An idea for a Confront fix...

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

Just now, Replacement said:

I'd settle for just a temp speed buff to player as something of a gap-closer helper.

 

That is simply perfect. Melee centric characters always need gap closers in games with melee/ranged options. One of Champion Onlines few good aspects was the abundance of gap closer power options.

 

Giving every scrapper primary a closer coupled with a strong immobilization aspect would be likely the most universal to every power set option they could go with that most melee players would appreciate. They could even poor man it by recycling one of the current closer power animations and just give it dmg effects based on the flavor of the power set.

[Wavicle]

Better still, change Confront in almost every set that gets it.  Make them all into gap closer powers, but make them all different kinds of gap closers.

One could teleport your target, one could teleport you, one could grant you speed, one could immobilize your opponent, etc, etc.

[Haijinx]

im /jranger on anything that makes the sword sets less cool looking 

 

Just sayin

[Replacement]

5 hours ago, sacredlunatic said:

Better still, change Confront in almost every set that gets it.  Make them all into gap closer powers, but make them all different kinds of gap closers.

One could teleport your target, one could teleport you, one could grant you speed, one could immobilize your opponent, etc, etc.

I would be absolutely happy with this, but it would need to come with one significant change:

Buff Provoke (presence taunt) to be at least as good as current Confront. In fact, slightly better to make up for the fact that players can no longer take both.

That means no accuracy check, -75% range debuff, low cooldown, and the higher of the 2 mags (I'd go even higher, since I stand by my belief that this should be capable of rescuing Tankers).

 

All of that should at least make the inevitable "cottage tears" a little more manageable.

 

I really do think we're in an era where Scrappers mostly exist as a thematic choice, or perhaps a vehement way to convey to a party that you don't tank. The notion of trading Confronts out for gap-closers both addresses the new reality that you aren't a Hami Tank, and returns you to the king of the "aggression" hill, giving you some distinction from your other "why are there 4 of us" melee ATs.

 

Edit: @Haijinxif Provoke had some set-awareness logic added in so that it could broadsword Confront if you're a Broadsword too , etc... You'd have your cake and eat it too.

Edited February 2, 2020 by Replacement

[honoroit]

Having played savage melee, /shield, elec melee (and liking savage's best), a gap closer for melee characters is game changing. You can keep up with ranged aoe spams. 

I have no idea why you'd want confront.

 

If it was an aoe taunt, OK, but single target (even with a range drop), it's so situational as to be rendered useless.

 

As with most, I've never taken it. Total junk power as is, a gap in a primary set. 

[Wavicle]

5 hours ago, Haijinx said:

im /jranger on anything that makes the sword sets less cool looking 

 

Just sayin

Oh we're keeping the animations.

[ninja surprise]

On 1/26/2020 at 2:27 PM, macskull said:

Don't forget that there's a 75% range debuff on the target affected by Confront. Not as useful as the AoE version of the same that Tankers and Brutes get, but it's still something.

How about take this and add -Fly so a scrapper can confront a flyer and it'll come down and let itself get punched.

[EmmySky]

Several people were called out for posting on the new thread instead of this old one so I searched out this old one to post here.  Apparently this is a conversation thread and the other is a proposal thread.  Always wanna make sure I post in the proper place! 😁

 

I don't think Confront is broken and therefore doesn't need fixing.  Just because its a seldom chosen power doesnt mean its worthless.

 

Go ahead and make it the uberest of all uber powers where it instantly kills spawns by the boatload and next week you will see a different power at the bottom of the most taken list.  Go ahead and fix that one, too.  Then fix the one that inevitably will take its place, as well.  There will always be a power at the bottom of the list. 

 

Personally I like a single target pull on my scrapper so they don't always have to jump into the midst of danger.  There are many reasons to take it and there are many reasons to not take it.  Having that option is a benefit.  

 

I agree that things that are broken should be looked at for fixes, I just don't agree that Confront is broken.

 

Thank you for your time and happy hunting!

[Menelruin]

How about a massive debuff to the target's RANGE, so they have no choice but to get in your face to attack you?

[siolfir]

26 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

How about a massive debuff to the target's RANGE, so they have no choice but to get in your face to attack you?

So, your vote is for no change then?

 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

2 hours ago, EmmySky said:

Several people were called out for posting on the new thread instead of this old one so I searched out this old one to post here.  Apparently this is a conversation thread and the other is a proposal thread.  Always wanna make sure I post in the proper place! 😁

 

I don't think Confront is broken and therefore doesn't need fixing.  Just because its a seldom chosen power doesnt mean its worthless.

 

Go ahead and make it the uberest of all uber powers where it instantly kills spawns by the boatload and next week you will see a different power at the bottom of the most taken list.  Go ahead and fix that one, too.  Then fix the one that inevitably will take its place, as well.  There will always be a power at the bottom of the list. 

 

Personally I like a single target pull on my scrapper so they don't always have to jump into the midst of danger.  There are many reasons to take it and there are many reasons to not take it.  Having that option is a benefit.  

 

I agree that things that are broken should be looked at for fixes, I just don't agree that Confront is broken.

 

Thank you for your time and happy hunting!

First of all its not merely a seldom chosen power. %wise its practically a never taken power, like so never taken no other power in the history of seldom used powers even begins to rival it.

 

Thanks for the hyperbolic fix suggestion. We have been very careful in our discussion on possible changes to even if going against the cottage rule, try to avoid going against the spirit  and even name of the power. When I hear the word confront, I myself do indeed picture rushing up into someones face because they have done something wrong and deserving of confrontation.

 

We also have been trying to come up with something fresh and different for scrappers while finding a way to make use of existing mechanics. Many games, including CoHs special little sibling champions, make use of gap closer moves for their melee to have a chance to compete with ranged, this is especially true in pvp, and Ive seen no few PvPers QQing about the dominance of kiting ranged builds in HCs pvp scene. Many of these games gap closers come with a form of rooting or speed debuffing to make it very hard to escape a melee once they are on you.

 

Your agreeing or not about it needing a change is frankly way way too late. The Devs themselves have taken notice of the player use stats and fully plotting on changing it, hence threads like this discussing possible changes.

 

You need to accept that, a change is coming, the question is what shape that change will take.

[Menelruin]

3 hours ago, siolfir said:

So, your vote is for no change then?

 

I wasn't aware it also debuffed mob range; In my experience with tanks at least, Provoke will make things shoot me, but doesn't necessarily require them to get point-blank to do so.

[siolfir]

1 hour ago, Menelruin said:

I wasn't aware it also debuffed mob range; In my experience with tanks at least, Provoke will make things shoot me, but doesn't necessarily require them to get point-blank to do so.

Taunt for Brutes and the Scrapper version of Confront have -75% range in addition to the taunt effect. Taunt for Tankers was recently changed to make their version have -100% range. I don't remember off the top of my head and I'm not in a position to check, but I think that the Kheldian Dwarf Antagonize powers also have the -75% range. The Widow version of Confront does not include any -range, nor does the pool power Provoke.

 

Like all resistable debuffs, this is resisted by the purple patch, making it more or less effective based on relative levels. There was some debate in the Tanker feedback threads when the value for Tankers was increased about whether or not mobs have a -range cap: Paragonwiki lists it as 25%, so the assumption was the make it more effective against higher level targets, but Captain Powerhouse replied stating that there's nothing he could find limiting it to that, while allowing that something might be buried in the code somewhere outside of the areas that he checked.

[Leogunner]

I've heard people complain that mobs run away from their Scrappers and when they started playing Tanker, they marveled at how mobs obediently stayed in place. 

 

Since no one suggested it, I propose adding a layer to confront. Using it grants the Scrapper a slight boost in threat and gives all primary attacks a taunt proc for the next 15 sec. So it's like having Brute punch voke... But temporary. It also makes those taunt auras slightly more potent since your threat is raised. 

 

The other idea I had was adding a -res to mez (only immob, stun, hold, fear and confuse) which basically increases the duration a target is mezzed. 

 

The other ideas, while cool sounding, are rather radical to be considered (or some of them, at least). 

[Leogunner]

On 2/2/2020 at 9:52 AM, honoroit said:

 

 

This is best duplicated by using Super Speed colored blue. 

[Wavicle]

3 hours ago, Leogunner said:

I've heard people complain that mobs run away from their Scrappers and when they started playing Tanker, they marveled at how mobs obediently stayed in place. 

 

Since no one suggested it, I propose adding a layer to confront. Using it grants the Scrapper a slight boost in threat and gives all primary attacks a taunt proc for the next 15 sec. So it's like having Brute punch voke... But temporary. It also makes those taunt auras slightly more potent since your threat is raised. 

 

The other idea I had was adding a -res to mez (only immob, stun, hold, fear and confuse) which basically increases the duration a target is mezzed. 

 

The other ideas, while cool sounding, are rather radical to be considered (or some of them, at least). 

The solution, whatever it is, has to help scrappers do what they do best.

 

A gap closer does that.

 

Further blurring the lines between scrappers and brutes by giving scrappers more taunting ability does not.

 

 People are not going to take it if it’s just a taunt. Scrappers don’t need taunt. 

[Leogunner]

10 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

The solution, whatever it is, has to help scrappers do what they do best.

 

A gap closer does that.

 

Further blurring the lines between scrappers and brutes by giving scrappers more taunting ability does not.

 

 People are not going to take it if it’s just a taunt. Scrappers don’t need taunt. 

I think you're comparing this game with other MMOs with regards to gap closers. Are they neat? Yes! Needed? We have super speed, teleport, flight and super jump along with a plethora of other buffs that would make a gap closer 's actual utility moot. In the time it takes to target and click the gap closer (if it's recharged) you could just press W and SPACE. 

 

Also, the solution I pointed to does help with actual issues brought up by multiple melee type players: runners. 

 

So which is "the solution"? The one aimed to fix a grievance by the community? Or your assumed "doing what Scrappers do best" proposition? 

 

As for blurring the lines between Scrappers and brutes: too late. If a Scrapper actually picked Confront, maybe they actually want to get some mileage out of taunt. I'm just saying they should too. 

Edited February 6, 2020 by Leogunner

[SwitchFade]

17 minutes ago, sacredlunatic said:

The solution, whatever it is, has to help scrappers do what they do best.

 

A gap closer does that.

 

Further blurring the lines between scrappers and brutes by giving scrappers more taunting ability does not.

 

 People are not going to take it if it’s just a taunt. Scrappers don’t need taunt. 

That's highly controversial at best. Many disagree with you and such statements are dangerous. I get you feel that way, but feelings aren't facts and opinions aren't proof. Taunting ability on scraps and the blurring you speak of is highly subjective. Your asertation that no one will take a better confront aggro tool is false, because I would take it.

 

Your assumption that scrappers don't need taunt is dubious and many have offered differing views and proof. Further, your statement is invalidated by the ongoing requests for scrap aggro auras taunts. Clearly, it's desired.

 

A gap closer is something you want, but by no means THE solution to the issue of under utilized confront. To be succinct, you want scrapper burst of speed and others want confront.

 

You are summarily dismissing many views, which could be counter productive. Perhaps you should be amenable to compromise?

 

And for posterities sake, scrapper teleport is not an idea I will vote Yes for. No vote.

Edited February 6, 2020 by SwitchFade

[siolfir]

3 hours ago, Leogunner said:

This is best duplicated by using Super Speed colored blue. 

Well, as long as you haven't attacked recently - travel suppression is why I always end up with Combat Jumping on my builds. Having a pocket Kin with Speed Boost would do it, though.

[BrandX]

I just need to have it last longer when I use mine.

 

I feel I have to reapply it more often than I do Taunt itself.