Focused Feedback: New IO Sets (Build 3)

[DR_Mechano]

10 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Not a fan of this option; Recharge is much more desirable to a wider variety of builds than a resistance bonus, so the set loses a lot of flexibility by putting the recharge in the sixth slot. In particular, it's hard on anyone using Energy Torrent or Explosive Blast, or any AoE Arachnos Mace blasts, since those powers basically have a Sudden Acceleration tax you have to pay, so the only way to still get a recharge bonus out of them would be to use the crappy Positron's Blast, or splurge on Ragnarok.

The problem is, with the 5% recharge bonus as the 5th slot it IS a crappy version of Positron's blast. If you wanted recharge why ever would you slot it over Positron which offers +1.25% recharge?

[Vanden]

8 minutes ago, Bopper said:

So you prefer a 5% recharge in 5 slots as opposed to 7.5% in 6 slots? Seems more efficient to get an extra 2.5% with one more slot, and to use Positron if going for 5 slots.

3 minutes ago, DR_Mechano said:

The problem is, with the 5% recharge bonus as the 5th slot it IS a crappy version of Positron's blast. If you wanted recharge why ever would you slot it over Positron which offers +1.25% recharge?

Bombardment offers 60% more recharge in the power than Positron's Blast. The way I see it, why would you ever slot Positron's Blast?

Edited March 7, 2020 by Vanden

[Bopper]

12 minutes ago, Vanden said:

Bombardment offers 60% more recharge in the power than Positron's Blast. The way I see it, why would you ever slot Positron's Blast?

Procs. And with enough global recharge, the recharge in a power becomes less important. As for KB/KD tax, a 5 piece Overwhelming with an FF proc is the way to go

[Vanden]

14 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Procs. And with enough global recharge, the recharge in a power becomes less important. As for KB/KD tax, a 5 piece Overwhelming with an FF proc is the way to go

OF is unique and doesn't give any global recharge at all, and not everyone hits high levels of global recharge. Most of my characters end up with around 30-50%. Right now Bombardment's in a good place, where you sacrifice some minor global set bonuses in exchange for better enhancement of the power you put it in, compared to Positron's Blast.

[Bopper]

Just now, Vanden said:

OF is unique and doesn't give any global recharge at all, and not everyone hits high levels of global recharge. Most of my characters end up with around 30-50%. Right now Bombardment's in a good place, where you sacrifice some minor global set bonuses in exchange for better enhancement of the power you put it in, compared to Positron's Blast.

An FF proc has a PPM of 2. Even if you didnt exploit it, and it truly only gave you 2 procs per minute, that equates to 16.67% global recharge added. So anything that comes with a KB tax, can just as well 4 piece a damage set and make up for the lost global recharge with an FF proc.

 

For sets that don't have a KB tax would take advantage of the options of either pursuing 6.25% recharge in a 5 piece PB, a 7.5% recharge in a 6 piece Bombardment, a 10% recharge in a 5 piece ragnorak, or the 10% recharge in a ATO (# pieces will vary).

[siolfir]

5 minutes ago, Vanden said:

OF is unique and doesn't give any global recharge at all, and not everyone hits high levels of global recharge. Most of my characters end up with around 30-50%. Right now Bombardment's in a good place, where you sacrifice some minor global set bonuses in exchange for better enhancement of the power you put it in, compared to Positron's Blast.

Supporting this: this was also the explicit tradeoff talked about to get better endurance reduction slotting in the power in earlier feedback threads - it started off at 6.25% with 3.75% ranged defense. It seems a bit counterintuitive to me to then complain that it offers less recharge than another set with worse enhancement values and try to push the set bonus later to get more strength on it.

 

I think it's fine at 5%, which I stated in the first feedback thread, although as I said earlier here I'd rather have the S/L (/M) defense than AoE (/F/C), but I like the E/N resistance idea as well.

[Bopper]

1 minute ago, siolfir said:

Supporting this: this was also the explicit tradeoff talked about to get better endurance reduction slotting in the power in earlier feedback threads - it started off at 6.25% with 3.75% ranged defense. It seems a bit counterintuitive to me to then complain that it offers less recharge than another set with worse enhancement values and try to push the set bonus later to get more strength on it.

 

I think it's fine at 5%, which I stated in the first feedback thread, although as I said earlier here I'd rather have the S/L (/M) defense than AoE (/F/C), but I like the E/N resistance idea as well.

Cool, so let's tweak the proposal. Put 5% recharge in 5 slot, 4.5% EN resistance in 6 slot. Given all the options I listed in being able to pursue recharge bonuses, I don't think it matters in the long run. There are plenty of options for any build.

[Vanden]

5 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Cool, so let's tweak the proposal. Put 5% recharge in 5 slot, 4.5% EN resistance in 6 slot. Given all the options I listed in being able to pursue recharge bonuses, I don't think it matters in the long run. There are plenty of options for any build.

I'd still prefer the S/L/Melee defense to the E/Ne resist, but as long as the Recharge stays in the fifth slot I'm pretty happy.

[Bopper]

6 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I'd still prefer the S/L/Melee defense to the E/Ne resist, but as long as the Recharge stays in the fifth slot I'm pretty happy.

In terms of build design, I think everyone would prefer the S/L defense. But that just runs us back into the Recharge+RangeDef discussion and its vastly superior combination to other sets. I agree with the earlier justification that EN resistance is lacking in set bonuses and it seems like the best compromise that replaces AoE defense while passing the balanced smell test.

 

Add on: the reason for my proposal was because I assumed folks who really like Bombardment are going to 6 slot it anyways, and it seemed fair to ask the recharge to be boosted to 7.5% but swap it to the 6th slot to justify that request. Given all the options for 5 slotting recharge, it seemed building around issues like a KB tax could be handled elsewhere. But it seems others prefer 5 slot in general, so fair enough.

Edited March 7, 2020 by Bopper
Add on

[DR_Mechano]

18 hours ago, Vanden said:

Bombardment offers 60% more recharge in the power than Positron's Blast. The way I see it, why would you ever slot Positron's Blast?

Well whoop-di-do...If you're building for large global recharge and including incarnates that extra 60% recharge (not to mention if you're using agility on Incarnates you're going to smash REAL hard into ED for recharge anyway) isn't really going to factor in to a thing. I still think with the 5% recharge it's still going to end up being convertor fodder because Posi is offering 1.25%.

[General Idiot]

Posi doesn't give defense though. So sure, if you just want recharge you're going to use Posi. But if you want both you might consider using this new set, depending on what else is in your build and whether you need more AoE defense or not. Which is fine in my opinion, a new set shouldn't automatically be the best option just because it's new.

 

Also worth noting, on a primarily ranged character you frequently run into the issue of having too many powers with 6.25% recharge bonus sets as your only option for a recharge bonus. Kheldians especially, if they take nova form. Having a 5% bonus available in targeted aoes gives more flexibility in avoiding the rule of 5.

[Bopper]

14 hours ago, 33053222 said:

can easily slot in Sudden Acceleration to use as a global proc and not run into that issue

I dont believe Sudden Acceleration is a global proc. It only turns KB into KD for the power it's slotted in.

[oedipus_tex]

IMO for most AoE powers Bombard is superior to Positron's Blast. With Bombard you lose 1.25% global recharge and 2% global accuracy but gain +2.25% S/L Resist which is normally somewhat hard to grab on a Recharge build. I'll be swapping most of my Posi slotting over to Bombard.

[Major_Decoy]

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

I dont believe Sudden Acceleration is a global proc. It only turns KB into KD for the power it's slotted in.

It isn't, but Mids has been applying it as a global proc and that apparently has been misleading people.

[Zeraphia]

11 hours ago, Bopper said:

I dont believe Sudden Acceleration is a global proc. It only turns KB into KD for the power it's slotted in.

 

9 hours ago, Major_Decoy said:

It isn't, but Mids has been applying it as a global proc and that apparently has been misleading people.

Thjis^ I also recall reading somewhere on the forums that apparently it is supposed to be a global proc now?

[The Curator]

7 hours ago, 33053222 said:

Thjis^ I also recall reading somewhere on the forums that apparently it is supposed to be a global proc now?

No, it never was and it was never supposed to be.