An idea for a Confront fix...

[Wavicle]

You got me.  I can't think of a fix for Confront that isn't either pointless, overpowered, or too radical a change to the power to make sense. Anybody have any ideas?

[MunkiLord]

My preference would be to delete the power from the game and give Scrappers another attack or some sort of mitigation power.

[Haijinx]

Is it broken?

[Redlynne]

2 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

You got me.  I can't think of a fix for Confront that isn't either pointless, overpowered, or too radical a change to the power to make sense. Anybody have any ideas?

Single Target Taunts ... add -100 ToHit Debuff for 3 seconds, making "next attack(s)" (in the next 3 seconds) extremely likely to miss.

AoE Taunts ... add -100 ToHit Debuff for 2 seconds, making "next attack(s)" (in the next 2 seconds) extremely likely to miss.

 

Add Accurate ToHitDebuff as well as ToHitDebuff enhancements and sets available to Taunt powers.

 

 

 

Basic idea being that your Confront/Taunt use makes your $Target(s) overcompensate and "waste" an attack (or two...) on you in return.

I mean ... you're doing this ... ... to make them want to hit you (and miss!) ...

[Razor Cure]

I always thought COnfront needed an extra effect. It is basically never taken, and a single target taunt is not that useful. Red's above suggestions are pretty cool, maybe even a small self +damage, as you taunt a target and psyche yourself up for a fight.

[VileTerror]

It would be an absolute pain in the ass, and I don't know if the code could even possibly allow it, but I figure that something like  . . . 

 

Confront places a +1% or +2% chance to score a Critical on your target, which can stack with itself.  This wouldn't be a big help for Minions or other weak enemies who get blown away with ease, but it would allow the Scrapper to risk increased Threat from an Archvillain or Monster in favour of increasing their odds of Crit'ing over time. 

[Galaxy Brain]

It should be possible with the enhancement for crit chance, as well as things like Eagles Claw boosting crit chance for a bit

[Redlynne]

1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

It should be possible with the enhancement for crit chance, as well as things like Eagles Claw boosting crit chance for a bit

Those are things that buff self ... not debuff $Target.

[biostem]

What if it also did psionic & fire damage to reflect the sick burn you inflicted upon your target's ego?  😉

Edited January 26, 2020 by biostem

[Wavicle]

 The problem is I don't think Scrappers  actually need any improvement AT wide either offensively or defensively. Sure, specific sets need looking at, but I don't see what you could add to Confront that would be useful but not overpowered.

[Redlynne]

13 minutes ago, biostem said:

What if it also did psionic & fire damage to reflect the sick burn you inflicted upon your target's ego?  😉

That's what the Perfect Zinger proc is for ...

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, Redlynne said:

Those are things that buff self ... not debuff $Target.

While true, you could have those powers buff you when they trigger

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

While true, you could have those powers buff you when they trigger

What if it placed a debuff on the target, which pulsed every few seconds and granted you a bonus to crit chance?

[Wavicle]

I think it is very difficult to make a case that Scrappers need ANY improvement either offensively or defensively.

Therefore, I think any change to Confront needs to only make it better at what it is really already about: Aiding a teammate.

 

What if Confront was changed to Intervene: You cast it on an ALLY and it gives you their threat for a few seconds?

[VileTerror]

That sounds more like a Tanker thing to me.  Or something for a new Archetype.

I really think "Confront" should reinforce the Scrapper's identity as the Duelist.  The Archetype who goes toe-to-toe with a big-bad.  Honestly, of all the Archetypes, I see Scrapper as the one who is -least- invested in the team.

[Replacement]

Remember: high end scrapper builds are finely tuned beasts. Taking Confront means not taking something else. This is called an Opportunity Cost. 

 

I would argue this impacts scrapper more than any other AT (though my reasoning gets flimsy when compared to Brute and Tanker).  Therefore, I actually think a buff to Confront is warranted. 

 

My suggestion are indirect though

• Give it an additional shorter duration high taunt mag, or some sort of forcible target switch. Reason: be realistic. A single target taunt on a 75% resist class isn't going to upset the meta. Regen v Hami days are over. So this will just give Scrappers a way to rescue low health brutes and tankers.
• Spawn 1-2 enemy pseudopets on top of you. They are invisible and untargetable, but any auto-hit auras will affect them. Reason: this is less so a power boost than a power smoother. This would have the effect of enhancing any auras that scale with nearby enemies (example: Against all odds would now register 1-2 extra targets), which feeds into the idea of using Confront for dueling.
• A simple +crit rate buff would be a straight buff, where I've veered my other suggestions towards utility, but the opportunity cost means it would probably be fine.

[Redlynne]

3 minutes ago, Replacement said:

• A simple +crit rate buff would be a straight buff, where I've veered my other suggestions towards utility, but the opportunity cost means it would probably be fine.

A crit rate buff would only "work" for archetypes that do critical hits (which isn't all of them if looking at Taunts more broadly than just for Scrappers and including the Presence Pool into the bargain as an overall update for Taunt powers).

 

A broader (and perhaps simpler?) solution would be to port over the "Double Hit" mechanic used in Incarnate slotting.  Simply key in a short duration (1 second duration?) "Double Hit" enabler on the next attack used after a Taunt ... so you have to "combo" Taunt with something else (anything else) to take advantage of the Taunt for greatest effect.  The notion that I'm reaching for here is broadly similar to the temporary buff that Eagle's Claw in Martial Arts gives to the next attack(s) after Eagle's Claw ... except using the "Double Hit" functionality instead of a crit chance modifier.  That way, the update could be applied to ALL Taunt powers, including the Presence Pool versions, rather than being something archetype specific.

[Replacement]

7 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

A crit rate buff would only "work" for archetypes that do critical hits (which isn't all of them if looking at Taunts more broadly than just for Scrappers and including the Presence Pool into the bargain as an overall update for Taunt powers).

 

A broader (and perhaps simpler?) solution would be to port over the "Double Hit" mechanic used in Incarnate slotting.  Simply key in a short duration (1 second duration?) "Double Hit" enabler on the next attack used after a Taunt ... so you have to "combo" Taunt with something else (anything else) to take advantage of the Taunt for greatest effect.  The notion that I'm reaching for here is broadly similar to the temporary buff that Eagle's Claw in Martial Arts gives to the next attack(s) after Eagle's Claw ... except using the "Double Hit" functionality instead of a crit chance modifier.  That way, the update could be applied to ALL Taunt powers, including the Presence Pool versions, rather than being something archetype specific.

While Presence pool could use its own buffs, I was specifically looking at Scrapper Confront (and clones -- note that several sets that came over from Tankers/Brutes still have Taunt, and those should either be swapped out to Confront or simply not receive any buffs).  At this time, I am firmly against any buffs to Taunt (the power).

Edited January 26, 2020 by Replacement

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

At this time, I am firmly against any buffs to Taunt (the power).

So ... buffs for ME, but not for THEE ...?

[Wavicle]

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

 

• Give it an additional shorter duration high taunt mag, or some sort of forcible target switch. Reason: be realistic. A single target taunt on a 75% resist class isn't going to upset the meta. Regen v Hami days are over. So this will just give Scrappers a way to rescue low health brutes and tankers.

This is the only suggestion so far that seems appropriate to me.

Edited January 26, 2020 by sacredlunatic

[VileTerror]

I think that the reasoning is from the fact that Confront is nearly never touched under just about any circumstances, while Taunt is used by plenty of Brutes and Tankers to do exactly what it's meant to.
Taunt is fine where it is.  It gets used.
Confront is presently a "no-brainer skippable" Power for all Scrappers.

[Galaxy Brain]

1 hour ago, VileTerror said:

I think that the reasoning is from the fact that Confront is nearly never touched under just about any circumstances, while Taunt is used by plenty of Brutes and Tankers to do exactly what it's meant to.
Taunt is fine where it is.  It gets used.
Confront is presently a "no-brainer skippable" Power for all Scrappers.

This @Redlynne

[macskull]

Don't forget that there's a 75% range debuff on the target affected by Confront. Not as useful as the AoE version of the same that Tankers and Brutes get, but it's still something.

[Call Me Awesome]

I personally like the idea of a short duration -to hit debuff added to it; with the exact numbers needing to be determined.  I'm a big believer that every power in a set should have a definite reason for you to include it in your build; if the power serves little purpose and is an easy choice to discard then it needs to be adjusted.  

 

Any power choice should be a valid choice, nothing should automatically be skippable.  It should be a definite sacrifice to skip something to make room to take something else.

[Wavicle]

@Call Me Awesome
Naturally I agree with that philosophy but that's the problem.  Scrappers have NO AT wide issue or hole that needs filling.  Any improvement to Confront without some kind of corresponding penalty is going to a straight up buff.  The fact that Confront is stupid and useless does not by itself justify buffing Scrappers.

Would anyone be willing to have some aspect of Scrappers nerfed in order to have an actually useful power instead of Confront?  My bet is no.

Any change to confront that improves Survivability or Offense is a straight up buff that the AT overall does not need.

Again, I agree that there should be a reason to take every power in every set.  There are a lot of powers that are not worth taking and Confront is one of them.  But justifying the claim that Scrappers need a buff as a whole AT, not just individual sets, is a tall order.