Why is MIND CONTROL so weak?

[DustySatchel]

I really like Mind Control, have since the game began. I like the variety of the set, but I agree that its overshadowed by some other ones *looks at Earth*.

 

I was really sad when the melee characters got Psi Melee/Mass Levitate. Mass Levitate definitely feels like it should have been a Controller skill: lift a group off the ground, and slam them back down stunned. Would at least help make fighting mechanical enemies a little less painful.

[Crashen]

Okay so my Pie in the Sky idea? 

 

Swap Mass Confusion and TK

 

Scrap TK, replace it with <Insert Clever Name Here>

 

<Insert Clever Name Here> disorients X amount of enemies in Y Large radius (above average for an AoE) for Z seconds. During the disorientation period, the enemies run/walk towards the center of the AoE. At the end of the duration, enemies take a medium amount of psionic damage based on how many reached the center/area around the center. As in, for each enemy that reached say a 5 foot circle in the middle deals a moderate amount of damage. So the more enemies that reach that center point, the more damage dealt. (This damage part could be scrapped entirely)

 

Enemies Held by Total Domination are also affected by Levitate when it is cast on an enemy held by Total Domination. 

 

When Mass Hypnosis ends (whether through damage or duration) enemies are Disoriented for X seconds. 

 

<Insert Clever Name Here> probably is impossible, I don't know how the coding would work for that. But I feel like it would be both thematic and synergize really well. Nothing says "Mind Control" like making a group of people walk to their certain doom. And it sets them up (without just straight up picking them up and dropping them *cough*wormhole*) to be controlled better. They all clump up, and then you can hit them with Terrify for some sweet Containment damage while they are disoriented, Mass Confusion to ensure they actually hit each other, or Total Domination to lock them down. Then a nice mass levitate to hurt them some. Mass Hypnosis having a Disorient component helps it fulfill it's role as an AoE CC even in a group, though an immobilize would be suitable too.

[kiramon]

On 4/9/2020 at 9:03 AM, r0y said:

I concur.  A good fix would be to REMOVE and REPLACE telekinesis with something else that give containment.  Move things around as others have suggested many times.

A  mass hold where they just float would be sweet. 

[r0y]

12 hours ago, kiramon said:

A  mass hold where they just float would be sweet. 

Gravity's AoE hold does this already.  It does look sweet, too!

[kiramon]

25 minutes ago, r0y said:

Gravity's AoE hold does this already.  It does look sweet, too!

Yah but bigger! Like ghost widows lol

[Blackfeather]

On 5/22/2020 at 4:00 AM, capricorpse said:

OR, to make the Repel more interesting, what if it worked like this - You activate Telekinesis, and for the duration, you get a click-target circle (like Teleport) and that becomes the source of the repel? Instead of moving yourself around, is it possible to just click around every couple of seconds to move them (or keep them stationary), in true telekinetic fashion?  I understand from earlier responses that the "implosion/reverse-repel" doesn't work with the way the game is coded, but could this?

Actually, it sounds like 'reverse-repel' might indeed be a thing that's possible now. I'm pretty sure the HC team made some changes to Knockback behind the scenes that allows for things like this now. So who knows?

[Blackfeather]

As an addendum to the post above:

So it does sound like it's in the codebase already too.

[r0y]

4 hours ago, Blackfeather said:

Actually, it sounds like 'reverse-repel' might indeed be a thing that's possible now. I'm pretty sure the HC team made some changes to Knockback behind the scenes that allows for things like this now. So who knows?

Something like Gorefiend's Grasp?

[Blackfeather]

5 hours ago, r0y said:

Something like Gorefiend's Grasp?

Potentially! Per Number Six's quote:

Quote

That said, we don't need hacky pseuedopet workarounds. The Issue 25+ engine has a revamped powers system with a bunch of new features that have not yet been utilized by many, if any powers. One of features of the new framework is the ability for any effect (or mod) to take arbitrary extra parameters, which makes it easier to implement variations. There are plans for some point in the future to leverage that to add vectorized knockback and repel. That would take the form of an extra parameter on Knock and Repel effects that powers could use to set the direction of force to apply. The default of course would be along a line from the source to the target -- exactly how KB and Repel currently work. But there are a lot of possible options that could be set including a reversal of that, and various other vectors relative to that one, or to world space.

 

Such a feature would essentially make the Knockup attribute obsolete, as it would be redundant with Knock with a vector of straight up. One other interesting thing this would enable is the possibility of powers that deliver high-magnitude knockdown.

So it seems like choosing the direction with which Knockback/Repel applies is now something that can be done, with all that might entail.

[Zepp]

To clarify, the code does not appear to allow "negative repel/knockback" but to allow vectored knockback. That means that the knockback would be applied in a specified direction and not necessarily from point of impact.

[Blackfeather]

3 minutes ago, Zepp said:

To clarify, the code does not appear to allow "negative repel/knockback" but to allow vectored knockback. That means that the knockback would be applied in a specified direction and not necessarily from point of impact.

Yup - meaning that "negative repel" is just one example of something that they can now do. It's exciting stuff for sure.

[Zepp]

6 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Yup - meaning that "negative repel" is just one example of something that they can now do. It's exciting stuff for sure.

If by "negative repel" you mean an x' radius aura repelling x' range towards the center of the aura, then yes. Very exciting! Just want to be clear on what can happen as it allows for more meaningful discussion of concepts.

[Blackfeather]

7 minutes ago, Zepp said:

If by "negative repel" you mean an x' radius aura repelling x' range towards the center of the aura, then yes. Very exciting! Just want to be clear on what can happen as it allows for more meaningful discussion of concepts.

Nothing wrong with further clarification of its capabilities! Needless to say, it sounds very versatile.

[MTeague]

I read that more like... they'd have he possibilty to make Gale a Targetted Knock..... so you activate the power, you choose a location.  If you click a point to the RIGHT of the mob, then gale would blow from that point towards the mob, sending them off to the LEFT.  If you click behind the mob, gale would blow from that point toward them, shoving them directly at you.   If you clicked BELOW the mob, Gale would be an updraft flinging them up into the air. 

 

But I don't see them saying you can pick a point and mobs will be pushed from all directions to this center point. 

 

I've love it if we can do that.  But I wouldn't expect that on first pass.  Because as I'm reading this, to get that to to work, they'd need to identify every affected mob, then calculate a vector from the affected mob to the selected location, then apply a vectored knock to that point. And also, no guarantee they wouldn't be pushed BEYOND your selected location.  Maybe the mob 4 feet to the right of yoru selected location ends up 15 feet to the left of your selected location, because the knock threw him 15 feet in that direction... not stopping at any kind of invisible barrier at the "center point".

 

Can they get there?  Yes, I think eventually.  But first pass, I think you're more likely to see knockbacks where a direciton is applied a thte mob sails however far in that direction, whether or not it goes further than you might want them to.

[Blackfeather]

8 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I read that more like... they'd have he possibilty to make Gale a Targetted Knock..... so you activate the power, you choose a location.  If you click a point to the RIGHT of the mob, then gale would blow from that point towards the mob, sending them off to the LEFT.  If you click behind the mob, gale would blow from that point toward them, shoving them directly at you.   If you clicked BELOW the mob, Gale would be an updraft flinging them up into the air. 

 

But I don't see them saying you can pick a point and mobs will be pushed from all directions to this center point. 

 

I've love it if we can do that.  But I wouldn't expect that on first pass.  Because as I'm reading this, to get that to to work, they'd need to identify every affected mob, then calculate a vector from the affected mob to the selected location, then apply a vectored knock to that point. And also, no guarantee they wouldn't be pushed BEYOND your selected location.  Maybe the mob 4 feet to the right of yoru selected location ends up 15 feet to the left of your selected location, because the knock threw him 15 feet in that direction... not stopping at any kind of invisible barrier at the "center point".

 

Can they get there?  Yes, I think eventually.  But first pass, I think you're more likely to see knockbacks where a direciton is applied a thte mob sails however far in that direction, whether or not it goes further than you might want them to.

Well...I found this link on the HC Discord: https://imgur.com/a/suD2avn

 

So in the absence of further dev comments, it sounds like a "reverse repel" is indeed possible with this new system.

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Blackfeather said:

it sounds like a "reverse repel" is indeed possible with this new system.

That's ... an expansively broad over interpretation of what is being said.

 

Getting things to explode is easy.

Getting things to implode in a controlled way ... that's hard ...

 

[Blackfeather]

7 hours ago, Redlynne said:

That's ... an expansively broad over interpretation of what is being said.

 

Getting things to explode is easy.

Getting things to implode in a controlled way ... that's hard ...

Again, in the absence of further dev comments saying otherwise, it sounds like it's possible. How else is this supposed to be interpreted other than a "reverse repel"?

[GM Tock]

Alright I’ve hidden a few posts on here.

 

Please be civil to each other and refrain from personal attacks.  (And I for one enjoy mind control as a power set.)

[Android Nim]

TK should be a lockdown toggle like distortion field but without the phase shift

 

use the animation from grav's group hold 

[Marshal_General]

It would be kind of nice and potentially OP for mind to take a page from the DAoC sorcerer and be able to charm mobs for a time that would follow you until the timer wore off or they died.

I kind if want to put the mind control in Mind Control.

[Panache]

I would just like to be able to buff confused mobs.

[Marshal_General]

Its mind control. Replace telekinesis with a power that make the mobs affected by it do a random dance emote until it wears off.

[EmperorSteele]

8 hours ago, Panache said:

I would just like to be able to buff confused mobs.

 

I know it's not the same or applicable to every secondary, but you could always debuff the non-confused mobs instead!

Edited August 21, 2020 by EmperorSteele
a word

[DZKFire]

I'd love an attract mechanic on telekinesis, but as everyone already said, the game is kind of limited on how to perform it.

 

As "unique" as telekinesis is, I would not miss it at all if it were scrapped. I've probably used it 3 times to it's potential: PvP many many years ago, one time during the Yin TF ambush and we got overwhelmed by the ambush at last mission, Terra Volta trials.

 

I would just replace it with a targeted AoE knockdown power that deals "moderate" to "low" damage at a debatable cool down. That way we have another mass fire-and-forget CC skill, which Mind/ tends to really focus on. It would also be an alternative to opening with terrify (which, imo, isn't a good CC opener like what other primaries have) or cycling total domination/mass confusion (which is not viable due to the absurd CDs even at perma dom level recharge). Unfortunately it won't solve the "no way to reliably get containment" problem, but at least it would be a pretty equal power to both controllers and dominators since KDs are not buffed by domination.

 

I'd also change the name to something like Induce Clumsiness or something because I'm of the mindset that Mind Control is *Mind* control, not psychic powers with a bit of telekinetic flavor... which just leaves levitate lol...

[Panache]

On 8/20/2020 at 10:31 PM, EmperorSteele said:

 

I know it's not the same or applicable to every secondary, but you could always debuff the non-confused mobs instead!

You hit the nail on the head with the secondary bit. Eradicating entire secondaries for soloing efficacy is /sadface (I know this is 'by design' to encourage teaming, but there are very few 'modern' controller secondaries that are designed this way).