber and when he wrote his first story for captain America comics he shortened it for journalistic reason to Stan Lee.  However I am unclear if he later made it a legal name change or if the name was more of a pen name that just stayed with him

[Ulysses Dare]

5 hours ago, Nericus said:

But since the legality of these servers is still questionable and ncsoft could still drop the hammer on them and shut us down would it not be better to err on the side of caution and implement a list of copyright names into the system to prevent them from being chosen by players and sending a friendly message to those who DO have such names to rename them for the skae of server survivability?

Why? As you just pointed out the biggest copyright threat to the game isn't Marvel, DC, or Disney—it's NCSoft. If Marvel gets their panties in a bunch over all of the Wolverine clones they send a DCMA complaint to Homecoming and, in accordance with copyright law, Homecoming zaps the offending character. As long as they do so promptly Marvel et al have no legal claim against them.

 

NCSoft does. Every single NPC in the game, all the powers, the maps, etc. all of that is NCSoft's intellectual property. And they could, at any moment, waltz in and shut the whole thing down. Anyone who spends their time fretting about Marvel, DC, and the rest is basically rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Stan The Man]

I did consider reporting myself, but I thought against it.  Assuming the best case scenario a GM is lenient and says I'm not infringing copyright, that doesn't mean I won't be subjected to future reports for the same violation or that the very same GM will oversee that report.  And there is a possibility that another GM may be less lenient.

So, I came here instead.

 

Even if I'm not actually violating any copyright law, or trademark, there is always the "better safe than sorry" clause.   And if I'm subject to that, then that's that.  I'm more than happy to do what I can to keep the game out of trouble.

Thank you so much for the comments, everyone. 

I'll keep playing as-is until something happens.

If nothing happens, then Stan stays.

Edited October 10, 2019 by Stan The Man

[ShardWarrior]

1 hour ago, Stan The Man said:

I did consider reporting myself, but I thought against it.  Assuming the best case scenario a GM is lenient and says I'm not infringing copyright, that doesn't mean I won't be subjected to future reports for the same violation or that the very same GM will oversee that report.  And there is a possibility that another GM may be less lenient.

Have you followed any of the threads, in particular the actual CoC update thread?  GMs have said they have a private database where they will be able to flag characters that are deemed "ok". 

[boggo2300]

6 hours ago, Stan The Man said:

I did consider reporting myself, but I thought against it.  Assuming the best case scenario a GM is lenient and says I'm not infringing copyright, that doesn't mean I won't be subjected to future reports for the same violation or that the very same GM will oversee that report.  And there is a possibility that another GM may be less lenient.

So, I came here instead.

 

Even if I'm not actually violating any copyright law, or trademark, there is always the "better safe than sorry" clause.   And if I'm subject to that, then that's that.  I'm more than happy to do what I can to keep the game out of trouble.

Thank you so much for the comments, everyone. 

I'll keep playing as-is until something happens.

If nothing happens, then Stan stays.

Except they will flag you as reviewed and wont revisit the decision made on you...

[Snakebit]

Stan Lee is not trademarked. There is a company that owns the mark for Stan Lee Presents and Excelsior. POW Entertainment. https://trademarks.justia.com/880/85/excelsior-88085000.html  https://trademarks.justia.com/880/03/stan-lee-88003957.html

 

Stan the Man is trademarked, serial number 86964501

 

This trademark is owned by Stand the Man, Inc and is for Barbeque Sauce. 

 

 

Honestly, there's no reason you shouldn't be able to stay Stan the Man, with the exception of the impersonation rule. 

[Troo]

Super group name likely puts it over a line.

(if this was math related, many would have caught that😀)

 

Name alone definitely okay. Name, Costume and Bio seems fairly innocuous (kinda tongue & cheek).

Attempting to create a hot topic post pointing to yourself with a 'Ban Me' sign.. well you get what you get.

 

Probably would never have been flagged and if it was, reasonably defend-able until this thread.

 

Edited October 11, 2019 by Troo
"I am the law!" -unknown

[Herotu]

The evil "Copyright Law" and his minions will NEVER stop Stan the Man from stealing the identity borrowing a shitty likeness of a generic-looking old man! Boooooo!

 

 

[Sailboat]

On 10/9/2019 at 8:15 AM, Seigmoraig said:

You would not break any copyright law but you would break server rules :

3. Do not impersonate others

1. This includes Homecoming staff, NCSOFT staff, players, other prominent members of the wider City of Heroes community and real-world individuals

 

I wonder if that rule extends to deceased people.  On live I ran Abraham Lincoln for a long time without any issues.  Clearly there's no threat that anyone would believe this is the real Stan Lee unless they're using a Ouija board for a keyboard.

[Seigmoraig]

33 minutes ago, Sailboat said:

I wonder if that rule extends to deceased people.  On live I ran Abraham Lincoln for a long time without any issues.  Clearly there's no threat that anyone would believe this is the real Stan Lee unless they're using a Ouija board for a keyboard.

Well Lincoln is old enough to be public domain at this point 😛

[Shred Monkey]

I'm pretty sure there's no actual cause for concern about lawyers and such given that there's no money exchanging hands.  Even copyright lawyers need a monetary incentive to show up.

 

So, in my opinion, if you want to do this, do it.  Similarly, If the Homecoming Devs decide to say no... then that's their prerogative.

 

But, since you asked the question about our opinions (or that's what I think you're looking for) ...personally, I wouldn't do it.  It might be a fun tribute as a costume contest theme.  But to actually play the game, I prefer to play, and play alongside, original player creations.

[moss04]

You should be fine.  As people have stated you can't copywright/trademark a real person.  And it is _not_ impersonation because you are not passing yourself off as the real Stan Lee any more than someone is impersonating a police officer by creating a hero wearing wearing a cop uniform.

[jubakumbi]

So, should we all Stan together and have a Best Stan Standing Costume Contest?

[Stan The Man]

On 10/10/2019 at 12:55 PM, ShardWarrior said:

Have you followed any of the threads, in particular the actual CoC update thread?  GMs have said they have a private database where they will be able to flag characters that are deemed "ok". 

 

23 hours ago, boggo2300 said:

Except they will flag you as reviewed and wont revisit the decision made on you...

Oh, thats neat! And makes me reconsider that option. I have read only the initial announcement and the actual CoC.  It does not mention a database or procedure for that.  I immediately checked these to see if I missed it.  And have done a quick search and turned up nada.  There is still the possibility that I may have still missed it.  I'm very deeply sorry if I have.  May I have a link to this to verify it?

[boggo2300]

57 minutes ago, Stan The Man said:

 

Oh, thats neat! And makes me reconsider that option. I have read only the initial announcement and the actual CoC.  It does not mention a database or procedure for that.  I immediately checked these to see if I missed it.  And have done a quick search and turned up nada.  There is still the possibility that I may have still missed it.  I'm very deeply sorry if I have.  May I have a link to this to verify it?

 

[Herotu]

As an option, they could make a database of the combinations of costume parts that make a copyrighted character, then just stop you putting that combination together... or entering the game with that combination.

[justicebeliever]

4 hours ago, moss04 said:

As people have stated you can't copywright/trademark a real person. 

You can trademark your likeness, just can’t copyright it.

 

But Trademark doesn’t extend to the Code of Conduct.

[justicebeliever]

4 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

So, should we all Stan together and have a Best Stan Standing Costume Contest?

The way some of the posters are it would be last Stan standing.  But I like your idea better...

[RikOz]

For what it's worth, World of Warcraft added a Stan Lee tribute NPC to Stormwind City after he died. His name is "Stanley", and he's clearly modeled to resemble Stan Lee. He wanders around the city and says, "Excelsior!"