I am sure this is unpopular, but I miss the city life

[arkieboy72472]

I will keep it simple. As much as I love all of the quality of life changes, I hate the result of them. Here are some ideas I was batting around in my head that would be a pretty big and unpopular reversal for the game.

 

1. Get rid of the ability to purchase the portable field craft table. You have to earn it.

2. Nix the slash command for the auction house. You have to go there.

3. Find a way to make hazard and empty zones a little more popular in the future (think the hollows, perez park, fault line, boomtown, crey's folley, echo: whatever and the hive)

 

In other words, this stuff is nice and all and I appreciate it, but I miss how some things used to be.

And two I have considered but would probably die for

 

4. The only way to get the ouroborus power is to earn it but make the way to go about doing it obvious.

5. Respecs have to happen at respec person/people

 

Along these lines, I like having 2XP options, but it and DFB have killed the sewers and kings row.

It is hard for the great quality of life things to coexist with the old way of doing things. I guess I am just too old school.

 

 

[Bossk_Hogg]

I'm an adult with a family, job, home and many other responsibilities. I'm done working for my fun. If you wanna waste your time physically going to the auction house, feel free. But don't ask to waste mine. 

 

To all the other forum busybodies constantly looking to add grind- please stop asking to take away MY options because of YOUR preferences, particularly when you still have YOUR option available.

[Black Zot]

Same as I say to any such suggestion: stick your nerfs in your ear.

[Gravitus]

1 hour ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

I'm an adult with a family, job, home and many other responsibilities. I'm done working for my fun. If you wanna waste your time physically going to the auction house, feel free. But don't ask to waste mine. 

 

To all the other forum busybodies constantly looking to add grind- please stop asking to take away MY options because of YOUR preferences, particularly when you still have YOUR option available.

I get what you’re saying but to be fair I think you strawmanned his argument.

 

The concern was that with every function “on demand” it essentially boils down to “what’s the point in having all of these lifeless building structures devoid of actual people?” With everyone having all of these on demand features it sort of takes away from the atmosphere of an active community in a visual sense. 
 

Him actually choosing to travel doesn’t address the issue he raised. The game does feel more isolated not having players spread out on the maps. I do think however there is a way to fix this by incentivizing patrols instead of taking people’s toys away. I will agree you should have to earn the crafting table like we had to on live.
 

 

 

[Leogunner]

1 hour ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

To all the other forum busybodies constantly looking to add grind- please stop asking to take away MY options because of YOUR preferences, particularly when you still have YOUR option available.

To play devil's advocate: it's far more often people are asking for more and more GIMME GIMME GIMMEs than for people to ask for those gimmes to be taken away.

[golstat2003]

11 minutes ago, Gravitus said:

I get what you’re saying but to be fair I think you strawmanned his argument.

 

The concern was that with every function “on demand” it essentially boils down to “what’s the point in having all of these lifeless building structures devoid of actual people?” With everyone having all of these on demand features it sort of takes away from the atmosphere of an active community in a visual sense. 
 

Him actually choosing to travel doesn’t address the issue he raised. The game does feel more isolated not having players spread out on the maps. I do think however there is a way to fix this by incentivizing patrols instead of taking people’s toys away. I will agree you should have to earn the crafting table like we had to on live.
 

 

 

I disagree with every suggestion made, including the suggestion to change back the crafting table.

[Black Zot]

Just now, Leogunner said:

To play devil's advocate: it's far more often people are asking for more and more GIMME GIMME GIMMEs than for people to ask for those gimmes to be taken away.

 

You haven't spent much time on the forums recently, have you?

 

There's half a dozen active threads ATM demanding something be taken out/the game made harder and NONE talking about adding freebies.

[Leogunner]

1 minute ago, Black Zot said:

 

You haven't spent much time on the forums recently, have you?

 

There's half a dozen active threads ATM demanding something be taken out/the game made harder and NONE talking about adding freebies.

You're wrong.

[Bossk_Hogg]

1 hour ago, Gravitus said:

I get what you’re saying but to be fair I think you strawmanned his argument.

 

The concern was that with every function “on demand” it essentially boils down to “what’s the point in having all of these lifeless building structures devoid of actual people?” With everyone having all of these on demand features it sort of takes away from the atmosphere of an active community in a visual sense. 
 

Him actually choosing to travel doesn’t address the issue he raised. The game does feel more isolated not having players spread out on the maps. I do think however there is a way to fix this by incentivizing patrols instead of taking people’s toys away. I will agree you should have to earn the crafting table like we had to on live.
 

 

 

Nah, I earned it once the hard way, I'm good. "Protestant Fun Ethic", that demands we grind for everything, isnt something I care about. Maybe form a SG called "Uphill Both Ways" if you really want to go back to early 2000's MMO drudgery with a self-imposed ban on teleporters, monorails, extra costume slots and whatever other QOL issues you all detest. 

 

I'm also not sure how bunch of characters, standing around in silence for a few minutes at a time while the browse auctions, really adds much community. You can do the same thing in AE if you're that lonely.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Bossk_Hogg

[Black Zot]

Just now, Leogunner said:

You're wrong.

 

No I'm not.  Take a good look at the front pages of Suggestions and General.  There's a common theme these past couple weeks, and "GIMME" ain't it.

[Gravitus]

2 minutes ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

 

 

I'm also not sure how bunch of characters, standing around in silence for a few minutes at a time while the browse auctions, really adds much community. You can do the same thing in AE if you're that lonely.

It doesn’t per se, it’s a visual atmospheric thing, not a social one.

[Leogunner]

21 minutes ago, Black Zot said:

 

No I'm not.  Take a good look at the front pages of Suggestions and General.  There's a common theme these past couple weeks, and "GIMME" ain't it.

 

If you can count, then you'll know you're wrong.

 

And this has been a very mild couple weeks.  There were people asking for inherent Hasten, for Swiftness to have +rech, for more enhancement slots post 50, so on and so on.

[Zepp]

Balance issues and AT/Powerset suggestions are not gimmes. Some balance proposals do border on gimmeism, but by and large they are about bringing underperforming sets to the average rather than making them OP...

[Leogunner]

1 minute ago, Zepp said:

Balance issues and AT/Powerset suggestions are not gimmes. Some balance proposals do border on gimmeism, but by and large they are about bringing underperforming sets to the average rather than making them OP...

If they aren't asking for a nerf, then they are gimmes.

 

I don't count Powerset suggestions or AT suggestions (despite me mentioning an AT proposal as a gimme) as gimmes because those are more like forum games rather than sincere requests to the developers.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Leogunner

[TheAdjustor]

19 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

If they aren't asking for a nerf, then they are gimmes.

 

I don't count Powerset suggestions or AT suggestions (despite me mentioning an AT proposal as a gimme) as gimmes because those are more like forum games rather than sincere requests to the developers.

Err no. Different and or better are not Anti Nerfs, which is the way gimme is being used here.

 

It's also far into the woods, of this Which is nerfs that affect everyone vs changes that only affect the people that want to use them.

 

I got the field crafter table the old way by memorizing the recipes on my main. I knew I could get it by just buying it but that's the way I did it. There's absolutely no reason everyone should be forced into doing it that way, and it takes nothing away from my fun or accomplishment.

 

[Leogunner]

5 minutes ago, TheAdjustor said:

Err no. Different and or better are not Anti Nerfs, which is the way gimme is being used here.

 

It's also far into the woods, of this Which is nerfs that affect everyone vs changes that only affect the people that want to use them.

 

Semantics.  Doesn't change my initial post.  There are NOT as many requests asking for nerfs as there are requests for asking for more AND I demonstrated it by literally doing what the individual who quoted me asked (to look at the 1st page of the S&F board). 

[TheAdjustor]

10 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Semantics.  Doesn't change my initial post.  There are NOT as many requests asking for nerfs as there are requests for asking for more AND I demonstrated it by literally doing what the individual who quoted me asked (to look at the 1st page of the S&F board). 

Semantics are important, it's also important to define the universe of discourse.  What you consider gimmes many people would not.  Powerset proliferation as a Gimme ? IOset diversification as a Gimme ?*

 

*Not going to bother going through everything

Edited October 18, 2019 by TheAdjustor

[Bossk_Hogg]

8 minutes ago, Leogunner said:

Semantics.  Doesn't change my initial post.  There are NOT as many requests asking for nerfs as there are requests for asking for more AND I demonstrated it by literally doing what the individual who quoted me asked (to look at the 1st page of the S&F board). 

Because they aren't going to mainly balance downward. That ship has LONG sailed. If you wanna drag everything down to the level of force fields, ice control, energy melee...  Uh, no Peg.

 

[Zepp]

Balancing is not asking for more, it is asking for parity. It is best to avoid forced false dichotomies when making arguments. It can make people ignore any substance your argument has.

[arkieboy72472]

4 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

I'm an adult with a family, job, home and many other responsibilities. I'm done working for my fun. If you wanna waste your time physically going to the auction house, feel free. But don't ask to waste mine. 

 

To all the other forum busybodies constantly looking to add grind- please stop asking to take away MY options because of YOUR preferences, particularly when you still have YOUR option available.

Fair enough. I am in the same boat.

[arkieboy72472]

2 hours ago, Gravitus said:

The concern was that with every function “on demand” it essentially boils down to “what’s the point in having all of these lifeless building structures devoid of actual people?” With everyone having all of these on demand features it sort of takes away from the atmosphere of an active community in a visual sense.

Exactly THIS

 

[arkieboy72472]

I like the mostly measured approach they take to things. I like the economy. I like most things. However, I don't think it is fair or right to categorize powerset and power balancing as a gimme. If a set is garbage in comparison to others, maybe it needs looked at (like Trick Arrow). If a power is garbage or under-powered to the point it doesn't do as intended, maybe that needs looked at. I am of the mind that no powers or power sets should be so bad that they are not used or discarded, or so OP that all other options pale in comparison. Other servers has taken to improving things such as MM pet AI. I like that idea.

 

Anyhow, what I miss about the game is what the QoL has taken away. It is a balance I liked at the beginning, but have slowly worn on. I am not asking to add to much grind. What I am asking instead, mainly, is to consider a small measure of some of the old school stuff. Maybe it is the hard truth that we are all older, that the game is old, and that the ship I was on has sailed...I am just having a hard time dealing with it. I am the same guy who was a late smart phone convert also. Notice I am not bitching about stuff like the economy, 2XP, etc. I was very picky in the things I wanted to complain on.

Edited October 18, 2019 by arkieboy72472

[Megajoule]

45 minutes ago, arkieboy72472 said:

Anyhow, what I miss about the game is what the QoL has taken away. It is a balance I liked at the beginning, but have slowly worn on. I am not asking to add to much grind. What I am asking instead, mainly, is to consider a small measure of some of the old school stuff. Maybe it is the hard truth that we are all older, that the game is old, and that the ship I was on has sailed...I am just having a hard time dealing with it. I am the same guy who was a late smart phone convert also. Notice I am not bitching about stuff like the economy, 2XP, etc. I was very picky in the things I wanted to complain on.

 

I sympathize, I do; I'm in the same boat.  I too only got a smart phone last year, and went a couple of months leveling with SOs (which I understood and was used to, going back to '04) before I switched to IOs, (as I never before learned the ins and outs of set bonuses I could never afford on live).  But as you yourself acknowledge, that boat has sailed.  Those days, the people we knew, and the way the game was played then, aren't coming back.  This is a similar game, but different.

 

Look, I used to be a Taxibot.  The devs, in the course of the live game, made our entire SG obsolete.  But they did so by fixing the issues that made us necessary and desired - giving out travel powers earlier, combining the train lines, making it possible (and easy) for people to get their costumes changed without being murdered.  IMO, the game is better for those changes, even if it took away most of the reason for us to exist.
 

The hazard zones haven't been popular since... oh, the single digit issues, and even that was just street-sweeping/herding in Perez in the very early days.  People have always gone there only when missions/task forces required it, and left as soon as possible.  Only the PvP zones and Arenas are/were more barren.

 

As for the Auction House, I love not having to go there in person to sell my stuff... but really the biggest part of that is not having to stand next to That One Guy who leaves his Spines or Fire aura on the entire time.  And given that those two are, like, the most popular combo now...

 

I mean, what you're basically asking for here is for characters to have to go to the bathroom - visit a specific place to conduct an unpleasant but necessary task now and then, studiously ignore anyone else present, and leave as soon as they're done.  That's not gameplay or community; that's a chore.

Edited October 18, 2019 by Megajoule

[Rylas]

3 hours ago, Leogunner said:

To play devil's advocate: it's far more often people are asking for more and more GIMME GIMME GIMMEs than for people to ask for those gimmes to be taken away.

From reading the thread, I would avoid your definition (and it is very much an opinion of a definition) of the word "gimme." It carries the tone of entitlement. It makes it sound as if people are asking for the lazy hand outs instead of requesting things in the spirit of improving the game or enriching it. To take a such a broad range of possible intentions and to generalize them under one roof for the sake of propping up a strange devil's advocate doesn't seem to serve much towards having discussions in good faith.

 

As for the actual suggestion, yeah, that's an unpopular one. Just because there aren't busy bodies all over the streets doesn't mean there aren't people out and about playing the game. Currently, it's a suggestion based on how one *feels* about something without much objective reasoning.

 

 

[Leogunner]

2 hours ago, TheAdjustor said:

Semantics are important, it's also important to define the universe of discourse.  What you consider gimmes many people would not.  Powerset proliferation as a Gimme ? IOset diversification as a Gimme ?*

 

*Not going to bother going through everything

It's semantics in the realm that we have two different definitions for a vague uncentralized term (a "gimme") which is pointless to argue.  I have a definition that you disagree with and you have a definition I disagree with.  You can continue to argue your point but neither is right or wrong thus it's a waste of time.