Could we please get these costume pieces moved from dev only?

[Jimmy]

7 hours ago, VileTerror said:

My first post in this thread was addressing the "quality" line of rhetoric in particular, though.  Using that as a reason for not doing it just doesn't fly for me, and I feel it is important to address that.

It was addressed, but as you pointed out, this is a matter of opinion and we obviously do not agree 🙂

12 hours ago, Jimmy said:

Many NPC pieces are simply not built to be used in the normal editor. They are frequently anchored to the wrong location (eg: a back piece in the belt slot) on the body or the actual mesh doesn't line up with the standard character model, and often do not recolour properly (if at all). On top of that, there are many pieces that are tied to signature NPCs (eg: Neuron's arms, or Manticore's hat... thing) which will not be added to the editor for that reason.

As with everything we do (both from a development and operations standpoint), we strive to maintain - or beat - the level of quality and professionalism from the retail version of the game game wherever possible.

[Bossk_Hogg]

That still sounds like letting perfect be the enemy of good. 

 

Is there anything we can do to help speed this process along? Post screenshots of pieces that work or anything?

 

New costume pieces seem like they would have less testing involved than powerset balance, which has been the main dev focus for almost a year. For example, how hard was it to remove the flag for the malaise pattern?

[VileTerror]

Foremost; apologies to Mechano for essentially threadjacking.  I promise my intent is to wrap this back around to addressing your express request, but it's a bit of a gambit for me, and may meander a bit.

 

I think that I often don't conduct myself in the way I really hope to when it comes to this particular topic of discussion.  I'm passionate about this game, and more than that; I'm passionate about the untapped potential which City of Heroes is sitting on.  I would like to apologize for sometimes allowing my passion to blind me to saying things which might be hurtful or harmful.  It's not my intent, but I know intent only offers context.  If I'm guilty of crossing lines and being offensive or dismissive, I am genuinely sorry for my failings there.

I criticize because I care, and I don't want these criticisms to cross the line in to feeling like attacks.  I don't know any of the Homecoming Team personally, so in my own mind, nothing I say is meant to be a personal attack.  But I know that it's not my decision if something I say feels like an attack; so I preface what I'm saying here with all of this to better mitigate the risk of crossing those lines.  I also want to express myself firmly enough that I impart into others the same feelings of importance that I have for these topics.

 

I can't let the sleeping dog lie.  I really want to get in there and help City be the best it can, and the best which I can do right now is help in the ways which I know how.  My background in game design was very much in the "high design and philosophy" end of the spectrum.  I just never quite managed to be skilled or competitive enough in actual asset creation and coding to provide a meaningful contribution there.  It's something I regret, but I was fortunate enough to be able to put my "big picture" skills to use.  

 

One of the biggest concerns I have had with Homecoming from the get-go is the lack of clarity in the design philosophy and intent behind the decision making.  This latest topic just illustrates it again.

"Quality" (capital Q) is an opinion.  That's fair.  But it's also been an obfuscated opinion here.  If it's a matter of "I'll know it when I see it" for the Homecoming Team, why even bother using the word "quality?"  That is, by definition, arbitrary decision-making.  "the level of quality and professionalism from the retail version of the game" doesn't actually establish a baseline.  The Quality of the existing game content was wildly all over the map!  And that's not just in terms of assets and code; but also in leadership and design philosophy.  It even extends to community and social engagement.

 

I know what I'm asking for isn't a simple thing; there are professional positions and even entire divisions in larger studios/publishers which handle this kind of work.  But I must reiterate the importance of clear lines of communication when it comes to intent.  By the graces of chance or by intentional designs, Homecoming has basically become the de-facto authority for the future of City of Heroes during this moment in history.  That's a lot of responsibility, frankly.  And I'd like to know, and I really genuinely think the entire community (even the ones not presently engaging with Homecoming) would benefit from knowing how you view that authority.

 

If you want to say that you have standards of quality, then please explain them in clear, unambiguous terms and metrics that aren't so flimsy as "feeling like home."

Otherwise, I think it would be much more fair to say, honestly . . . the design philosophy behind City right now is arbitrary, and there isn't actually a metric of definable quality.  It's a metric of "Quality"/opinion.

 

In short:  

Please provide clear goal posts.  

From here, I can't see any.

[DR_Mechano]

Firstly Vile, no problem with the thread hijack.

 

Secondly this:

5 hours ago, Bossk_Hogg said:

That still sounds like letting perfect be the enemy of good. 

 

Is there anything we can do to help speed this process along? Post screenshots of pieces that work or anything?

 

New costume pieces seem like they would have less testing involved than powerset balance, which has been the main dev focus for almost a year. For example, how hard was it to remove the flag for the malaise pattern?

Sums up my feelings. The phrase is an old one that "better is the enemy of good enough".

 

Firstly a history lesson on where that phrase comes from just because it's a bit of fun. It was actually attributed to Stalin during World War 2 where he told his military vehicle designs to not overdesign and overengineer their vehicles, that as long as it was 'good enough' to put it into the field. You saw this with the T-34, it was mass produced and far from perfect even in its construction (I live near Bovington Tank museum which has a T-34 and its build quality is pretty shoddy compared to the US, British and German tanks they have on display) but very effective, it did exactly what the Russians needed it to do and only the most important upgrades (switching from the 57mm to the 85mm as the war went on) were done because what had been 'good enough' was no longer the case.

 

I get the feeling that Homecoming is kind of falling to the problem of "better is the enemy of good enough" with regards the easiest to move dev costume pieces. They don't NEED to be perfect, they just need to be functional. There are many more examples of this, for example the big chunky IDF pieces (and yes I made a point of not using the belt which would be problematic since it clips with anything not tights):

 

All we're asking is for the HC team to be as direct with use as possible about what the Issue is with regards these pieces. Like the ones listed so far in this topic, why is moving them from dev to player going to cause major issues? What needs to be done in order for these to be moved over? Is it a simple case of switching a flag or is there a more detailed process? I'm with Vile on this, you definitely need to be more open on things like this, just saying 'it doesn't measure up to our quality' doesn't really cut it (and I mean that in the most respectful way).

 

You've got some people in this very thread offering to do the work of transferring them over FOR you or OuroDev has already enabled these pieces on their servers. If you need someone to go through and literally list every costume piece that is fine as is and could be transferred and other pieces which are CLEARLY not ready to be transferred because there are major clipping issues, they're in the wrong category, they cover MORE than one category (the Ouroborus Mender stuff is actually ones of these, the items cover shoulders, chest AND belt at the same time and would require being split into their own pieces to work) or shouldn't be (even though, personally, I'm against the whole 'signature heroes get special outfits' gig but well, guess I'd have to respec that).

 

Heck I'm willing to do that right now, I'll sit down with a word document and make notes of both female, male and HUGE to see what pieces have problems, what don't and mark out which ones should be transferred over.

 

Edit:

Hell I've just been looking through and ones I THOUGHT would be easy to port over turn out to have numerous pieces in the wrong areas. The PPD Hardshell stuff...MOST of it is fine but there's things like the gloves being in the head detail 1 area (why?) and the same with the 60s Arachnos stuff having what SHOULD be mounted to the gloves (the big spikes) actually be a separate option instead be for the Gloves AND Boots as one piece, once again, in the head detail area (seriously why?!). Now THAT is going to be a pain to fix because essentially you'd have to split up that one costume piece into two separate parts, mesh the parts that should be mounted onto the gloves together with the actual gloves piece and then make it the boots spikes an option and then set it so it can only be one colour without any of the overlays on it (like Sharp, Fat strip etc.).

 

This is the MM pet AI all over again isn't it?

Edited January 26, 2020 by DR_Mechano

[Jimmy]

I'm really not sure how I can be any clearer on this specific topic. I've given exact examples of why certain pieces will not be added.

On 1/25/2020 at 12:03 AM, Jimmy said:

Many NPC pieces are simply not built to be used in the normal editor. They are frequently anchored to the wrong location (eg: a back piece in the belt slot) on the body or the actual mesh doesn't line up with the standard character model, and often do not recolour properly (if at all). On top of that, there are many pieces that are tied to signature NPCs (eg: Neuron's arms, or Manticore's hat... thing) which will not be added to the editor for that reason.

@DR_Mechano just proved my point:

9 hours ago, DR_Mechano said:

Hell I've just been looking through and ones I THOUGHT would be easy to port over turn out to have numerous pieces in the wrong areas. The PPD Hardshell stuff...MOST of it is fine but there's things like the gloves being in the head detail 1 area (why?) and the same with the 60s Arachnos stuff having what SHOULD be mounted to the gloves (the big spikes) actually be a separate option instead be for the Gloves AND Boots as one piece, once again, in the head detail area (seriously why?!). Now THAT is going to be a pain to fix because essentially you'd have to split up that one costume piece into two separate parts, mesh the parts that should be mounted onto the gloves together with the actual gloves piece and then make it the boots spikes an option and then set it so it can only be one colour without any of the overlays on it (like Sharp, Fat strip etc.).

Many of the NPC parts are a mess. As for the ones that aren't - I refer you to my earlier post 🙂

[Bionic_Flea]

But Jimmy, why can't I have everything I want right now!?!?!

[DR_Mechano]

4 hours ago, Jimmy said:

I'm really not sure how I can be any clearer on this specific topic. I've given exact examples of why certain pieces will not be added.

@DR_Mechano just proved my point:

Many of the NPC parts are a mess. As for the ones that aren't - I refer you to my earlier post 🙂

That was me essentially confirming that this wasn't a case of 'mass unlock everything'. There is honestly a surprising amount of stuff in the wrong section or designed to work only with a very specific other costume piece. I'll run down a list of all the stuff that DOESN'T work to, unfortunately, crush peoples hopes and dreams right here.

 

Female:

The sybil stuff people are so hungry for REALLY doesn't work unless it has the belt we have because it doesn't actually connect to anything, it looks terrible with anything but that piece. The Sashes people want are, as well, designed to only work with a very specific chest piece. They can be made to work but...yeah...that's a level of quality I can very much understand WHY you're not willing to go through with it.

 

The Peneople Yin stuff is basically the model itself cut into chunks. The chest isn't an overlay or chest detail, it's literally the entire chest model including skin and it's the same with her head gear, her legs AND her boots. The only part that is semi-feasible is the gloves and even then you've got some chunky clipping going on which would require a major rework. This is the case for ALL the Mother Mayhem pieces apart from the Jacket (yes that includes the kickass boots, they clip with everything not specifically made for Mother Mayhem).

 

Diabolique is equally in a mess, with one of her gloves being head detail 2, the chest itself missing the hand that's in said category and most of its other arm since that is made up of the part that's in the gloves section. Her legs are literally just skin colour and her boots ONLY function with those legs. The only parts that, even if we were to transfer them, that would remotely work are the head piece, the chest detail and the belt.

 

Desdemona is also in a Penelope Yin situation where it's just her model in separate chunks, so those boots people would love to have would require major 3D remodeling in order to remotely function.

 

The Robo-Victoria stuff, apart from the arms, is all a signature NPC so even if it did work and didn't have the major problems of massive gaps unless you use those pieces it couldn't be ported over anyway.

 

The Widow Collar and Tights pattern. The Collar clips with a LOT of things and the tights pattern, whilst it is functional it only really looks good if you're using both the chest and bottoms section of it so....eh it's borderline.

 

Male and Huge:

As mentioned the PPD Hardshell stuff is all there and it's all semi-functional or functional but there are things like the chest piece being made up of TWO pieces, one in head detail 2 and the other the regular chest piece, those would need to be meshed together which isn't a fun task for a 3D modeller, easy? Maybe? Tedious? Very much so. The Gloves being in head detail 1 for example is another thing that would require moving their category.

 

The Warwork stuff LOOKS functional...at first...then you notice that the chest option actually has a gap in it, so unless you're using it with the Warwork belt and legs it actually doesn't match up with the legs since it's actually wider than the standard model and actually hovers slightly off the waist area.

 

Apart from that most of the other stuff is signature characters, so things like Statesman's suit, Reichmans outfit (which is actually 2 separate pieces and the jacket does NOT work without the chest detail piece) all that Jazz.

 

The Wyvern Stuff...unfortunately whilst pieces of it do work, it encounters the problem of one piece doing too many things at once. The Shoulders are ALSO a back piece, the Chest piece is ALSO the belt. As such...yeah...major reworking needing to be done.

 

the Legacy of Steel shoulders, just like the Wyvern stuff are one piece realistic being two pieces. It'd need to be split into shoulders and chest detail.

 

Ok now we'll move on to the stuff that DOES work.

 

Female:

So...yeah...it's the pieces I've already listed and a few others. The Athletic Tights options, the Lady Robo head, chest gloves and legs (I swear there are boots in there somewhere but they're in an entirely other category and I would have to really go digging for them but a lot of parts don't also have a boots option), the Tiellekku crown, the Veil Crown, the Lamashtu chest detail and belt and the Widow gloves, boots and chest detail. The Seer blindfold also works without issue. Out of a LOT of pieces those are the only ones that don't require major work in some way and that's not exactly a large selection.

 

Male and Huge: 

So, the IDF stuff, as mentioned previously in the thread works apart from the belt we currently don't have which causes clipping issues with everything but tights. The Minotaur belt works without issue as well. There are a variety of hats that work, they're all the Official Hat we currently but with various logos on them, you've got Security Guard, RIPD, PPD and Cage Consortium, these could probably be rolled into options for the Official hat. There's also the Legacy hats, they work ok...and that's your lot.

 

Conclusion:

As you can see guys there is a metric butt-ton of stuff that doesn't work for a variety of reasons so yeah some of the most in-demand pieces would require major 3D modelling reworks to even remotely look 'not crappy' which is probably going to take a lot of time.

 

Edit: Bonus section! Stuff I can't even find!

One of the major things that miffed me off was that the IDF missile launching backpack (which would be awesome for cyborg style heroes) is completely missing from the costume editor, it's just not there. That makes me think that its linked to model the same way that literally EVERYTHING pre-going rogue was done. Notice how there are no Freakshow arms, no Snake heads, none of the regular Carnie pieces and so on. This is because all these aren't costume pieces, they're all part of one model, everything. This means if we want anything from the pre-Going Rogue factions you'd have to completely hack apart the models, make it so they could be recoloured (which isn't an easy task) which could probably require retexture them. Make sure they don't break anything when you enable them, putting them in the right place so that they can't clip with anything (the snake heads would have to go in monstrous since they can't use hair and they would have to disable all other details, even the ears, heck they may even have to go into their own category). That is a huge undertaking.

 

Ourodev did managed to make the Freakshow arms available along with the PDP Hardsuit stuff but that, as mentioned, those are on Issue 24 servers and apparently stuff on Issue 24 servers isn't very easy to translate to Issue 25 servers (whether this is by design or an unhappy accident I don't know). Those Freakshow arms cannot also be coloured, they're just bits of the NPC hacked off essentially. Now the Hardsuit stuff is probably someone going through and manually making the thing unwonky but that is a lot of work. Like I said it involves moving things to the correct category, meshing things up with other things so they become one piece and generally a lot of tinkering that currently our dev team, who are working on back-end stuff, simply haven't got the time to do.

Edited January 26, 2020 by DR_Mechano

[SwitchFade]

On 1/25/2020 at 4:19 AM, Jimmy said:

It was addressed, but as you pointed out, this is a matter of opinion and we obviously do not agree 🙂

As with everything we do (both from a development and operations standpoint), we strive to maintain - or beat - the level of quality and professionalism from the retail version of the game game wherever possible.

Here, here; this is commendable and, in my opinion, not only the proper approach but why this team and this server are outstanding.

 

I applaud the stringent standards!

Edited January 26, 2020 by SwitchFade

[DR_Mechano]

Actually, you know what, does anyone have any guides on where the hell to get started on actually working on these things? They say 'be the change you want to see' so to hell with it. I have ZERO knowledge on how things are going to work so a lot of it would be learning as I go. The only documentation I can find is for the Issue 24 servers and just changing skin textures looks like it needs 4 different 'maps'. Sadly I have the artistic talent of a pear so I might have to outsource the actual art editing.

 

Failing that I can at least do work on transferring those pieces I've bought up over from dev only to player and see what happens, just for my own curious nature and hell...even I have any sort of success it may speed up the process. I'd also have to set up my own server...oof that's gonna be fun...

 

...I mean you guys will probably get to it long before I do so...yeah...still, anyone have any helpful pointers on where to start?

[VileTerror]

To fix geometry issues, you'll need something like 3Ds Max or Maya.  There's an opensource 3D modeller program out there too, if memory serves, but it's quite limited compared to the two professional suites.  Or maybe I'm confused.  I sucked so much at 3D modelling that I rather permanently shelved that.

You would also need to read up in OuroDev about the proprietary nature of City's 3D assets.  AND THEN there's the rigging and animation . . . I mean, I -can- 3D model, but it takes me a month to do what some other people can bang out in a couple of nights.  But when it comes to rigging and animation; hoo!  I am le suck.

 

On the 2D plain we're looking at something considerably easier (by my reckoning, anyway).  People swear up and down about Photoshop/Illustrator, but I'll recommend the GIMP.  It's free, opensource, and does everything you -need- from a graphic art program other than quality vector work (haven't found an Illustrator analogous opensource project yet, sorry).

 

You'll also want a Pigg viewer to get in to the game files of City.  The aptly named "PiggViewer" is the only one I know of, but there might be others floating around too.

[Lines]

I've been trying to keep my ear to the ground in terms of 3D assets, since that's my jam. As far as I know, they're still a bit of a mystery to the community as a whole. CoH uses a proprietary 3D model file format.

 

OuroDev/Portal Corps had mentioned that a 3DS Max plugin is in the pipeline (Though i can't find where I saw this now). I don't know exactly what that entails, but if it's at least an import/export function then suddenly all this stuff will become a lot more workable.

 

Bubblewrap has managed to do... something. I don't know what any of this means though, so I guess the process isn't Linesproof yet. I don't even know what there, if anything, is referencing a 3D file.

[DR_Mechano]

6 minutes ago, Lines said:

I've been trying to keep my ear to the ground in terms of 3D assets, since that's my jam. As far as I know, they're still a bit of a mystery to the community as a whole. CoH uses a proprietary 3D model file format.

 

OuroDev/Portal Corps had mentioned that a 3DS Max plugin is in the pipeline (Though i can't find where I saw this now). I don't know exactly what that entails, but if it's at least an import/export function then suddenly all this stuff will become a lot more workable.

 

Bubblewrap has managed to do... something. I don't know what any of this means though, so I guess the process isn't Linesproof yet. I don't even know what there, if anything, is referencing a 3D file.

Bubblewrap was actually successful in getting the freakshow parts over to players, we have no idea how he did it (i imagine the people at Ourodev do) but they basically couldn't be recoloured, you got three options from claws, hook and hammer. He also transferred over the Freakshow Tank parts, again these couldn't be recoloured. I imagine the 'couldn't be recoloured' is what is keeping our devs from doing it because they want to get it done fully and be available to both genders since it was male only at the time of this post.

 

Spoiler

 

 

Edited January 26, 2020 by DR_Mechano

[Lines]

2 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

Bubblewrap was actually successful in getting the freakshow parts over to players, we have no idea how he did it (i imagine the people at Ourodev do) but they basically couldn't be recoloured, you got three options from claws, hook and hammer. He also transferred over the Freakshow Tank parts, again these couldn't be recoloured. I imagine the 'couldn't be recoloured' is what is keeping our devs from doing it because they want to get it done fully and be available to both genders since it was male only at the time of this post.

 

 

I tried my best to give an explanation why the progress stopped there, but I ended up creating more questions for myself, got a bit dizzy, took a short lie down and take back to admit that I really have no clue.

 

I've seen games handle textures in drastically different ways, I really wouldn't have a guess how CoH deals with them.

 

[Sakura Tenshi]

3 hours ago, DR_Mechano said:

Female:

The sybil stuff people are so hungry for REALLY doesn't work unless it has the belt we have because it doesn't actually connect to anything, it looks terrible with anything but that piece.

Didn't stop the live devs from giving it to the Talons and Knives of Vengeance without the belt piece.

[DR_Mechano]

Sadly it's also the case that 90% of the stuff on the Issue 24 servers takes a LOT of work to transfer over to the Issue 25 servers, even if they can do it. I'm not sure why but I'm assuming a lot of stuff was rejigged and changed during the SCORE years. There's also the fact that the two server groups HATE each other (I mean the HC devs may say they don't but lets be honest here, there is a lot of beef between the two server dev teams) so any progress one makes is often kept well within the confines of that server group with the other having to essentially reverse engineer the process (I believe Homecoming is the first to offer the 'mirror' for Phantom Army as an option).

Edited January 26, 2020 by DR_Mechano

[DR_Mechano]

29 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

Didn't stop the live devs from giving it to the Talons and Knives of Vengeance without the belt piece.

 

Actually those pieces aren't the Sybil outfits, they're exclusive to the Talons faction and they too have surprisingly wonky issues. If you want I can show you what the Sybil chest piece looks like without the belt.

 

 

 

And here is the example without and with belt. Notice the large empty space where the belt should go.

Edited January 26, 2020 by DR_Mechano

[Sakura Tenshi]

Wait, I'm thinking of Banished Pantheon Shamans, not Talons.

 

[DR_Mechano]

9 minutes ago, Sakura Tenshi said:

Wait, I'm thinking of Banished Pantheon Shamans, not Talons.

 

Well what do you know, he's right!

So we can move that from the 'can't use' into the 'can use' pile. I mean if the Live devs were more than willing to use it without the belt, then players should be able to.

 

Nice catch Sakura.

[Sakura Tenshi]

I wouldn't call 'the live devs are willing to do it' as a greenlight, Mechano. It's pretty clear with as much passion as they pursued for the game in it's final days, they clearly were throwing stuff together in desperation. Need I remind you of the office buildings that got retextured with base assets in the Malta Arc? Especially the 'monastery' that was just hirano and miyuki textures and all the stairs removed.

 

[gamingglen]

(I just found out about this thread)

 

I have a request for the Talons belt, please.    I've used it for several costumes in Titan Icon and have not seen too much of an issue with it.  There's some clipping with some tops, but a few already accessible belts already clip in the same manner. And if you color it the same as the top, the clipping seems to disappear (its still there but hardly visible if at all).

 

I also changed the pencil skirt to have the split option and not seen an issue. But, all the female PCs I've seen wear next to nothing anyway and don't bother with the pencil skirts (except me who likes classy dames 😄 )   

[DR_Mechano]

As has been stated earlier in the thread the devs are focusing on other things at the moment. Mostly back end stuff and numbers tweaking so we're unlikely to get a costume pass for a while and we've basically been told they want to get things 'perfect' before they'll port them over, we don't know what that means (as you can see here between myself, VileTerror and the devs have a very differing opinion on what should and shouldn't be ported over but we've sort of put that to one side now since nothing is going to happen for now anyway) but it basically amounts to 'sit here and wait with our fingers crossed' pretty much.

 

As for the belt itself, it's actually one of the few fine talon pieces we're missing in my opinion though I suspect the reason they haven't ported it over yet is they want to mesh it with the loincloth that's currently sat in the 'shoulders' category to make it a drop down option to attach but I can neither confirm nor deny anything since I'm not a dev.

[Purrfekshawn]

On 1/26/2020 at 1:54 PM, Jimmy said:

I'm really not sure how I can be any clearer on this specific topic. I've given exact examples of why certain pieces will not be added.

@DR_Mechano just proved my point:

Many of the NPC parts are a mess. As for the ones that aren't - I refer you to my earlier post 🙂

l did some research work in Character Editor, while having NPC pieces enabled (costumes with these, sadly, cannot be uploaded to server because of serverside verifications) to discover which of pieces are NOT a mess and may be added to players approximately safely. Some of them may even be Key pieces for many themes, such as "Talons_Banshee" skirt style, which is the floor-long dress. Submitting all of that here on lnternational Woman's Day, in hopes that they might be enabled to be player-submittable relatively soonTM, so all woman's character might receive even extra level of Customization:

 

************************************************************

 

Male:

 

Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Hair -> Caesar
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Ear -> K9 Ear
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Arena Attendant Headset*
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Villain Revolutionary
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 2 -> Villain Revolutionary
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 2 -> Imperial Defense
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> Explorer
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> Bobby Cap
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> Pirate 0?
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> IDF 1
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> IDF 2
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> IDF 3
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> ... (others may fit)

 

Texture1: Upper Body -> Tight -> Chest -> Clockwork Dirty
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Shoulders -> Oni Pads
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Shoulders -> IDF
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Chest Detail -> Business Tie
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Chest Detail -> Security Tie
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Chest Detail -> Safety Vest
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Chest Detail -> Puffy Vest
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Chest Detail -> ... (more of them may seem fit)
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Gloves -> Claw 1
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Gloves -> Claw 2
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Gloves -> Imperial Defense
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Gloves -> Thunderhead
Texture1: Upper Body -> Tight -> Gloves -> Clockwork w/Pad (Dirty Texture)
Texture1: Upper Body -> Tight -> Gloves -> Clockwork (Dirty Texture)
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Belt -> Belt and Bandolier
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Belt -> Belt and Harness
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Belt -> Pirate
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Belt -> Praetoria PPD
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Belt -> IDF*
Geometry: Upper Body -> Baggy -> Chest -> Kid T-Shirt
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Chest -> Revolutionary
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Chest -> Security Guard
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Chest -> Flannel 1
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Chest -> Flannel 2
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Chest -> Flannel 2
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Sleeves -> Revolutionary
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Sleeves -> Security Sleeve 1
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Sleeves -> Security Sleeve 2
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Sleeves -> Security Sleeve 3
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Sleeves -> Flannel Sleeve Short
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Sleeves -> Flannel Sleeve Medium
Geometry: Upper Body -> Jacket (NOT JACKETS) -> Suit Jacket
Geometry: Upper Body -> Jackets -> Explorer
Geometry: Upper Body -> Jackets -> Military
Geometry: Upper Body -> Jackets -> PPD Shirt

 

Texture1: Lower Body -> Tight -> Pants -> Clockwork Dirty
Texture1: Lower Body -> Tight -> Pants -> Clockwork w/Pads Dirty
Geometry: Lower Body -> Tight -> Boots -> Imperial Scholar
Geometry: Lower Body -> Tight -> Boots -> Work Boot
Geometry: Lower Body -> Tight -> Boots -> Roman Sandal*
Geometry: Lower Body -> Tight -> Boots -> Equestrian Sandal
Geometry: Lower Body -> Tight -> Boots -> PPD Shell Jet Boots
Geometry: Lower Body -> Tight -> Boots -> Imperial Defense
Geometry: Lower Body -> Pants -> Pants -> Pirate
Geometry: Lower Body -> Pants -> Pants -> Security Guard Pants
Geometry: Lower Body -> Pants -> Pants -> Praetoria PPD Slacks
Geometry: Lower Body -> Pants -> Pants -> Overalls
Geometry: Lower Body -> Pants -> Pants -> Mastermind Military Pants (may as well come with Mastermind Military Jacket)
Geometry: Lower Body -> Kilts/Shorts -> Kilts/Shorts -> Roman Cingulum 2
Geometry: Lower Body -> Kilts/Shorts -> Kilts/Shorts -> Cyclops

Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> Clockwork
Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> Clockwork Dirty
Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> IDF
Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> RocketPack
Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> Raiders (?)

 

Female:

 

Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Hair -> Seer A
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Hair -> Seer B
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Hair -> Talons_03
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Hair -> Bella
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Resistance 01
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Cat Ears
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Arena Attendant Headset*
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Valkyrie
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Wedding Veil
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Veil Crown***
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Bella Googles
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Tielekku Crown
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> Witch Hat 3
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> LongBow Helmet
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Detail 1 -> Ear Muffs
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Detail 2 -> Omega

 

Texture1: Upper Body -> Tight -> Chest -> Althletic (more muscular pattern, similar to Barbarian Texture1)*
Texture1: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Chest -> Bikini (more muscular pattern, similar to Barbarian Texture1)*
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Shoulders -> Widow
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Chest Detail -> Borea Asian Thing
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Chest Detail -> Roman Sybil
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Chest Detail -> Roman Sybil 02
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Chest Detail -> Lamashtu
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Chest Detail -> Talons
Texture1: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Gloves -> Clockwork w/Pad (Dirty Texture)
Texture1: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Gloves -> Clockwork (Dirty Texture)
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Gloves -> Widow
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Belt -> IDF
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Belt -> Lamashtu
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Belt -> Roman Sybil
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tops With Skin -> Belt -> Hero_Corp
Geometry: Upper Body -> Shirts -> Shirt -> Talons
Texture1: Upper Body -> Shirts (or Tight) -> Chest -> Clockwork Dirty
Geometry: Upper Body -> Jacket (NOT JACKETS) -> Chest -> Suit Jacket

 

Geometry: Lower Body -> Bottoms with Skin -> Boots -> Imperial Scholar
Geometry: Lower Body -> Bottoms with Skin -> Boots -> Equestrian Sandal
Geometry: Lower Body -> Bottoms with Skin -> Boots -> Widow
Texture1: Lower Body -> Bottoms -> Bottom -> Clockwork Dirty
Texture1: Lower Body -> Bottoms -> Bottom -> Clockwork w/Pads Dirty
Geometry: Lower Body -> Skirts/Shorts -> Skirt/Short -> Talons_Banshee***
Geometry: Lower Body -> Skirts/Shorts -> Skirt/Short -> Cabal
Geometry: Lower Body -> Skirts/Shorts -> Skirt/Short -> Circle of Thorns Dev 1
Texture1: Lower Body -> Pants -> Pants -> Fortune Teller
Texture1: Lower Body -> Pants -> Pants -> Fortune Teller 2

Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> Clockwork
Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> Clockwork Dirty
Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> Raiders (?)

 

Huge:

 

Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Halo
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 1 -> Arena Attendant Headset*
Geometry: Head -> Standard -> Detail 2 -> Marauder Beard
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> IDF 1
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Hat -> IDF 2
Geometry: Head -> Hats -> Detail 1 -> IDF 1

 

Texture1: Upper Body -> Tight -> Chest -> Clockwork Dirty
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Shoulders -> IDF
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Chest Detail -> IDF
Texture1: Upper Body -> Tight -> Gloves -> Clockwork (dirty pattern)
Texture1: Upper Body -> Tight -> Gloves -> Clockwork w/Pad (dirty pattern)
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Gloves -> Brawler
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Gloves -> Imperial Defense
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Belt -> LongBow Belt
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Belt -> Minotaur Belt
Geometry: Upper Body -> Tight -> Belt -> IDF
Geometry: Upper Body -> Jacket (NOT JACKETS) -> Suit Jacket
Geometry: Upper Body -> Robes -> Sleeves -> McCrane
Geometry: Upper Body -> Jackets -> Sleeves -> Captain Long

 

Texture1: Lower Body -> Tight -> Pants -> Clockwork Dirty
Texture1: Lower Body -> Tight -> Pants -> Clockwork w/Pads Dirty
Geometry: Lower Body -> Tight -> Boots -> Imperial Scholar
Geometry: Lower Body -> Tight -> Boots -> Imperial Defense
Geometry: Lower Body -> Pants -> Pants -> Pirate
Geometry: Lower Body -> Pants -> Pants -> Security Guard Pants
Geometry: Lower Body -> Pants -> Pants -> Mastermind Military Pants

Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> Clockwork
Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> Clockwork Dirty
Geometry: Back Detail -> Back Packs -> Raiders (?)
 

************************************************************

 

Well, that seems to be it... Ones those have marks "*", and a fortiori "***" are the ones l want to receive personally, in order to make well-deserved level of Customization for my own characters, including Mah Main, or alts or even AE enemies (Emulating Arena Attendant Headset with Ear Caps and Cyborg Detail 2 doesn't look well, and non-romal sandals for past enemies too bulky)... l feel mah characters/enemies unfinished w/out these pieces.

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by Purrfekshawn

[SweetAnubis]

i know id love to use the Mu outfit pieces for a concept character i have!

[Jotun]

I just want the wind up key from the clockwork goons but i really doubt its a useable piece and probably tied to their model.

[Player2]

Is there any chance that we'll ever be able to have the AE contact dummies as costume pieces?