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Poison Guide

Frosticus

By Frosticus
in Defender

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reib

reib

Posted
Posted (edited)

Ty for that, poison It Is not a Easy set to understand. I have a poison/ Sonic def Who obviously have some Issues (no heal, no mez prot, maybe not enough res/def). Can you post a build for him please?

Edited by reib
Frosticus

Frosticus

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 4/10/2020 at 5:38 PM, JayboH said:

That set needs a revamp/tweaks/retooling - Powerhouse knows this too.

Expand  

I doubt many would disagree. 

 

The nice thing about learning to enjoy/excel with sets that will likely get buffs is that you dont have throngs of forum users clamoring for nerfs and the inevitable sword hanging  over your head like some other sets. Future buffs give you something  to look forward to in comparison to playing overturned sets and wondering if the next patch is the end haha. 

 

  • Like 4

Earth/Psi Dom - AV killer

Arsenal/Sav Dom - AV Killer

Poison - a guide to the most deadly poisons

Frosticus

Frosticus

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 4/9/2020 at 7:14 AM, reib said:

Ty for that, poison It Is not a Easy set to understand. I have a poison/ Sonic def Who obviously have some Issues (no heal, no mez prot, maybe not enough res/def). Can you post a build for him please?

Expand  

It is not easy to understand, that is very true!

poison utilizes mechanics that most players are unfamiliar with, or how they interact with one another.

 

I dont have a build for poison/sonic but you could look at the poison/fire in the thread I linked. that might get you most of the way depending on how you prefer to play. 

 

 

Earth/Psi Dom - AV killer

Arsenal/Sav Dom - AV Killer

Poison - a guide to the most deadly poisons

fitzsimmons

fitzsimmons

Posted
Posted

This is my poison/sonic build... he nasty.

  

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
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|2CCD612FB589FFF8070B1EEE23|
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|

nihilii

nihilii

Posted
Posted

Frosticus, THANK YOU for that guide!!

 

I'm done PLing a poison/fire to 50 and have been playing it for the evening, TFs and the like. What an absolute blast. The sheer numbers it pushes out, the force multiplying... But more than that, it's such a dynamic playstyle with so much going on that you have to manage to get the most out of it - and that management process is fun, something that isn't always true for all sets. Having all of this tied to lightning quick animations makes everything incredibly responsive, victories feel earned and mistakes deserved.

It's been a long, long time since I've been able to truly enjoy a support AT. And now I might just have my new favorite debuff powerset. A++

 

  • Thanks 1
reib

reib

Posted
Posted
  On 4/10/2020 at 8:48 PM, fitzsimmons said:

This is my poison/sonic build... he nasty.

 

  

| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build |
|-------------------------------------------------------------------|
|MxDz;1457;683;1366;HEX;|
|78DA6594C953135110C6DF2C21241008B2EF1084204820EADD52504B592A10F59A1|
|AC38053C69954325872F40FF08C4BB9960BB81D64BB82CBDD33585A7A53CBE5E27A|
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Expand  

Thank you so much for that. I work on It!

Knottewe

Knottewe

Posted
Posted
  On 4/10/2020 at 5:38 PM, JayboH said:

That set needs a revamp/tweaks/retooling - Powerhouse knows this too.

Expand  

Poison is far better than most forumites believe and the tweaks it needs are actually pretty minor.

 

It is easily my favourite defender and hopefully Frosticus' excellent guide will get more people to give it another look.

JayboH

JayboH

Posted
Posted
  On 4/11/2020 at 12:26 PM, Knottewe said:

Poison is far better than most forumites believe and the tweaks it needs are actually pretty minor.

 

It is easily my favourite defender and hopefully Frosticus' excellent guide will get more people to give it another look.

Expand  

He had a whole powerset change plan being shown and discussed in the closed beta forums for Poison so it would be great to see some of that implemented on the beta server here at some point as time allows.

image.png.440bd3ba66421192ca1fb954c5d313c2.pngspacer.pngFlint Eastwood

Mr. Vee

Mr. Vee

Posted
Posted
  On 4/11/2020 at 12:22 PM, Menelruin said:

Has anyone made a build for Poison/DP?  Does the extra -damage from Toxic ammo help much? 

Expand  

it's hard to tell as it's a beast anyway but it certainly doesn't hurt. note that the build depends on defensive amplifier as I always use that instead of clarion

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Hunter S. Burroughs - Defender (Poison).mxdFetching info...

  • Thanks 1
Menelruin

Menelruin

Posted
Posted
  On 4/11/2020 at 7:00 PM, Veelectric Boogaloo said:

it's hard to tell as it's a beast anyway but it certainly doesn't hurt. note that the build depends on defensive amplifier as I always use that instead of clarion

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Hunter S. Burroughs - Defender (Poison).mxd 5.57 kB · 0 downloads

Expand  

SWEEEEET!

Frosticus

Frosticus

Posted
  • Author
Posted
  On 4/11/2020 at 12:22 PM, Menelruin said:

Has anyone made a build for Poison/DP?  Does the extra -damage from Toxic ammo help much? 

Expand  

Single target it can make a tangible difference against +3-4's, below that poison can usually flatline their damage by itself. 

 

Definitely helpful as an aoe debuff. 

 

Plus it is conceptually really cool. 

  • Like 1

Earth/Psi Dom - AV killer

Arsenal/Sav Dom - AV Killer

Poison - a guide to the most deadly poisons

JayboH

JayboH

Posted
Posted

Here's a copy/paste of the Poison suggestions from a powers developer:

Alkaloid
Currently this power heals for less than other similar heals.

Proposed change: Increased heal to 1.96 scale (same as other similar heals)

Envenom
Envenom's numbers seem considerably strong, specially once in the hands of defenders. However, it's small radius makes it hard to leverage adequately, and ends up falling short of expectations. For reference, Tar Patch is -90% movement speed and -30% res debuff.

This power inflicts (ST/AoE)

-Resist: 40%/20%
-Def: 37.5%/18.75%
-Regen: 50%/25%
-Resist Heal: 20%/10%

That does not sound too bad at all, specially with it's recharge. My biggest grudge, I think, would be with the radius. It's very small to actually do a significant impact, but it has a 16 target cap.

So what I'm trying with this one:
*The Resist Heal chunk will be full power all across.
*The power radius will be boosted to 20ft making it much easier to leverage.

Edit: Why 20ft and not less? Most support-class AoE debuffs tend to be either 25ft or 30ft (with some exceptions.) Although 20ft a drastic jump from the current 8ft, it is actually a conservative value when compared to such other debuffs. Not going for the full 25ft because I'm trying to counter-balance it's stronger up-front value.


Weaken
-Dmg: 37.5%/18.75%
-ToHit: 18.75%/9.375%
-PowerBoost: 74.5%/37.25%
-Speed: 74.5%/37.25%

Again, these values actually look considerably strong, and the biggest issue is how small the radius is. So same idea, try boosting it to 20ft radius for the weaker components.


Neurotoxic Breath
This is a VERY strong -recharge (for defenders, its 81.25%) Sure, a similar power somewhere else is better in some ways, but that goes around in this game. Powers need to be tweaked a bit more in the context of the set. Given this version does not stack with itself, I'd say the best thing to do here is to double the duration so it does not require spamming to sustain the debuff.

Trying: Duration increased to 50s

Elixir of Life
A rez that makes the target useless once it crashes after 90 seconds, so counterproductive that some rather take a wakie than accept it.

So... Removing the crash. You should still barf, just for show, once the buffs expire.

Antidote
I hear requests to make this power AoE, but given how it can stack with itself, thats not a good idea, not as a whole anyways. Like Clear Mind and similar powers, there is a use for powers like this, specially facing things like Ghost Widow, but to do a bit of a quality of life boost, I'm considering to boost it's non-stacking elements (resist to cold, toxic, recharge and run speed) AoE. You still will have to work sustaining the mez protection on a whole team, but you can also spread the secondary buffs around.

Paralytic Poison
Biggest issue with this one: all it does is hold and at a high recharge at that, meaning its a useless power against bosses, EBs and AVs unless you have lots of recharge. Powers of this type usually have secondary effects that make the power not a complete waste if used on enemies with mez protection, so I'm thinking of giving it a heavy -Recharge and movement debuff (so it sill sort of does something even if the target resist the Hold)

As the power describes: "can leave an affected target completely held and defenseless" so ... -10% Resist for 30 seconds, non-stackable.

Edit: There has been a valid issue of the stacking potential of multiple Envenom applications by using alternate targets to stack both segments of the debuff in two targets continuously. Due to this I'm changing the -res to a low duration -dmg.


Noxious Gas
This one is Mastermind Only. I'm thinking lowering the recharge to 90s, since the version of the power the other versions got is an 8s recharge toggle. That one has no chance to hold but this one has modifiers that may be lower based on what henchman you use it. (And that chance to hold is actually just a puke animation that has an average rate of 16.48% to trigger during it's 45s duration (it's a 0.2% chance with 90 checks every half a second.)

Edit: One concern, currently this power cant ever be perma even at the recharge cap. Although I do want it to be perma with SOs (the one in other sets is a toggle that can be on all the time) I dont want it to be possible to have it active on two henchmen at a time.

Venomous Gas
This is a very solid power: it's a T9 debuff aura that requires the target to be in foot stomp range. Other than perhaps increasing the radius (you are a squishy that must be in melee range to use it) there is no much this power needs.

Trying: Buffing the radius to 20ft.


Poison Trap
Ah poison trap. There is a lot of things going on comparing it to the Traps version. There is no way I'm making this thing the nasty beast that is Trap's Poison Trap with it's absurd -1000% regeneration. I also rather differentiate than clone it. Just because its called the same does not mean it should behave the same.

This set already has a lot of stuff going on. Think it already tossed every debuff on the book... all except one I think... one that has never been used in game... -MaxHP. I will try to give this power a -MaxHP debuff, now, the way -MaxHP works means that it will have a bigger effect on low-hp critters than in high-hp ones, an interesting contrast to -Regen that packs a bigger punch when used against AVs and bigger HP bags. I cant give a number at the moment, but it cant be too strong.

 

NOTE:  This was written years ago and was never tested, nor does it indicate any actual development taking place.

image.png.440bd3ba66421192ca1fb954c5d313c2.pngspacer.pngFlint Eastwood

Sir Myshkin

Sir Myshkin

Posted
Posted

Side thought(s):

  • I always felt Alkaloid should've been a splash AoE Heal with +Mez protection (Sleep, Stun), main burst on target with overflow to surrounding team mates, like throwing an actual vial of liquid out there, or a 'chemical' balloon. Also plays into theme with other abilities causing similar style trickle-effects in the set.
  • Antidote should be a ST Heal with +Mez protection (Hold, Fear, Confuse, Immobilize), make both powers reasonable, purposeful, and unique in their delivery of status protection (within theme).
  • Neurotoxic Breath should have been a Fear based ability in my opinion (could still keep -Rech/Slow). Far too many otherwise-psuedo-holds in the game (and we can't even slot hold enhancements for it, which that alone would give it more utility with procs), need more diversity. In fact, lets just all-out change this to a 'grenade' or something tossable to get a TAoE in the mix, make it cross-useful with Venomous Gasses without being a cone. Neurotoxin Grenade.
  • Fix the animations to be more "on brand" ... if that makes sense. Entirely opinion, but they feel like they're too all over the place. Poison Trap looks like a science-crafted tool, but several of the abilities are just a quick gather-up of globby-gooey and chucking it, and then the "wrist shot" sort-of projectile? I'd have loved to see a vial or something for Alkaloid/Antidote be thrown, or Elixir of Life include drinking out of one as the character stands (and give relevance to a later-on puking)... anything to give some flair to an otherwise somewhat (again, opinionated) bland set.

Animation qualms aside, I feel like these three things would move us in a direction that folks would take more than four powers out of the entire set (and not just to mule them).

  • Like 2
Pylon Test Run Submission Proc Monsters (Controller Edition) Proc Monsters (Defender Edition)
Pylon Test Run Results Proc Monsters (Tanker Edition) "Mad King Special"
"Ceterum autem censeo  Iram esse delendam" Mad King Special - Force Edition (NEW!)

 

Hjarki

Hjarki

Posted
Posted
  On 4/11/2020 at 12:26 PM, Knottewe said:

It is easily my favourite defender and hopefully Frosticus' excellent guide will get more people to give it another look.

Expand  

I tend to classify support sets into:

  • Universal. You can staple this onto almost anything and end up with a fairly strong build. I'd place Storm and Time into this category.
  • Workable. You can make certain, specific strong builds with this set, but you can't just paste it willy-nilly everywhere. This is where I'd put Poison.
  • Dysfunctional. These are the sets that really need a review. For whatever reason, they just don't mesh very well with anything and you'd almost always be better off just using another (similar but better) power set.

From my perspective, the issue with Poison is that it's really a melee-range set. It's got 4 key powers: Envenom, Weaken, Poison Trap and Venomous Gas. Two of those are PBAoE powers and the other two are only AE if you've got a very compact spawn - they're not the sort of thing you fire from 80 yards away at an unengaged target unless it's a single target fight.

 

Given that constraint, your choices for other sets are somewhat limited. While you could just pair it with a standard ranged set and just not fight at range, you really want to pair it with a set that also fights in close quarters to get best use out of it. Unfortunately, there just isn't much in the Defender/Corruptor/Mastermind arsenal that fits this profile. Controllers are a bit better, with viable melee attacks and damage auras.

  • Like 1
Knottewe

Knottewe

Posted
Posted (edited)
  On 4/15/2020 at 12:02 PM, Hjarki said:

Workable. You can make certain, specific strong builds with this set, but you can't just paste it willy-nilly everywhere. This is where I'd put Poison.

Expand  

 

Poison/Archery

  Reveal hidden contents
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  • (15) Miracle - +Recovery
  • (15) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
  • (A) Jumping IO
  • (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  • (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod
  • (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
  • (A) Run Speed IO

Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
------------

 

Poison/DP

  Reveal hidden contents
  • (A) Accuracy IO
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  • (23) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
  • (25) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  • (A) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage
  • (25) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  • (27) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
  • (27) Force Feedback - Chance for +Recharge
  • (29) Annihilation - Chance for Res Debuff
  • (46) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
  • (A) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
  • (29) Basilisk's Gaze - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
  • (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
  • (31) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
  • (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  • (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  • (A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance
  • (A) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
  • (33) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff
  • (33) Neuronic Shutdown - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
  • (33) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
  • (34) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
  • (34) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage
  • (A) Gladiator's Javelin - Accuracy/Damage
  • (34) Gladiator's Javelin - Chance of Damage(Toxic)
  • (36) Apocalypse - Damage
  • (36) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
  • (36) Touch of Lady Grey - Chance for Negative Damage
  • (37) Shield Breaker - Chance for Lethal Damage
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  • (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
  • (37) Dark Watcher's Despair - Recharge/Endurance
  • (37) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
  • (39) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff
  • (A) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage
  • (39) Artillery - Damage/Endurance
  • (39) Artillery - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  • (40) Positron's Blast - Chance of Damage(Energy)
  • (40) Javelin Volley - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
  • (50) Impeded Swiftness - Chance of Damage(Smashing)
  • (A) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage
  • (40) Superior Defender's Bastion - Damage/Recharge
  • (42) Superior Defender's Bastion - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  • (42) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  • (42) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  • (43) Superior Defender's Bastion - Recharge/Chance for Minor PBAoE Heal
  • (A) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
  • (43) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
  • (43) Neuronic Shutdown - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
  • (45) Gladiator's Javelin - Chance of Damage(Toxic)
  • (45) Basilisk's Gaze - Accuracy/Hold
  • (45) Basilisk's Gaze - Chance for Recharge Slow
  • (A) Gladiator's Armor - Resistance
  • (46) Gladiator's Armor - End/Resist
  • (46) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
  • (A) Coercive Persuasion  - Confused
  • (48) Coercive Persuasion  - Confused/Recharge
  • (48) Coercive Persuasion  - Accuracy/Confused/Recharge
  • (48) Coercive Persuasion  - Accuracy/Recharge
  • (50) Coercive Persuasion  - Confused/Endurance
  • (50) Coercive Persuasion  - Contagious Confusion
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Celerity - +Stealth

Level 2: Rest
  •  

Poison/Elec This one looks interesting

 

  Reveal hidden contents
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  • (15) Miracle - +Recovery
  • (15) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
  • (A) Jumping IO
  • (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  • (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod
  • (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
  • (A) Run Speed IO

Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
------------

 

Poison/Fire

  Reveal hidden contents
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  • (15) Miracle - +Recovery
  • (15) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
  • (A) Jumping IO
  • (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  • (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod
  • (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
  • (A) Run Speed IO

Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
------------

 

Poison/Ice

  Reveal hidden contents
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  • (13) Miracle - +Recovery
  • (13) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
  • (A) Jumping IO
  • (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  • (15) Synapse's Shock - EndMod
  • (15) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
  • (A) Run Speed IO

Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
------------

 

Poison/Psi

  Reveal hidden contents
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  • (13) Miracle - +Recovery
  • (13) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
  • (A) Jumping IO
  • (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  • (15) Synapse's Shock - EndMod
  • (15) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
  • (A) Run Speed IO

Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
------------

 

Poison/Rad

  Reveal hidden contents
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  • (15) Miracle - +Recovery
  • (15) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
  • (A) Jumping IO
  • (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  • (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod
  • (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
  • (A) Run Speed IO

Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
------------

 

Poison/Water

  Reveal hidden contents
  • (A) Empty
  • (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  • (15) Miracle - +Recovery
  • (15) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
  • (A) Jumping IO
  • (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
  • (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod
  • (17) Synapse's Shock - EndMod/Increased Run Speed
  • (A) Run Speed IO

Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Nerve Core Paragon 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 1: Combo Level 1 
Level 1: Combo Level 2 
Level 1: Combo Level 3 
------------

 

*Shrug* Seems ok to me

Elec, Fire, Rad, and Water are a step above the rest but none of the rest are bad.

Edited by Knottewe
Hjarki

Hjarki

Posted
Posted
  On 4/15/2020 at 7:10 PM, nihilii said:

A ranged attack is just a melee attack that can hit runners in the back from far away.

Expand  

Most of the time, ranged attacks are lower damage. They're also more difficult to slot since Ranged sets tend to be inferior to Melee sets for most purposes.

 

Also, diversifying your attacks gives you a significant advantage in slotting since your three single target attacks can all use different attack types - and thus each can exploit the best set of their category rather than only having one attack with a strong set and the others with weaker ones.

nihilii

nihilii

Posted
Posted

I was being tongue in cheek, but still... "Ranged vs melee" doesn't have to figure in whether you use ranged attacks at range or in melee. Irradiate isn't significantly better than Fireball.

IMHO, there's two ways to approach range:

1) "I will use my attacks regardless of my distance to enemies". This turns range into an advantage, because you don't have to chase runners or be hugging whoever you target.

2) "I must stay at a certain distance, to get the most out of the damage tax I pay compared to melee". This turns range into a constraint, where you do your best to avoid melee range.

Regardless if you pick 1 or 2, your ranged attacks are going to deal the same damage. So I'd rather go with 1.

To look at it another way, it's irrelevant whether Knockout Blow outdamages Cosmic Burst. Melee archetypes don't get Poison.

25625

25625

Posted
Posted (edited)

I built a Poison/DP Def with a slightly different take.  I'm not such a proc master and am usually unwilling to give up set bonuses in most cases.  

 

I tend to use Chemical or Fire ammunition which changes Suppressive Fire to a hold.  Paralytic Poison + Suppressive Fire both are Mag 3 holds, combined they hold a boss.

 

With Support Core on, defenses are very nearly maxed.  I might switch Alpha to Agility to improve it just that little bit more.

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Antitoxin: Level 50 Science Defender
Primary Power Set: Poison
Secondary Power Set: Dual Pistols
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Envenom 
*  (A) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
*  (5) Analyze Weakness - Accuracy/Defense Debuff


Level 1: Pistols 
*  (A) Empty


Level 2: Weaken 
*  (A) Siphon Insight - ToHit Debuff
*  (15) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/ToHit Debuff
*  (45) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/Recharge
*  (46) Siphon Insight - ToHit Debuff/Endurance/Recharge
*  (46) Siphon Insight - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge
*  (46) Siphon Insight - Chance for +ToHit


Level 4: Empty Clips 
*  (A) Ragnarok - Damage
*  (7) Ragnarok - Damage/Recharge
*  (11) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
*  (11) Ragnarok - Accuracy/Recharge
*  (13) Ragnarok - Damage/Endurance


Level 6: Super Speed 
*  (A) Celerity - Endurance
*  (7) Celerity - +Stealth


Level 8: Maneuvers 
*  (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
*  (9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
*  (9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense


Level 10: Swap Ammo 
Level 12: Hasten 
*  (A) Recharge Reduction IO
*  (13) Recharge Reduction IO


Level 14: Tactics 
*  (A) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff/Endurance
*  (15) Adjusted Targeting - To Hit Buff


Level 16: Bullet Rain 
*  (A) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage
*  (17) Superior Vigilant Assault - Damage/RechargeTime
*  (17) Superior Vigilant Assault - Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
*  (19) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
*  (21) Superior Vigilant Assault - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/RechargeTime
*  (21) Superior Vigilant Assault - RechargeTime/PBAoE +Absorb


Level 18: Paralytic Poison 
*  (A) Lockdown - Accuracy/Hold
*  (19) Lockdown - Accuracy/Recharge
*  (48) Lockdown - Recharge/Hold
*  (50) Lockdown - Endurance/Recharge/Hold
*  (50) Lockdown - Accuracy/Endurance/Recharge/Hold
*  (50) Lockdown - Chance for +2 Mag Hold


Level 20: Kick 
*  (A) Empty


Level 22: Tough 
*  (A) Gladiator's Armor - TP Protection +3% Def (All)
*  (23) Gladiator's Armor - End/Resist
*  (23) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
*  (45) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/Endurance


Level 24: Weave 
*  (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed
*  (25) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
*  (25) Luck of the Gambler - Defense


Level 26: Poison Trap 
*  (A) Gladiator's Net - Chance of Damage(Lethal)
*  (27) Unbreakable Constraint - Chance for Smashing Damage
*  (27) Ghost Widow's Embrace - Chance of Damage(Psionic)
*  (29) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
*  (29) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage
*  (34) Fury of the Gladiator - Chance for Res Debuff


Level 28: Suppressive Fire 
*  (A) Absolute Amazement - Stun
*  (37) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Stun/Recharge
*  (40) Absolute Amazement - Accuracy/Recharge
*  (43) Absolute Amazement - Endurance/Stun
*  (45) Absolute Amazement - Chance for ToHit Debuff


Level 30: Executioner's Shot 
*  (A) Apocalypse - Damage
*  (31) Apocalypse - Damage/Recharge
*  (31) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
*  (31) Apocalypse - Accuracy/Recharge
*  (34) Apocalypse - Chance of Damage(Negative)
*  (34) Apocalypse - Damage/Endurance


Level 32: Venomous Gas 
*  (A) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff
*  (33) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge
*  (33) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Recharge/Endurance
*  (33) Dark Watcher's Despair - Recharge/Endurance
*  (48) Dark Watcher's Despair - To Hit Debuff/Endurance
*  (48) Dark Watcher's Despair - Chance for Recharge Slow


Level 35: Piercing Rounds 
*  (A) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage
*  (36) Superior Defender's Bastion - Damage/Recharge
*  (36) Superior Defender's Bastion - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
*  (36) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
*  (37) Superior Defender's Bastion - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
*  (37) Superior Defender's Bastion - Recharge/Chance for Minor PBAoE Heal


Level 38: Hail of Bullets 
*  (A) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage
*  (39) Superior Avalanche - Damage/Endurance
*  (39) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
*  (39) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
*  (40) Superior Avalanche - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
*  (40) Superior Avalanche - Recharge/Chance for Knockdown


Level 41: Dark Embrace 
*  (A) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance
*  (42) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance
*  (42) Unbreakable Guard - Endurance/RechargeTime
*  (42) Unbreakable Guard - RechargeTime/Resistance
*  (43) Unbreakable Guard - Resistance/Endurance/RechargeTime
*  (43) Unbreakable Guard - +Max HP


Level 44: Combat Jumping 
*  (A) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +5% Res (All)


Level 47: Super Jump 
*  (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points)


Level 49: Vengeance 
*  (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Increased Global Recharge Speed


Level 1: Brawl 
*  (A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Dash 
*  (A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Slide 
*  (A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Quick 
*  (A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Rush 
*  (A) Empty


Level 1: Prestige Power Surge 
*  (A) Empty


Level 1: Sprint 
*  (A) Empty


Level 1: Vigilance 
Level 2: Rest 
*  (A) Empty


Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift 
*  (A) Empty


Level 2: Health 
*  (A) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
*  (3) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
*  (3) Miracle - +Recovery


Level 2: Hurdle 
*  (A) Empty


Level 2: Stamina 
*  (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod
*  (5) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End


Level 10: Chemical Ammunition 
Level 10: Cryo Ammunition 
Level 10: Incendiary Ammunition 
Level 50: Support Core Embodiment 
Level 1: Quick Form 
Level 50: Intuition Radial Paragon 
Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
------------

Edited by 25625
Hjarki

Hjarki

Posted
Posted
  On 4/16/2020 at 7:29 AM, nihilii said:

I was being tongue in cheek, but still... "Ranged vs melee" doesn't have to figure in whether you use ranged attacks at range or in melee. Irradiate isn't significantly better than Fireball.

Expand  

I think you're missing what I'm trying to say. Being in melee is a cost applied to your build. It requires more comprehensive defenses than you'd otherwise need. But you only need to pay this cost once, no matter how many powers require it.

 

What I'm trying to point out is that Irradiate isn't significantly better than Fireball... and that's the issue. If you're going to pay the cost of using Venomous Gas, you want abilities that reward you for paying that cost. Those abilities are rare for Defenders/Corruptors/Masterminds but they exist for Controllers.

nihilii

nihilii

Posted
Posted

Using Venomous Gas rewards you with a -25% res debuff that doesn't cost you animation time. *shrug* I don't know, it seems pretty clear cut to me. -res is -res no matter if it's applied to a melee power, ranged attack or PBAoE. The damage increase is the same. The reward is the same.

I think sticking to "melee powerset goes best with melee powerset" severely restricts your choices for no reason and even keeps you away from some top performing combos. OK, Controllers can get Hot Feet and Seismic Smash. With these options, can they match the sheer damage i.e. Poison/Fire puts out? That's the question worth asking, in my opinion.

 

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