Ice Armor / Icicles

[JayboH]

Can this please be changed to cold damage?

[Redlynne]

Icicles is Lethal damage because the damage is "piercing" type, rather than being Cold damage because they're ... what's the stuff that makes water change from liquid to solid?

[JayboH]

...yet it doesn't pierce mechanically, so either way it makes no sense.  Pierce as a concept is in the game but it's basically just using a cone like Piercing Beam in Beam Rifle.

[Tugzug]

Attacks that deal piercing/penetration damage are Lethal, is what he means. Arrows "pierce" the skin, thus Lethal. Same for Icicles. Though, I could understand an argument to make them half-Lethal half-Cold.

[JayboH]

Weird, we better change the fire and ice swords as an example to all lethal if that's the entire argument surrounding the design.  I'd be fine with half and half - but having an ice set deal zero ice damage in a damage aura is strange. 

[plainguy]

On 3/14/2020 at 4:42 AM, JayboH said:

Weird, we better change the fire and ice swords as an example to all lethal if that's the entire argument surrounding the design.  I'd be fine with half and half - but having an ice set deal zero ice damage in a damage aura is strange. 

Stop trying to make sense..

[Redlynne]

Icicles aren't trying to defeat you by draining away body heat ... they're trying to defeat you by (repeatedly) poking holes in you using rapidly manifesting spiky pointy bits that poke right through you.  Kind of like how spears try to defeat you by (repeatedly?) poking holes in you using a spiky pointy bit that pokes right through you.

 

Sure, the Icicles are "made by the cold" but it's not the cold that makes them ouchie ... it's the spearing through you that makes them ouchie ... and that spearing action is classified as Lethal damage, not Cold, so even though the spears are "made by" cold the damage that they do is Lethal typed.

[JayboH]

On 4/18/2020 at 11:25 PM, Redlynne said:

Icicles aren't trying to defeat you by draining away body heat ... they're trying to defeat you by (repeatedly) poking holes in you using rapidly manifesting spiky pointy bits that poke right through you.  Kind of like how spears try to defeat you by (repeatedly?) poking holes in you using a spiky pointy bit that pokes right through you.

 

Sure, the Icicles are "made by the cold" but it's not the cold that makes them ouchie ... it's the spearing through you that makes them ouchie ... and that spearing action is classified as Lethal damage, not Cold, so even though the spears are "made by" cold the damage that they do is Lethal typed.

Already defeated that whole argument above with the fire and ice swords

[JJDrakken]

On 4/20/2020 at 4:33 PM, JayboH said:

Already defeated that whole argument above with the fire and ice swords

Sounds like you just want to argue. But as someone who's had a rock hard icicle pierce his skin in deep winter, it ain't the cold your feeling. It's the piercing. After you yank it out, you feel the cold from the winter air around you aka Your chilling embrace.  As for swords. They "magically" generate cold & heat into a physical form. Not actual solidness to them, just manifestation of what they are in your hands.

 

Are you honestly trying bring in real world logic & physics into a video game, let alone a super hero one?

[JayboH]

On 5/7/2020 at 9:25 AM, JJDrakken said:

Sounds like you just want to argue. But as someone who's had a rock hard icicle pierce his skin in deep winter, it ain't the cold your feeling. It's the piercing. After you yank it out, you feel the cold from the winter air around you aka Your chilling embrace.  As for swords. They "magically" generate cold & heat into a physical form. Not actual solidness to them, just manifestation of what they are in your hands.

 

Are you honestly trying bring in real world logic & physics into a video game, let alone a super hero one?

If someone doesn't agree with the 'logic' (haha) of an argument that means they just want to argue?

 

I would like to have a cold damage-type aura.

[Hardboiled Hero]

It's not a matter of wanting to argue.  Cold is resisted less than lethal, (because it's easier to keep a knife blade from penetrating your skin than it is to put a jacket on?) so making it cold damage would make it more powerful.

[Redlynne]

19 hours ago, JayboH said:

I would like to have a cold damage-type aura.

And as soon as Homecoming grants you your wish with a Liquid Nitrogen Splash Aura ... you'll have it.

 

2 hours ago, Hardboiled Hero said:

Cold is resisted less than lethal, (because it's easier to keep a knife blade from penetrating your skin than it is to put a jacket on?) so making it cold damage would make it more powerful.

[Frostweaver]

No, he's got a point.
Icicles is less valuable than other auras specifically because it's damage is the most common type in the game,
Electric is energy, dark is dark, fire is fire, heck, even stone gets fire damage. And from a logical standpoint, any cold that is brutal enough to make a 4' long icicle instantly form from 'ambient' water in the atmosphere is more than capable of doing nasty things to your body.

I assume that since most of us are adults, an animated gif is not required to explain it.
 

[JayboH]

The two we don't have in the game is cold and smashing as far as I know, if you consider World of Confusion a damage aura.  Incarnate Interface is also missing these damage types - I would suggest if one was to be created, that it would be along the lines of the other control types Spiritual and Cognitive where there are chances for knockdown or fear along with Smashing etc.  I guess I should start another thread for that though.

[JayboH]

On 6/17/2020 at 10:29 PM, JayboH said:

The two we don't have in the game is cold and smashing as far as I know, if you consider World of Confusion a damage aura.  Incarnate Interface is also missing these damage types - I would suggest if one was to be created, that it would be along the lines of the other control types Spiritual and Cognitive where there are chances for knockdown or fear along with Smashing etc.  I guess I should start another thread for that though.

In case anyone is interested, I did make another thread for that HERE.

[Pouncy]

This is fun.

In a sense all cold damage is piercing.  The sudden crystalizing of liquids in the cells into sharp spears ruptures them. 8Þ If you could prevent this like the wood frog then you could freeze and love it.  Ok not love it but survive.  But if an icicle landed on you in the mean time...

 

As for the fire sword I am reminded of the much coveted fire sword in DnD.  I have seen where it was made of steel when it was aflame it would do both slashing and fire damage.

And I have seen several variations where it was only fire from a magic handle that would still slice and scorch.  Thus the slicing did one type of damage and the scorching d.... wouldn't that just cauterize the wound?  🤔

 

So in a sense some of this makes no sense since its all make believe anyway. 🤣

 

P.S. I got to thinking. Someone has to do piercing damage or then there would be one less damage to protect from.  Then the spread of IOs would be less making all the other resistances stronger.  And we don't want that now do we.

 

So thank you for using icicles.  WE all appreciate your sacrifice/contribution.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Pouncy

[Oysterhead]

1 hour ago, Pouncy said:

P.S. I got to thinking. Someone has to do piercing damage or then there would be one less damage to protect from.  Then the spread of IOs would be less making all the other resistances stronger.  And we don't want that now do we.

 

To be clear, there is no piercing damage, piercing resistance or piercing defense. Piercing is lethal. Lethal is perhaps the most common damage type in the game. So there's no risk of changing this one damage aura to cold causing any imbalance 😃

[JayboH]

It's weird isn't it?

[Hardboiled Hero]

@JayboH

 

  The thing is, I wouldn't call it weird.  People have explained how it's lethal (piercing) damage.  So just saying "It's weird" has many people saying, "No." without really thinking about it.

 

  Now it's been a while since I looked at the chart, but IIRC, lethal is the second most commonly resisted type of damage.  (Just double checked, it's indeed second behind toxic)

 

  For the sake of moving the discussion along, allow me to say that Lethal seems to have a innate 47.54% chance to be resisted and the average resistance against it is 13.97%. 4.92% of mobs are specifically weak to lethal.

  Cold appears to have an innate 36.07% resist chance and it's average resist is 8.76%, with 14.75% of mobs being weak.

 

  So just changing the damage type would make the power significantly more damaging.  If the damage type were actually changed I suspect we'd see a reduction in base numbers though.  I'm actually in favor of changing this power to a cold aura.. not only do I feel it would make the powerset more unique, I also don't play ice armor characters specifically because I don't like icicles popping out of my character.

[Eldyem]

On 6/12/2021 at 1:17 PM, Hardboiled Hero said:

So just changing the damage type would make the power significantly more damaging.  If the damage type were actually changed I suspect we'd see a reduction in base numbers though.  I'm actually in favor of changing this power to a cold aura.. not only do I feel it would make the powerset more unique, I also don't play ice armor characters specifically because I don't like icicles popping out of my character.

Would it? The damage is equivalent to the other damage auras, which do more "exotic" damage types.

[JayboH]

On 6/14/2021 at 4:08 PM, Eldyem said:

Would it? The damage is equivalent to the other damage auras, which do more "exotic" damage types.

To be honest, if they had to nerf its damage purely because of the damage type change, I would almost be ok with it, even though that would be a hard argument to make balance-wise due to the myriad of resistances from different baddies.

[TheZag]

Seems this had alot of back and forth.  I dont see the problem with having an icicle do lethal and cold damage.  They get poked and cold hurts some more.