Paying to slot my Character!

[Vea]

Not actually - but in theory I would. Hear me out.

 

I'm fed up of spending time in the Auction House trying not to be ripped off and making sure I don't add an extra digit on bids. I also don't hoard enhancements for ease of use (I should..).

 

What if I was able to post my build here and people tender their service of buying all the enhancements for me and transferring them to me in the trade window, 70 enhancements at a time. Obviously for a fee.

 

I'd be willing to pay 10-15% of the build value as a fee and any extra savings you could find would be your competitive advantage. Most builds I've done cost around 1bn. That would be a 100m fee for your time plus the pre-determined estimate price.

 

The logistics of this would need to be refined and discussed prior.

 

My suggested method would be as follows:

1. Post build with estimated cost of the build.
2. 'Builders' post a fee they would be happy with and any feedback on original estimate.
3. Price and payment agreed.
4. Date and time of transfer agreed.
5. Deposit of 10% of the fee sent to winning 'Builder'
6. During transfer the remainder of Inf is transferred at the same time (often over multiple trades)

[Yomo Kimyata]

Interesting idea!  I can see two stumbling blocks, that would have an impact if I were to do it:

 

1. 10-15% fee seems pretty light.  Picking up ?90? enhancements, or making them, takes a fair amount of effort and even more importantly time.  I  wouldn't be willing to work for 10%, but I think a lot of people might.  All kinds of ways to have fun in this universe!  An idea:  offer a fixed amount for the job (I'm thinking 2bn) and that way the contractor gets to determine her own profit.  That would cost you more, but you are paying to avoid the inconvenience of the part of building you don't like to do.

 

2. I wouldn't want to go through the hassle of opening a trade window that many times, and emails would be worse.  I would only want to do it if I could build the character and transfer it.  Is there a way to transfer characters?  I can only think that it's intra-account, so granting access to your account on a server that you don't normally use might work out.  Then at the end of it you transfer the alt to the server you want.  The problem with that is that someone else has access to your account for a period of time, and I can understand that's not desirable.

 

My two inf.  Good luck with this!  It's an out-of-the-box idea and I support your aims.

[Sakai]

An option would be to purchase the enhancements, throw them into a SG base and then when you got your money invite the person in and  let then collect their goodies. 

[Troo]

Like a game show!! "Bob, I can guess that build cost for 800 million."

 

But we have a market: If the black market / auction house could only let us upload a shopping list and then place the bids.. hmm, you still might make a mistake with a zero.

 

I agree with Sakai - doing it in in-game from a SG base is the only way I can think of it currently working. But it does sound risky and open to exploit.

 

Hmm.. you know, this gets real close to being something folks would get banned for. Large transfers of currency. sharing logins. transferring accounts.. bad bad bad

 

After consideration, this is a terrible idea. 

Use of the word 'Pay' in the subject should have been a clue that this was either click bait or maybe something possibly nefarious. (even if unintentional)

 

@Veayou are correct though. 1B / 70 = 14.3 million per enhancement average, that is overpaying. Through normal game play and crafting that number would likely come down significantly.

 

Maybe if@Vea could get another player to role play a shop keeper.. well that's just sounds.. back to this is a terrible idea. Stop Being Lazy (just kidding, there could be an idea there) 

[seebs]

Thanks to globals, as long as people have some kind of investment in their reputation, cheating seems like it wouldn't be a good plan. Like, I wouldn't actually worry about it for a build that was only a couple hundred million inf. It should be easy to just make an SG for the purpose, though. Make SG, put down an enhancement table, invite an alt to join it, they drop off the enhancements, you give them money. That said, I would have no idea what pricing would be like, or how long it would take. My intuition is that at 10-15% of value, it'd be a better use of my time to just marketeer?

[Sakai]

It would probable asier to just marketeer foe the 10/15% but it would give the opprtunities to find new areas to market on. 

[Vea]

It seems like a consensus that the fee is a little light or not worth it, but i'd say to that there is three elements of being paid. First the fee, then second your ability to profit per enhancement vs the estimate. For example in the estimate LoTG +Recharge could be estimated at 8m each, where they can easily be bought at 7m. And the third one being you save 10% if you were to sell via the auction house.

 

As for a trade I think its a function within the game that could actually be used here. The SG base is a nice idea but would be susceptible to scams. (throwback to Runescape scams) - but again this would be down to the logistics of the transaction and can change per person. 

 

As for opportunity cost of spending time doing this vs traditional marketing would be down to individuals and how well they can market.

 

Perhaps a case study?

 

Spoiler

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This good ol' Farming build. 

Highlights of this build and my estimate of the cost (not spending much time or thought really):

 

Enhancement	Price per
15 Purples	22m
18 Winter*	20m
4 LoTGs	7.5m
5 ATO*	9m (more if superior)
3 PVP Procs	12m
3 Uniques	5m
45 'Other'	2.5m

 

*Assumption of non-superior in the trade, as I have hundreds of catalysts and it always seems to be better to use your own.

 

Total Cost = 928.5m

Fee @ 15% = 139.5 (Rounded up)

 

From personal experience, from the estimated numbers above includes a sizeable profit I've achieved on the market myself. Assuming 1m profit per enhancement that's another 90m. As for inf/min - this all depends on your stock and how fast you can purchase. It would need to take longer than 70 minutes to be worse off than farming for inf (based on 2m inf/min).

[ZacKing]

This is like the shop at home service at my supermarket.  lol

[Yomo Kimyata]

3 hours ago, Vea said:

It seems like a consensus that the fee is a little light or not worth it, but i'd say to that there is three elements of being paid. First the fee, then second your ability to profit per enhancement vs the estimate. For example in the estimate LoTG +Recharge could be estimated at 8m each, where they can easily be bought at 7m. And the third one being you save 10% if you were to sell via the auction house.

 

 

Again, just my opinion.  But my ability to profit per enhancement is happening anyway.  Why should I want to provide YOU 5x LotG 7.5% when I can provide five, ten, hundreds to the marketplace?  I think I would want something to sweeten the pot.

 

3 hours ago, Vea said:

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

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This good ol' Farming build. 

Highlights of this build and my estimate of the cost (not spending much time or thought really):

 

Enhancement	Price per
15 Purples	22m
18 Winter*	20m
4 LoTGs	7.5m
5 ATO*	9m (more if superior)
3 PVP Procs	12m
3 Uniques	5m
45 'Other'	2.5m

 

*Assumption of non-superior in the trade, as I have hundreds of catalysts and it always seems to be better to use your own.

 

Total Cost = 928.5m

Fee @ 15% = 139.5 (Rounded up)

 

From personal experience, from the estimated numbers above includes a sizeable profit I've achieved on the market myself. Assuming 1m profit per enhancement that's another 90m. As for inf/min - this all depends on your stock and how fast you can purchase. It would need to take longer than 70 minutes to be worse off than farming for inf (based on 2m inf/min).

Purples/winters -- terrible profit potential.  If you bought winters at 10, good for you!  Otherwise buy at 20, sell at 25 for net 2.5mm profit per?  Meh

LotGs -- costs about 3mm per to make them, on average.  Why make you 4 as opposed to making a hundred for the AH?

ATOs -- buy at 6mm, spend 500k on converting, sell at 10mm (9 after taxes).  Again, why not do this in large quatities?

etc.  It sounds like you have a good grip on marketing.  Why again are you looking to outsource it?

[Vea]

9 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

 It sounds like you have a good grip on marketing.  Why again are you looking to outsource it?

Thanks! I'm a little bit fed up of slotting characters, and generally speaking I don't enjoy spending time in the AH - I also end up being the chump overpaying when it comes slotting, I'm not patient enough to let bids fill and prefer paying for the instant buy price 90% of the time. So most of the time I'm the price taker.

 

I don't get much time to play either, so I'd rather do a taskforce or run story arcs over marketing. If there was traction to this idea, I'd be the buyer because I value my time.

 

As to why do this over than mass production? Variety is the spice of life! Do you want to convert 100 ATOs to make 250m, and then wait for them to sell through etc. There's also an element of risk if supply of ATOs spike (see winter IOs recently.. granted they've gone back up).

 

Expanding from the example build above here would be the total profit from this 'contract'.

 

Enhancement	Price per enhancement (est)	Profit margin per enh*	Saving from not selling on AH**	Total Profit from Margin	Total Saving from not using AH
15 Purples	22	1	2.2	15	33
18 Winter IO	20	1	2	18	36
4 LoTGs	7.5	1	0.8	4	3
5 ATO	9	1	0.9	5	4.5
3 PvP	12	1	1.2	3	3.6
3 Uniques	5	1	0.5	3	1.5
45 Other	2.5	0.5	0.3	22.5	11.25
TOTAL				70.5	92.85

 

*Assumed you can make 1m for most enhancements and 500k for those classified as 'other'. The profit margin here is defined as the difference between the Price per enhancement estimate and the cost to source that particular enhancement. This in reality will be different, I think assuming 1m profit can be made is extremely conservative.

 

**This 'saving' is not paying the fee on the AH and is 10% of the price estimate.

 

Total profit from this contract would be: 70.5 + 92.85 + 139.5 = 302.85. Which to me, seems substantial? Divide that by how long it would take you to do it would be your inf/min. If it took 1 hour, still gives a tidy 5m inf/min. I'm not sure what is considered 'good' but considering the number of people who farm for inf, anything over 2m/min is decent.

 

I think this type of marketing is geared towards those who have a large stock of enhancements ready to go.

[Shred Monkey]

I could see this working.  You post a build and what you're willing to pay.   If someone wants to take you up on it they contact you.  Perhaps you negotiate a little and work out the details, then you proceed.  This seems very plausible.  I wouldn't do it, but I could imagine it happening.  

 

 

 

 

[Sakai]

27 minutes ago, Shred Monkey said:

I could see this working.  You post a build and what you're willing to pay.   If someone wants to take you up on it they contact you.  Perhaps you negotiate a little and work out the details, then you proceed.  This seems very plausible.  I wouldn't do it, but I could imagine it happening.  

 

 

 

 

Yeah I would go for this actually. 

[Yomo Kimyata]

It feels a bit like Tom Sawyer getting his friends to paint his fence, but power to you!  I'd be a buyer of this service.  Why not let people contract to provide me goods at the lowest price?  I'd make out like a bandit reselling to the AH.

[Troo]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I'd make out like a bandit reselling to the AH.

troo

 

Hey could you go collect 70 enhancements for me at the lowest price you can find so that I can resell them. Sounds like a personal shopper for my store on the Black Market.

[honoroit]

The extremes of laze! 

 

Gobsmacked, stunned, flabberghasted! 

 

People these days, don't even cook their own dinner. 

 

My goodness, my goodness indeed. 

[Fan Mail]

If I can front the billion INF and the time it takes to craft it all, what makes you think I need 138 million INF?  Not trying to be negative Nelly, just saying it wouldn't be for me. 

 

That's 30-60 minutes of AE fire farming (I know, others can do that faster).  That's more worth my time.  /shrug

 

On the flip side, if you could GET someone to do this for you, good luck!

Edited January 14, 2020 by tafilr

[Vea]

12 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

It feels a bit like Tom Sawyer getting his friends to paint his fence, but power to you!  I'd be a buyer of this service.  Why not let people contract to provide me goods at the lowest price?  I'd make out like a bandit reselling to the AH.

Sure. If you could, why wouldn't you. But it looks like a sellers market based on the people saying they wouldn't do it!

 

10 hours ago, honoroit said:

The extremes of laze! 

 

Gobsmacked, stunned, flabberghasted! 

 

People these days, don't even cook their own dinner. 

 

My goodness, my goodness indeed. 

Using Yomo's signature as inspiration, I want to be a superhero, not a trader..

 

8 hours ago, tafilr said:

If I can front the billion INF and the time it takes to craft it all, what makes you think I need 138 million INF?  Not trying to be negative Nelly, just saying it wouldn't be for me. 

 

That's 30-60 minutes of AE fire farming (I know, others can do that faster).  That's more worth my time.  /shrug

 

On the flip side, if you could GET someone to do this for you, good luck!

Not a negative Nelly at all! - I would say see above, that the 138million is only a portion of the total inf gained. I'm not entirely sure how long it would take to get 70-90 enhancements, but from experience I don't think it would take longer than an hour. On that assumption its 2m inf/min just on the fee alone which is comparable to AE Fire farming.

The investment up front from the builder is an obstacle - but a 30% return isn't too shabby.

 

I guess if anyone is interested, they can post a build to see if anyone would take them up on it.. if not I will (if I have the inf eek.)

[Yomo Kimyata]

If this were to work, I think you would need to front the buyer the capital, then wait a week or two while she does her magic, then collect your items.  You can buy 70-90 enhancements in an hour.  You cannot buy 70-90 specific enhancements in an hour.  That goes to your aversion of being a price taker.  I *think* you know that.

 

I enjoy getting bang for the buck, but if you want to contract this out, I really think you need to offer a lot more upside.  
 

Tell you what, I’ll provide a 1bn build for 5bn.  And I’ll pay 1.5bn for a 1bn build.  That’s market making!

[Myrmidon]

On 1/13/2020 at 5:35 AM, Vea said:

Not actually - but in theory I would. Hear me out.

 

I'm fed up of spending time in the Auction House trying not to be ripped off and making sure I don't add an extra digit on bids. I also don't hoard enhancements for ease of use (I should..).

 

What if I was able to post my build here and people tender their service of buying all the enhancements for me and transferring them to me in the trade window, 70 enhancements at a time. Obviously for a fee.

 

I'd be willing to pay 10-15% of the build value as a fee and any extra savings you could find would be your competitive advantage. Most builds I've done cost around 1bn. That would be a 100m fee for your time plus the pre-determined estimate price.

 

The logistics of this would need to be refined and discussed prior.

 

My suggested method would be as follows:

1. Post build with estimated cost of the build.
2. 'Builders' post a fee they would be happy with and any feedback on original estimate.
3. Price and payment agreed.
4. Date and time of transfer agreed.
5. Deposit of 10% of the fee sent to winning 'Builder'
6. During transfer the remainder of Inf is transferred at the same time (often over multiple trades)

I use the time between teams to work my own builds (28 fully IOd, with one being worked on as we speak). The one thing I possess above all else is time, so this concept appeals to me. If you decide to actually run with this idea, contact me (either here or in game) and I am certain that we can reach a satisfying accommodation.

 

@Myrmidon

[tidge]

On 1/14/2020 at 5:57 PM, tafilr said:

If I can front the billion INF and the time it takes to craft it all, what makes you think I need 138 million INF?  Not trying to be negative Nelly, just saying it wouldn't be for me. 

 

That's 30-60 minutes of AE fire farming (I know, others can do that faster).  That's more worth my time.  /shrug

 

On the flip side, if you could GET someone to do this for you, good luck!

The above quote is my rational thought on the subject. My emotional reaction is that the proposal is extremely lazy, as a few hundred million inf is definitely not hard to come by. Farming isn't even the way I would recommend (although it is easily available) as the market can make the inf for you when you aren't even logged in to the game. Once you have the first 10K inf it is pretty straightforward to get the next 1M, and once you have 1M the jump to tens of millions is easy. Depending on the market choices you make governs how fast you can get hundreds of millions, but from my experience with *very* low-levels of AH use I've been able to double 200 million inf in about a week on low-level toons as they level up... and I am an extremely casual user of the AH.

 

In less than a year of simply playing the game and playing the market my SG base is already loaded with IOs (ATO, PvP, common useful sets) that have been passed around different toons (as they level or simply try things out) or are just waiting for builds. Heck, I'm at the point of extra catalysts, unslotters, converters, and merits I will pull some 50+ characters out of mothballs just to craft/convert/catalyze/whatever ATO/PVP sets for try-out characters at lvl 7... so I suppose I am in the category that could 'easily' try to negotiate with the OP on the basis of the original proposal and I simply don't think would be worth my time.

 

I'm a little surprised at the 1 billion inf estimate for any (single) build. I haven't maxed out all the ATs, (definitely no brutes or blasters) so I'm willing to learn something. I have a few builds that I've kitted out extensively; one is fully kitted in *both* the first two build slots (different power choices) and I think that one is probably somewhere around 600 million. If ATO sets are costing that much, then I suggest Pack/Converter roulette.

 

Another note: if the OP is  including things like Boosters and Hami-O's in the estimates, those aren't things someone else is likely to provide 'at a discount' just because someone thinks the AH prices are too high.

[Olly]

The cleanest way to do this is [at-cost + % markup]. The problem is, there's no mechanism in-game for someone to easily be transparent about the cost of the item.  Even then, I'm not sure you would find someone willing to spend the time if you're looking at 10-15% margins.  I'd say you'd need at least ~50% margins before it becomes appealing enough. (But you'd be right back to the problem of transparency.)  You might even farm out the kitting to multiple players for one build.  

[Yomo Kimyata]

Recently I’ve been putting together 2nd and 3rd builds for my 50s, and started thinking again about how something like this would work.  I’m currently on something like:

 

1.  Buyer emails Provider seed capital and a shopping list.  Call it 999,999,999 since that’s the max.

2. Provider purchases/creates/pulls from storage the goods.

3.  Provider emails items to Buyer

4.  Buyer emails remaining fee to Provider for services rendered.  Call it 1-4bn.

 

There are two trust points since there are no binding contracts:  Buyer trusts Provider won’t run away with the seed capital; Provider trusts Buyer won’t stiff him on fees.  I’d imagine time frame could be a short as three days but 1-2weeks seems more likely.  
 

Just spitballing.

[Vea]

21 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Recently I’ve been putting together 2nd and 3rd builds for my 50s, and started thinking again about how something like this would work.  I’m currently on something like:

 

1.  Buyer emails Provider seed capital and a shopping list.  Call it 999,999,999 since that’s the max.

2. Provider purchases/creates/pulls from storage the goods.

3.  Provider emails items to Buyer

4.  Buyer emails remaining fee to Provider for services rendered.  Call it 1-4bn.

 

There are two trust points since there are no binding contracts:  Buyer trusts Provider won’t run away with the seed capital; Provider trusts Buyer won’t stiff him on fees.  I’d imagine time frame could be a short as three days but 1-2weeks seems more likely.  
 

Just spitballing.

I don't think the transfer of funds/enhancements is the issue with this idea.. all that can be ironed out.

 

The issue is participants, based on feedback here it seems that nobody is willing to do it unless its for a high fee. Adding 50% to my bids would fill them pretty quickly.

[Giocondi]

How much time would you expect is involved in this process? How much would someone be able to earn for themselves if they spent the same amount of time just earning on their own terms. The way your idea is designed currently, you want people who have a good understanding of the market to do the shopping. These people would know what enhancements usually go for to avoid being ripped off and possibly have some other techniques to obtain wanted enhancements at favorable prices. These same people are probably A) already well off regarding influence and B) could likely make as much or more money in the same amount of time without the risk of not getting paid. I think the markup would need to be much higher than you are willing to pay for this to work. Even the non-optimal method of earning influence by fire farming would net people over 100 million per hour. So I'd say at a bare minimum your scenario would have to take less than an hour for anyone to consider it. @Olly mentioned something like a 50% markup would be necessary for this to work and I think that is a pretty fair assessment.

 

Personally I kind of like building my toon over the course of a few days while I play. I usually play with basic IO's to 50 and then start the build once I get there and enjoy seeing the power spikes with each set completion.

[Darkir]

I have never considered selling any of the many many builds I post and create for people, but this post makes me think maybe I should and then buy all the enhancements and boosters too. Then trade them to a toon for my time on the build (anywhere from 15 minutes to 2 hours depending on the build and how much I like it. If I like a build or the interaction of powers I'll spend ages on a build min/maxing, but that's more for me than them) and the time I spent procuring the enhancements. I generally use 40-50 million an hour  for how much influence I can make farming (especially teamed with a brute on my 🔥/🏃 corruptor). 

 

Something about it just doesn't feel quite right though. However, I think I'd make a killing, I could just hoard the sets I use the most and make the profit on both ends of the deal.