Announcement regarding the daily Hamidon raids

[Veracor]

I would like to make an announcement about the recent Hamidon raid ethic that's been going on lately.  This applies to the daily raids Elmyder and I run at 7pm and 10pm EST:

 

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(1) The leecher hunt is getting a little too extreme.  I can understand the vigilance against multiboxers as almost every multibox leecher has been hostile and dishonest, but don't be so quick to assume someone 30 seconds late to the launch is a leecher.  People AFK for valid reasons, or they thought they had enough time to grab a drink, or left to use the bathroom, or whatnot.  If you see someone leeching or suspect them of it, please just point it out to me in a tell instead of calling them out publicly.

 

(2) While I do appreciate the enthusiasm that some people have about incanning the league to the Monster walls, it is unprofessional to teleport directly into the Monsters.  There are legitimate reasons such as Fulcrim Shift, but such buffs are only effective if people aren't pancaked.  Please just incan to an empty space near the Monster walls from now on, and it may also help to wait until I call for heading to the Monster wall so that people can get their defenses ready.

 

(3) Do not teleport the league into Hamidon under any circumstance.  Regardless of the raid leader's personal thoughts on the quality of his league's behavior, or the potential wagers he might be having on the Who Will Die? signature story arc, teleporting people into Hamidon is objectively sabotaging the raid.  I don't care what your opinion is on keeping the teleport prompt enabled or how dying doesn't matter in this game, just don't do it.

 

(4) Please dial back all the recent inappropriate broadcast/league chatter.  Most people (including myself) are just here to raid, not to hear base insults, macro spam, sexual innuendo, politics, or borderline racist comments.  If you must say something bad about the raid's performance, people not reading instructions, or the ever-present Brutes/Scrappers attempting to solo Mitos, be creative and at least try to spin your comment in an uplifting and satirical way.

 

(5) Raid leaders are just volunteer players.  People being ugly to each other makes raids less welcoming and just causes more issues for us to deal with.  If you have grievances with a specific player on the league and they did not explicitly break the code of conduct, please just put them on ignore instead of continuing a public vendetta with them.

 

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Please remember that the goal is not to have the smoothest and most efficient raid possible, but rather to foster and maintain a positive environment for everyone, both new and old.  Thank you for your consideration and I'll see you all at 10pm EST!

Edited February 24, 2020 by Veracor

[Katharos]

Thinking about it, the thing is that there's ten to twenty or so new names we see in a Hamidon raid in any given day. That means there's about thirty people we see day in, day out. Hamidon might only last an hour and a half here and there, but when we do it twice a day every day for weeks and months, we're cumulatively spending dozens of hours together, building a (hostile) relationship.

When I run a Dr Q, it usually takes less than two hours. Imagine spending an entire Dr Q making snide comments about your teammates. That's two days of Hamidon raids. Except the Hamidon raids are worse because it's not seven other people we're taking shots at, it's more like fifteen, and there's an audience of people who don't have the context to know why half the league hates the other half and vice versa. They can only see the naked hostility. They must wonder to themselves, "When I make a mistake, am I going to be the next on the chopping block? Which side am I going to be on in this war?"

Which is sad. As veterans, we don't have to like each other, but we do owe our patience and a welcoming learning environment to the people who are here to learn. Most of us weren't in the first wave of itrial exploration/discovery runs, learning the mechanics and such, which means we had to learn it from veterans who predated us. Who did us the favour of being patient and teaching us. I sure hope all of us keep playing the game as long as it's running, but that's a rare thing, and more likely the people who learn from us will take our place one day. In light of that, the least we can do for the people who came before us and the people who will come after us is to be decent to each other for thirty minutes at a time.

(And I admit, I'm guilty of the bickering myself. But I will try to be better.)

Edited February 25, 2020 by Katharos
clarity pass

[ROBOKiTTY]

I endorse this message for weekend Abyss Hamidon raids~

[r0y]

I left the last raid (yesterday evening) when we got incan'd into the monster wall, followed by incan into hami.  It was late for me and I was not really into multiple deaths and some childlike snickering.  Sorry I just bailed, but that was probably best before I said something stupid.

 

It cannot be easy "herding cats" to form raids so often, I get that.  We seem to develop a level of familiarity that encourages people to be more "edgy" with one another (for whatever reason).  I think that's a slippery slope for some, myself included.

 

Thanks for posting this; I only hope the potential griefers and/or less civilized players read it.

 

[Macullen]

Although I now realize I'm an idiot, I had thought that the taunters each grabbed a yellow mito and engaged it to keep agro (like some other games we will not mention) It was only this weekend that I realized (Thank you Keen) I was doing it wrong. And I watch for directions from the leaders, but most of the other chat goes by way too fast. Thanks for the mention of the incans. Although I did get a badge from an incsn death at the monster wall.

[Ruin Mage]

As one of the people who incan into the wall, while I have differing opinion on death in CoH I do realize my glee at death of others needs to be toned down. As does my language and attitude towards other players.

[Blushield]

Well said. Many of us appreciate the leadership it takes to run a Hami Raid (or any large group activity). As a server, we should not make that any harder than it already is.

[Seamless]

I'm one of those people who makes things worse the more I try to fix them, so I'll attempt to simplify.  After considering information I was given in response to my original comment posted in this space, my opinion has changed so I'm removing it from here.  However, most of the original post is quoted down below for reference.  I no longer feel the way I did originally, but what's said can not be unsaid.

 

I'll be over there with a muscle relaxer and a glass of warm peppermint tea.

 

Happy raiding one and all.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Seamless

[Ruin Mage]

38 minutes ago, Seamless said:

someone's power trip.

Please don't demean either one of the leaders like this, Seamless. You've ignored some of the asks of Veracor by furthering vitriol.

being teleported to death

That's been stopped and asked to stopped.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Shadeknight

[LorannaPyrel]

3 hours ago, Macullen said:

Although I now realize I'm an idiot, I had thought that the taunters each grabbed a yellow mito and engaged it to keep agro (like some other games we will not mention) It was only this weekend that I realized (Thank you Keen) I was doing it wrong. And I watch for directions from the leaders, but most of the other chat goes by way too fast. Thanks for the mention of the incans. Although I did get a badge from an incsn death at the monster wall.

You're not doing it wrong; that is an effective way of dealing with the yellows, so long as there are enough taunters to go around. I myself invariably home in on a single yellow, grabbing another one or two if there's only two or three of us, or if I see that nobody is covering the mitos next to me. So long as the yellows are aimed at us taunters, and not at the other teams, then it all works out ^_^ But, that's a tactic I use because I've done a number of Hami raids before, and trust my knowledge of the raid's mechanics to guide me.

 

The instruction to taunt clockwise, now, is a general rule that will work whether there's one taunter or ten, and doesn't require a new player to worry about anything beyond "go round clockwise, taunt yellows".  So it's a good rule for the raid leaders to offer us, and even experienced taunters who like to follow their "own" rules ought to keep it in mind.

 

Lastly, thanks Veracor for making this topic. I know I've been getting a bit snippy; I'll watch myself from here on. Looking forward to many long years of jello fights ^_^

 

- Lorna

[Seamless]

10 hours ago, Shadeknight said:

Please don't demean either one of the leaders like this, Seamless. You've ignored some of the asks of Veracor by furthering vitriol.
 

 

That's been stopped and asked to stopped.

I was ticked off for getting kicked as a result of unfortunate events, and I felt I needed to get it off my chest.  That was wrong, and I have the utmost respect for Veracor.  I apologize for outbursts in here at least.

Edited February 25, 2020 by Seamless

[Elmyder]

50 minutes ago, Seamless said:

I was on the league.  I got teleported and killed instantly on my fresh new lvl 50 with few enhancements.  I took the trip to the hospital and went afk for about two minutes to vent my disappointment someplace else than in the league chat.  I came back to find I had been kicked but I only realized that after we had defeated hamidon.  It was the last run of the night, so I left the zone after the buds were cleared. 

 

Once I got to Atlas, I got a private tell from the raid leader telling me "A raid leader has a way of noticing what you're doing" or something to that affect.  I waved my right to tell express my true feeling at the time and chose instead to ask what they think I did wrong.  Ultimately, I was kicked because I was too far away from the monsters (because I died and went to the hospital) and because others have been leeching xp from the league while AFK in the past.  Another reason I was kicked was that I didn't attack the mitos until after the yellows were gone.  That's because I had a new level 50 with hardly any enhancements and no EoEs (because someone teleported me into a group of monsters).  "You should have asked for EoEs."  That's true.  I'd have found out that much sooner that I was no longer on the league.  I really wouldn't have wanted to ask for EoEs while we (yes "we") were already fighting.

 

I don't need to be on a league if it frees me from being teleported to death or subjected to someone's power trip.  Yet I'm sure I'll be branded as a dissident for not being on the league.  So be it.  I'll still help out as I have been doing all these months.

 

Hi, I'm the raid leader you're talking about.

 

First of all, I would appreciate it if you would refrain from publicizing issues you have with me without further discussing them with me first. But since you have already gone public with it, I would like to clear up some false information:

 

You were kicked halfway through the second mito phase of the first hami because I observed you had not participated up to this point. This is something Veracor and I have unfortunately had to begin doing as a result of some people who would afk entire raids repeatedly. Believe me, we do not like doing this. When I first began leading raids, I would get tells from many people complaining about others they observe leeching and multiboxing, since they rightly saw it as unfair. Eventually, it became so pervasive, we had to address it. In any case, you were kicked long after the monsters. In fact, I have never kicked someone for not participating in the monster hunt.

 

However, I do not like to assume the worst in people, and I understand people may afk for valid reasons, misunderstand instructions, etc. Therefore, if I see an issue or feel the need to kick someone for any reason, I will send them a tell about it so we have a chance to clear up the situation. (Take a moment now to think about how many tells this must add up to over the last few months.)

With that said, I sent you a tell and told you what I observed. You explained that you sat outside of hami because you lacked EoEs. In response, I offered to give you EoEs during any future raids if you needed them. There was no further communication, and I made no accusations, arguments, or rude remarks. (I just reviewed my logs of our conversation, btw.)

I have handled every interaction with raiders I felt the need the message more or less like this, including ones who were repeatedly hostile to me in tells. Furthermore, I have never publicly accused anyone of anything. So I will reiterate that I would appreciate it if you would extend me the same courtesy and refrain from making any posts like this in the future.

[Seamless]

During the tells after the raid, I withheld the anger at being kicked.  That is why the conversation ended quickly.  However, in my view, I thought I had proven myself over the many months of being very active, enough that I could try to handle a real life situation without being judged for my lack of participation.  My anger grew, and at my age, I'm ashamed to admit that.  After my faux pas in this thread, I feel a lot better, but I can agree now that I handled things poorly here.

 

Clearly I wasn't able to keep up with most of the league the way I usually would.  I understand that you did what you felt was necessary.  I honestly don't know all the issues regarding AFK leechers.  I'm usually too busy fighting along with the rest to notice, until I have to help find stray buds somewhere on the map.

 

In the spirit of peace and kinship, I will respect your request to refrain from making any further negative posts of regarding this issue.  Furthermore, if I feel I have to deal with a real world surprise in the future, I'll just remove myself from the league and hover above the raid so that any bud that teleports to me will fall conveniently to where the Hamidon once stood.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Seamless
Forever swimming in typos

[Keen]

I'm guilty of some bad stuff myself (like encouraging the incans) and I'll try to do better.

 

Thanks for making this topic Veracor. Hamidon Raids for me are the main event in this game, not really for rewards anymore but for the people. I'll do them as long as people are cool. So, please be cool, people.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Keen

[wasuber]

Thanks OP (Vericool) also you cool cat herders, you know who you are, I appreciate what you do on a daily basis, what I could probably never do even though I want to! The good and the bad, I believe the fun had always outweighed anything negative, even a good old fashioned "noob friend figures out TP friend in Atlas park at 3000 feet vertical is cool" 🙂

 

So many of you guys are so dedicated to doing this daily, I think everyone who reads your post Veri coool, Shade guy, Elmyder, Robo, Coppertone Gurl, Steve guy probably, on and on will agree that without a doubt, this experience you get on Everlasting whether it be Ham-jello or iTrials, SF's TF's whatever it may be is CoH classery at it's finest! 

 

I know this was meant to be serious post but I'm not usually very serious so forgive me!

 

 

May the fairy dance parties rock! 

And the Keen sight & smash always ring true 🙂

 

@Arctick

 

peace!!

[hamilcar]

I enjoy the raids. I am especially thankful to anyone that takes a leadership role, it must be difficult.  I don't show up because I need the raids, the influence, the threads, etc. (though they are a nice bonus)  I show up for the camaraderie. I like the dancing, and the joking, and the occasional trivia that emerges. I like to enjoy a light-hearted raid and work to contribute to that as well as killing Hamidon.  Online games are unique in that they provide a solitary and social environment all at once.   We create the community we want to have.  If you're in a bad mood or don't feel like you can participate than skip a night or two. This is a game, it's not your job, and it's certainly not your life.  Trust me, if you make sure others are enjoying themselves, you will too.  This isn't a zero-sum-game, everyone can win and if you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong.

 

Orchid Knight

[Seamless]

3 hours ago, hamilcar said:

...and if you're not having fun, you're doing it wrong.

 

Orchid Knight

Well said.  In my hastened yet drowsy race toward finishing a certain scientific dominator, I forgot that, and let one bad event cause a chain reaction in my own space.  I'm sorry I brought that here.

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by Seamless

[RoboKnight]

I'm just glad that common sense finally won. No one likes being called a 'fucking idiot' & being taunted/ridiculed because someone has a little power trip & thinks that making fun of someone for complaining about dying is funny. You know who you are & I will never forgive & forget you for of the crap you've pulled.

Edited February 25, 2020 by RoboKnight

[Starforge]

3 hours ago, RoboKnight said:

I'm just glad that common sense finally won. No one likes being called a 'fucking idiot' & being taunted/ridiculed because someone has a little power trip & thinks that making fun of someone for complaining about dying is funny. You know who you are & I will never forgive & forget you for of the crap you've pulled.

Seems a bit much over a video game, but you do you.

[Ruin Mage]

Again, if you're going to attack people in this thread, you've missed the point. Just take a deep breath and read what Veracor is asking.

[Kallisti]

The game is supposed to be fun, fun for as many as possible. I'm thankful that most of the toons I play in Hami raids can survive an incan into the monster wall, however it doesn't need to be done so if its upsetting people, stop doing it.

 

The reason we play an MMO rather than a single person RPG is working with others for a common goal. I enjoy the banter and fun we have in the Hami raids, so lets keep it fun and stop pissing people off unnecessarily.

[BlastLord]

I completely agree

[Dazl]

After being teleported in to the hami once, I refuse to accept any league tp in the Hive and only accept it in the Abyss if I trust the person doing it. Teleporting everyone into the GM's never really made sense to me either.

[Ironblade]

Questions to Veracor or Elmyder.  (Posting publicly rather than via DM since the response might be helpful to others).

 

I have never done the current format of the raid (old format, I had an ill/kin and also did lead tank).  I have started stockpiling EoE's by buying them cheap off the market and have read two Hami guides on the forums (also I have done the Lady Grey TF version numerous times).  Currently, I have only one 50 but have several AT's getting close to 50 that I picked based on what's useful in iTrials.

 

So......

1.  How many EoE's should I have?

2.  What AT (if any) are you typically short of?

3.  Have either of you written a guide or is there a guide you particularly recommend?

[Veracor]

2 hours ago, Ironblade said:

Questions to Veracor or Elmyder.  (Posting publicly rather than via DM since the response might be helpful to others).

 

I have never done the current format of the raid (old format, I had an ill/kin and also did lead tank).  I have started stockpiling EoE's by buying them cheap off the market and have read two Hami guides on the forums (also I have done the Lady Grey TF version numerous times).  Currently, I have only one 50 but have several AT's getting close to 50 that I picked based on what's useful in iTrials.

 

So......

1.  How many EoE's should I have?

2.  What AT (if any) are you typically short of?

3.  Have either of you written a guide or is there a guide you particularly recommend?

 

1. If not tanking, you should be using a minimum of 2 EoEs: one when you/your targetter first goes in, and one when we're attacking Hamidon to safeguard against the bloom of Mitos.  An optional third can be used when killing Hamidon or if a double bloom happened.  If you are tanking you'll likely be using more EoEs depending on your powerset/slotting, but should never need more than 8 EoEs unless things go horribly wrong like a triple bloom.

 

2. Lately we've been short on melee DPS, which is kind of odd.  There's usually 5-8 tanks as the next least popular role.  There's a ton of ranged DPS every raid, but we don't turn anyone down for their AT.

 

3. We haven't written a guide, but we have made brief comparisons to how other servers run their Hami raids.  Everlasting's method of raiding is simplified via targetters so everyone is invited to join.  Here's the process we follow:

 

1. Wait until the league has filled then someone teleports the league to one of the Monster walls (if in the Hive) and we kill them until Hamidon spawns.
2. There's three roles for targetting: Melee DPS, Ranged DPS, and Holds.  The raid leader designates one person for each role as the "targetter."  This person is usually one of the team leaders so that others can select them easily.  If you any of those three things, you enable flight/jetpack and put that person on follow, and assist them by attacking their target through them (Just activate skills while targetting them).  Tanks are independent and split themselves amongst the yellow Mitos.  All of the Hami raids run regularly on Everlasting have the raid leaders as the Hamidon main tank. so don't worry about that role.
3. Melee DPS kills yellows, Ranged DPS kills blues, Holds kill greens.  If all of your color Mitos are dead, start attacking the greens as they're usually the last to go down.  Your targetter should be handling this as well so just keep following and assisting through them.  Use an EoE when you first go into Hamidon.
4. When the last Mito goes down, the raid leader calls to bring Hamidon to 75% life to trigger the first bloom of new Mitos.  Use an EoE here.  Your targetter will deselect Hamidon when it hits 75% so if you're still assisting through them you don't risk over-damaging it.  Everyone goes back to the Mitos to clear them out like before.
5. When the last Mito goes down again, the raid leader calls to summon Lore pets and kill Hamidon, ignoring the second and third blooms.  Optionally use an EoE here.
6. We do two raids per session to get everyone 4 Empyrean and 80 Reward Merits, so we clear the Hamidon Buds and then immediately repeat the raid with the Monsters.  There is a badge for killing 100 Buds.

 

tl;dr: Put your targetter on follow, use an EoE when going in and when attacking Hamidon, and just activate your skills through your targetter.  They handle the rest.

 

Currently I run the daily Hamidon raids at 7pm EST and Elmyder runs the daily raids at 10pm EST.  ROBOKiTTY additionally runs Abyss Hami raids at 3pm EST on Saturday/Sunday, if you are villainy-inclined.  The schedule is posted to the MotD for the "Everlasting TFs" channel in case people forget the timing.  Note that you need to be in the Hive about 20-30 minutes early to reserve your spot due to the cap of 50 players.

 

See you next raid!