Fire Control/?

[Call Me Awesome]

I'm thinking about a new Fire 'troller and am pondering the secondary.  I've played Fire/Rad on Live and I know it's a beast both solo and teamed and while I haven't played Fire/Kin I have played several other primaries paired with Kin.

 

Those of you with experience with the various combos is there one that's particularly effective on a team?  Fire/Rad is something of a given there but do other combinations give it a run for its money?  I doubt I'll be a fixed superteam to stack the Rad buff/debuffs up to absurd.

[Crowcus Pocus]

I would go with Fire/Storm/Earth. I don't see many around, but it's a true powerhouse. It will probably require you to go Cardiac, but it'll be worth it.

• Stacked stuns with Flashfire + Tornado + Fissure (+ Thunderclap if you want to go overboard)
• 2x Knockdown from FR and IO'd Bonfire (I wouldn't IO Fissure for KD, unless you have the spare slot)
• Awesome AoE damage from containment + FR + Hot Feet + Tornado + Fissure
• Imps + LS + Tornado + Seismic Smash = ST carnage
• Plenty of FF+Rech potential

But since many players have already a Storm toon, I can understand you might want something different. If that's the case, I'll name Fire/Dark as plan B.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Falsey

[Outrider_01]

Fire/Kin, stun with immobilized or hold, run in, fulcrum, hot feet,  and they melt to your pets, bosses require another hold to get them solidly locked down.  Near perma hasten, keeps every them up quickly.

[Erydanus]

Fire is a pretty solid set with a bit of extra damage potential but no major sacrifices. You can really pair it with about anything. I personally played a Fire/Storm for thematic reasons and really enjoyed being the master of elements, though when a buddy with /kin joined me is when it got really nutty.  Other sets besides radiation that I think would work particularly well are:

 

I've played a fire/kin as a duo and I'm working on one now. The extreme power at high level is offset by a long slow climb. Worth it but you do put in your dues.

 

Because fire has 3 fragile damage dealing pets, any of the sets that include shields are going to pay off eventually. That means force field, sonic, thermal radiation, and cold domination are all legit choices, as is nature affinity. Cold domination and sonic have more that I think will go well on a controller but all of these are legit if not exciting choices. 

 

A new combo I've seen a fair bit on the current servers is fire/dark. Fire's good, dark's great, you get debuff, healing, buffs, and control in it and it works well for a lot of supernatural concepts. Howling Twilight, Tar Patch, and Hot Feet can be stacked, and that's pretty nasty.

 

Time is popular, I haven't heard a single bad word said about the set (so I'll say one: I don't love the sound effects of some of the powers but it's a trivial complaint). I think it has slows so you could pin things down in your hot feet easily too.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Erydanus

[Carnifax]

Nature is an interesting one too. AOE Resist shield, AOE absorb shield, single target -resist, an aura which on.paper looks similar to Rads (so goes well with Hotfeet), rad-like debuff toggle and the ult is a long lasting team build up. 

 

Thinking that might be my next Controller if I can think of a good concept. 

Edited November 6, 2019 by Carnifax

[Call Me Awesome]

I played a Plant/Storm on Live and found out that Storm really wasn't for me.  I played him to 50 and he was ok, but I really wished I'd chosen another secondary.

 

I've been considering the /kin set, it's good with almost anything and Fulcrum will jazz up the little aggro monkeys to 11.  I'm currently working a Nature/Sonic defender so I think Nature is off the table for a choice.  Thinking it over some more I think my short list is:

Fire/Kin

Fire/Dark

Fire/Sonic

 

Looking over the Dark set I see a few changes from the Defender version, it looks like Fade and Soul Absorption are the big changes, I can see how they'd work rather well.  Black Hole is still the useless POS it's always been so there's a slot open in the build.  I'm a bit bummed loosing Fearsome Stare though.

 

 

[Crowcus Pocus]

Dark affinity is extremely good, with fade being the rockstar of the set. You wouldn't regret it.

[Carnifax]

On paper Dark doesnt look like it is particularly melee friendly, but your heal is pbaoe, youll want to cover your imps / melee teammates with Fade and youll want to be in close for Soul Drain / Absorb or whatever its called. 

 

Plus there's no reason NOT to be in close: no cones, tarpatch doesnt care where its plonked and its likely Dark Servant will be in there too so extra aoe heals (which your imps will like too).

 

Only relative downside is that Dark isnt particularly proccable or come with additional controls. Its still amazing.

Edited November 6, 2019 by Carnifax

[nekkidtruth]

57 minutes ago, Carnifax said:

On paper Dark doesnt look like it is particularly melee friendly, but your heal is pbaoe, youll want to cover your imps / melee teammates with Fade and youll want to be in close for Soul Drain / Absorb or whatever its called. 

 

Plus there's no reason NOT to be in close: no cones, tarpatch doesnt care where its plonked and its likely Dark Servant will be in there too so extra aoe heals (which your imps will like too).

 

Only relative downside is that Dark isnt particularly proccable or come with additional controls. Its still amazing.

I just tried the Fire/Dark/Psi build located here: 

 

I tested it on Pineapple. It was...pretty amazing. There are a few things I noticed that you need to be mindful of but, I set myself to +4x8 and ran a couple of radio missions in PI and steamrolled Council and Arachnos. Depending on if I can get a good rotation going, I may rebuild on Torch.

[Zep]

Fire/Storm is a powerhouse -- really though if that is not your cup of tea Kin/Dark and others all work well. Which secondaries do you like?

[Call Me Awesome]

I'm leaning to Fire/Dark now when I get a chance to roll another character... at the moment I have 10 characters in the 15-40 range and I've been working on a Nature/Sonic Defender lately.  Damn Altitis!  I really should finish a few before I roll more but it never seems to work.  4 pages of characters and only 4 at 50 so far.

 

Back on Live I had Fire/Rad, Ill/Rad, Plant/Storm & Mind/Kin at 50 and enjoyed all but the Plant/Storm... the playstyle that Storm required just didn't really appeal to me.  I only finished him because he was part of a dedicated SG team we played.  On Defenders I had Rad/Rad (possibly a pattern?), Kin/Rad, Dark/Dark and Sonic/Sonic all at 50 so I'm at least familiar with those sets.  Oh, almost forgot the Ill/Emp I rolled in issue 3 and finally got to 50 in issue 22 or so... Emp isn't a set that appeals to me since it took 10 years to level.👇

[Carnifax]

8 hours ago, nekkidtruth said:

It was...pretty amazing.

Did sticking Cloud senses in make a big difference? I have it on Dark Servant, since he has a lot of triggers but it didnt seem worthwhile to me in Darkest Night or on the heal. 

[ambpup]

This is a quick build, but I could see how fire/time could become the darling of a group.

 

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[Erydanus]

19 hours ago, Carnifax said:

Only relative downside is that Dark isnt particularly proccable or come with additional controls. 

Well uh, actually this statement is seriously inaccurate. Some of Dark's powers can take a stupid amount of procs and the set as a whole contains 2 more soft controls and a controlling pet, that's actually a lot.

[Carnifax]

1 minute ago, Erydanus said:

Well uh, actually this statement is seriously inaccurate. Some of Dark's powers can take a stupid amount of procs and the set as a whole contains 2 more soft controls and a controlling pet, that's actually a lot.

Which procs? I've looked at the builds in Proc Monsters and there aren't that many. Howling is one that escaped my attention, looks like that would take 2 damage (Posi and the slow) and one resist (and some crappy Stun ones), and DS can take Cloud and 1-2 Hold ones, but the hold ones only kick in for the single target hold. I'm genuinely interested for my Ill/Dark. 

 

Soft controls you have howling and what else?

 

I think I need to reslot my Howling now I investigate it futher....

[Doc Ranger]

Dark Affinity can't take a ton of procs. Dark Control can.

 

Here's my current Fire/Dark build if you're interested.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.1
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Psionic Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(3), BslGaz-Rchg/Hold(3), BslGaz-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(9), BslGaz-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(50)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- TchoftheN-Heal(A), TchoftheN-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(5), TchoftheN-Acc/Heal(5), TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(7), TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(7), TchoftheN-%Dam(9)
Level 2: Fire Cages -- SprOvrPrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprOvrPrs-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(15), SprOvrPrs-EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprOvrPrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(17), SprOvrPrs-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprOvrPrs-Rchg/Energy Font(39)
Level 4: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 6: Fly -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 8: Tar Patch -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 10: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Howling Twilight -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Flashfire -- SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(A), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(19), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(19), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(34), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(39)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(21), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(21), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(23), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(23), Rct-ResDam%(25)
Level 18: Darkest Night -- DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb(A), DarWtcDsp-Rchg/EndRdx(40), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(40), DarWtcDsp-ToHitDeb/Rchg(40)
Level 20: Fade -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(25), LucoftheG-Def(27), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(27), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), UnbGrd-Max HP%(29)
Level 22: Hot Feet -- ImpSwf-Dam%(A), Erd-%Dam(37), Obl-%Dam(46), ScrDrv-Dam%(46), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(50)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Bonfire -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A), PstBls-Dam%(33), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(34), Ann-ResDeb%(34), Ann-Dmg/Rchg(42), ExpStr-Dam%(42)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg(31), PrfShf-EndMod(31), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(31), EffAdp-EndMod(33), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(33)
Level 30: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(36), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(36), SlbAll-Build%(37)
Level 35: Indomitable Will -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 38: Dark Servant -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-ToHitDeb(42), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(43), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 41: World of Confusion -- Ccp-Dam%(A), MlsIll-Dam%(43), ScrDrv-Dam%(45), Obl-%Dam(45), Arm-Dam%(46)
Level 44: Mind Over Body -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(45)
Level 47: Psionic Tornado -- SuddAcc--KB/+KD(A), ExpStr-Dam%(48), PstBls-Dam%(48), PstBls-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), Pnc-Heal/+End(15)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(13)
------------

 

 

 

 

[Erydanus]

I didn't say that either set could take a "TON" of procs. I said it wasn't accurate to say 1) they weren't particularly proc-able, and 2) Dark Affinity comes  with no more controls.

 

1) You can put procs in several of the powers and you have multiple options to do interesting things if needed or desired. If your definition of proc-able is damage procs only well, I think you have a skewed perspective.  Not that opportunities for using procs is actually a metric I would make my primary decisions about a set about. I'd like the set to do what it needs to do and /Dark is great and already slot hungry. If a power is good you should be wanting to use it for what it is. However, several powers in this set can be slotted for full effect and still have room to squeeze in a little something extra, which you can see for yourself easily in a planner. 

 

2) Howling Twilight is a powerful autohit stun and fear power (and slow, and -regen) which is an additional control, and Dark Servant has Tenebrous Tentacles which is an additional control, and Black Hole is a phase shift which is an additional control (albeit one a lot of people don't like), and finally while Tar Patch and Darkest Night are not mezzes per se they provide a significant tactical advantage which is going to enhance your ability to - get this - control fights.

 

 

[DeepRootz]

On 11/6/2019 at 1:40 PM, Falsey said:

Dark affinity is extremely good, with fade being the rockstar of the set. You wouldn't regret it.

Working on fire/dark now to be able to do it all.  Love the theme of it, and fade is just awesome.  I feel like dark affinity outshines /rad once iod.

[Carnifax]

4 hours ago, Erydanus said:

If your definition of proc-able is damage procs only well, I think you have a skewed perspective.

Nothing wrong with a bit of skew to ones perspective. 

 

Proc-able I parse more as "not poop". Chance for -recharge is poop. Chance for -ToHit is poop (especially for a Dark Affinity. You've loads of -ToHit. Spend your slot on something else). Chance for Immob on a controller (even an Illusionist). Meh. I've better things for my slots.  

 

Forced Feedback? Achilles? Gaussians? Hook them to my veins!

Pacing of the Turtle? Razzle Dazzle? Absolute Amazement? Poop. 

Quote

 Howling Twilight is a powerful autohit stun and fear power

I love Howling (it has my favourite noise in the game) but remember the stun is minion-only and the Fear is crap-fear, not good-fear. (ie the run-away Fear rather than stand-there-trembling fear). Afraid rather than Terrified. 

Quote

Tar Patch and Darkest Night are not mezzes per se they provide a significant tactical advantage which is going to enhance your ability to - get this - control fights.

Darkest Night isn't a control. It just isn't. If we're going to start counting those as Controls then the label becomes meaningless. Control as I used it was mezzes (useful mezzes at that. Blackholes only purpose is to let you take a Pool Power, which is sorely needed in Dark. Everything else is fab), which (compared to say Rad or Trick Arrow Dark has less of). Fluffy is amazing granted and brings extra mezzing. Problem is you're not really sure who he's going to aim at. 

 

Overall though I think we're arguing over very little. Dark is amazing. It's not the most amazing at everything but there's no set it doesn't go incredibly well with. 

[Doc Ranger]

I will say that I use Howling Twilight all the time. Like nearly every fight. That and HoD is great when cast back to back. If there were one power that I use very little on the list it's Darkest Night. I only use it for heavy hitter bosses because everything else crumbles too quickly.

 

 

[ninja surprise]

I'm making a Fire/Trick Arrow. TA adds more control and sweet debuffs to boost my damage. Maybe it'll help the imps stay alive?

And I never have to buff a teammate!

[Razia]

On 11/6/2019 at 10:40 PM, Falsey said:

Dark affinity is extremely good, with fade being the rockstar of the set. You wouldn't regret it.

Really? For me it's Soul Absorption, never ever have endurance issues.

[Crowcus Pocus]

4 hours ago, Razia said:

Really? For me it's Soul Absorption, never ever have endurance issues.

They're both great. I just think that being able to provide 25% Def All (and some exotic resistances) to the whole party with PB+Fade is extremely good in a set that is already so versatile.

[roleki]

On 11/12/2019 at 1:01 PM, ninja surprise said:

I'm making a Fire/Trick Arrow. TA adds more control and sweet debuffs to boost my damage. Maybe it'll help the imps stay alive?

And I never have to buff a teammate!

I would think that /TA should have enough debuff to keep mobs from doing ALL the bad things to your Imps, especially if Smoke and Flash Arrow stack at all. 

 

Just make sure you disable redraw in the character editor interface, or you will go insane.  

[Tacheyon]

Have you given thought about our Lord and Master /Traps?

 

With your FFG you run decreased risk of getting mezz'd plus the divine touch of +def.

 

With Caltrops you can have your foes run to and fro....if they could escape the clutches of your holy Fire Cages and Hot Feet.

 

Also for that added kick you can plant a Poison Trap that will hold everyone around you, plus a Trip mine to send them up to the heavens....in pieces.

 

Seriously though I am only level 18 and already can see a lot of power in this build.