Purples should be removed from the AH

[Dz131]

22 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Then I suggest you return to those more successful games, as it appears that's what you really want.  Many of us in this "unsuccessful" game would not welcome such a change.

 

"But mom, all the other kids are doing it!" is never going to win arguments.

 

However "But boss, all the other companies are doing it!" wins tons of argument.  The difference being that companies spend much more resources on their decisions than any kid every will.  

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

1 hour ago, Dz131 said:

That's fine, it's just an idea to give the game longevity, and allows gearing up a character feel like more of a accomplishment.  

First off depending entirely on pure RNG to finish a character is not an accomplishment. Its just another form of virtual gambling.

 

Second, CoH dont need help in the longevity department one bit. While virtually every other MMO ever has struggled to beat the 5% mark when it came to player retention, CoH was a legend among MMO with a solid 20-25% retention rate unheard of among MMO. Know why? Because the game is just fun to play in a way so few others are. The exemplar/sidekicking system makes it so easy and painless to team up and enjoy every bit of content you favor over and over, and are never forced to run specific content for specific gear.

 

We often play finished toons with no need to chase the dragon of new BIS for them. Some are altaholics, some revel in a stable of completed characters and some are both to varying degrees.

 

Without a reason to use inf, and making reward merits basically be just for us, a great amount of the player inter active community would wither away. What value would costume contest and trivia contest hold if the inf we would offer as a reward would be basically useless? What good would sg storage of enhancements so we could share that which we dont need with any ally in need be beyond personal hoarding space?

 

Its very clear to me you have not thought out this idea beyond some silly reactionary feeling, and referencing D3 does nothing to buy you credit. Im a PoE for life ARPGer and have been since the day CoH was murdered by NC Suck. D3 is a souless abomination compared to the glory that is PoE. PoE doesnt use an AH but does allow trade. I rather revel in the live trade and bartering of Wraeclast. PoE is the true heir to the legacy of original Diablo and anyone who thinks anything and I mean any little thing done by blizzard with that so called game that is basically the best case for allowing post birth abortions for every single failure of a human that helped make that waste of programming hours, should likely just go back to D3 and leave us connoisseurs of gaming in peace.

 

I mean who the hell even makes a  suggestion like this? The winner of a tide pod challenge?

[Nanolathe]

4 minutes ago, Dz131 said:

I think if the game was still live this without a doubt had already happened.  The idea is to always add progression to a game.  The problem is that progression is currently too easy/non existent in HC.  Erasing purples would have been a pretty harsh fix, I agree.  The other options is to constantly churn out more 50+ content which is what happened on live but not very feasible here I think, or drastically limit the money supply so that in it self becomes the hurdle to going from fresh 50 to decked out in a heartbeat.

Just be removing the purple drops from the AH doesn't really do anything though. Grinding for drops or grinding for cash to buy the drops is still grinding. Removing them just makes the process longer.

[Dz131]

Just now, Nanolathe said:

Just be removing the purple drops from the AH doesn't really do anything though. Grinding for drops or grinding for cash to buy the drops is still grinding. Removing them just makes the process longer.

The same argument can be used for using cheats in a single player game to instantly have end game gear.  The longer road is usually the more fulfilling one.

[Rathulfr]

Just now, Naraka said:

And the answer would be the same: if you don't want the purple it's converted to, convert it to some other purple.  If the only reason you don't want a purple is on principle, why do you need an answer that conforms only to your principles?  At that point, you aren't even asking a question because you already know the answer.

Currently, if I don't want a purple, I can sell it for Inf to get something else I might want.  I have agency and control in that case: I get to decide how I use the purple, and at what time, without being at the mercy of a RNG.  That's not just opposing on principle.

 

[ArchVileTerror]

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/topic/17492-homecoming-server-update-april-5th-nemesis-plots-contests-and-progression/page/7/?tab=comments#comment-194882

 

I know some people are hooked on their endgames, but I think we may well have actually come to the point where it's time to reinvent the whole wheel.  Leave the original wheel available, though.  Add some more spokes when time allows.  

But (again) if the goal here is to add longevity, let's actually ADD some longevity.  The optimum IO Build will eventually be solved (and arguably already has).  The Incarnate Path is going to reach an end eventually.  Let's have something else in place before that happens.  And let's build this new thing up from the ground in such a way where we take the lessons learnt from the first wheel to heart.

 

Remember:  One person's "pride and accomplishment" is others' "tedious grind."  

I think Borderlands 2 had a good solution there.  Keep doing Achievements to gain progressive stat bonuses which suffer from diminishing returns, but have no actual cap (just an effective one).  Gives someone with that specific temperament a distant goal to strive toward, while also being front-loaded enough that the majority will not feel robbed by not having the time or demeanour to sit there focusing all their free time on that objective.

I'd go a step further and make it so that for every X increments achieved (ie: 10, factored) the character gets a Milestone Bonus worth X(modified).  Little steps which lead to a bigger step, giving a sense of "I made it to my personal best!"

 

How big is the floating point in this engine?

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

24 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Yes.

Bro the proper response is "Karate is for defense Daniel-San!"

[Nanolathe]

5 minutes ago, Dz131 said:

The same argument can be used for using cheats in a single player game to instantly have end game gear.  The longer road is usually the more fulfilling one.

Comparing single player content to an MMO is a stretch, but going along fro the ride;

 

The reason someone would "cheat" for end game content is to eliminate a part of the game they don't find fun. In this instance for COH, the way to "cheat" is grinding away at a farm for all the XP and INF you need to play end game TFs and Raids, right?

 

The only people who I can comfortably conceive wanting to skip the early game stuff is those people who it (early game) doesn't appeal to. So what's the harm in letting those that want to play the game (a specific part perhaps, but still engaging with the game) skip the content they don't want?

 

You can choose not to buy stuff on the AH you know? You can go in the Broadcast channel and shout about how you "earned" all your purples "the hard way".

Edited April 16, 2020 by Nanolathe

[Naraka]

3 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Currently, if I don't want a purple, I can sell it for Inf to get something else I might want.  I have agency and control in that case: I get to decide how I use the purple, and at what time, without being at the mercy of a RNG.  That's not just opposing on principle.

 

Don't give me that BS about agency and control.  If this were another game and they gave you a reward that you cannot use or sell, what option do you have?  In the context of the suggested change, someone asks what could they do in this circumstance ("What do you suggest people do with purple drops they get that they cannot use?  Delete them?") and I answered.  You throwing personal ideals and principles in the mix isn't in the context of the question because I don't give a fuck if you don't want a purple.

Edited April 16, 2020 by Naraka

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

4 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

Currently, if I don't want a purple, I can sell it for Inf to get something else I might want.  I have agency and control in that case: I get to decide how I use the purple, and at what time, without being at the mercy of a RNG.  That's not just opposing on principle.

 

Hell sometimes when I get a purple I dont need, I just straight up do a looky loo around Atlas and if I see a lowbie with a bio that I like I reward them with a drive by gift they likely wont even have a clue where it came from. Its fun being a secret Santa.

[Rathulfr]

11 minutes ago, Dz131 said:

However "But boss, all the other companies are doing it!" wins tons of argument.  The difference being that companies spend much more resources on their decisions than any kid every will.  

Having worked in IT for large enterprises for almost 30 years, I can confirm that this is true.  But I can also confirm that it's often the worst rationale for basing decisions, alone.  I spend a lot of time explaining to execs that yes, while other companies do it, that doesn't mean that it's best for this one.  Which is precisely the same reply my mom gave me when I was I kid.

[Rathulfr]

2 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Don't give me that BS about agency and control.  If this were another game and they gave you a reward that you cannot use or sell, what option do you have?  In the context of the suggested change, someone asks what could they do in this circumstance ("What do you suggest people do with purple drops they get that they cannot use?  Delete them?") and I answered.  You throwing personal ideals and principles in the mix isn't in the context of the question because I don't give a fuck if you don't want a purple.

And thank you for proving my point in clear text.

 

[Rathulfr]

2 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

Hell sometimes when I get a purple I dont need, I just straight up do a looky loo around Atlas and if I see a lowbie with a bio that I like I reward them with a drive by gift they likely wont even have a clue where it came from. Its fun being a secret Santa.

If we make purples account-bound, as proposed by the OP, then you wouldn't even be able to do that.

[Naraka]

1 minute ago, Rathulfr said:

And thank you for proving my point in clear text.

 

That you're rather dense and I had to break my response down to "Yes, I don't care what Rathulfr thinks because I'm not talking about Rathulfr"? Sure.  I suppose it's rude of me to need to break it down that far but you asked for it.  I literally was answering the question being asked.  I suppose you feel proud now?

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

6 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

If we make purples account-bound, as proposed by the OP, then you wouldn't even be able to do that.

Yeah, and wouldnt that just lesson us as a community? Just like taking away the joy of winning a CC and getting a nice reward of inf or a purple set that we as a community have long done?

[Rathulfr]

8 minutes ago, Naraka said:

That you're rather dense and I had to break my response down to "Yes, I don't care what Rathulfr thinks because I'm not talking about Rathulfr"? Sure.  I suppose it's rude of me to need to break it down that far but you asked for it.  I literally was answering the question being asked.  I suppose you feel proud now?

Not really.  I'm sure I'm not the only one who feels the same way: we all operate from self-interest.  I want what I want, and you want what you want.  It's just basic human nature.  The trouble comes when we start pushing our wants to the point of violating someone else's wants.  "I dont' give a [expletive] if you... (etc.)"

 

If the situation were reversed, and CoH already made all purples account bound, and I came along and said, "I suggest that we allow all purples to be sold on the AH," then the burden of proof would be on me to convince everyone to sacrifice what they want for what I want.  But that's not the case here.  The OP and you are arguing for a change to the way things are, so the burden of proof is on you to convince me and everyone else why we should give up what we want for what you want.

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Rathulfr
pronoun trouble

[Naraka]

2 minutes ago, Rathulfr said:

The OP and you are arguing for a change to the way things are, so the burden of proof is on you to convince me and everyone else why we should give up what we want for what you want.

 

And the bolded underlined section is where you need to stop.

 

I am not arguing for anything.  At best, you could say I'm just a neutral individual who sees the changes in the vacuum it's in and responding as such.  I don't have to prove anything, I just have to explain the truths.  If a purple drops that you don't want and the game dictated that you cannot sell it but you can convert it, then that is what you do with it.  You have the option to delete it as well as keep it and use it on an alt if they are account bound.

 

I feel it's good to have some neutrality when people are making suggestions on several principles:

1. The likelihood of a suggestion going through is little not none so talking about stuff is harmless.
2. When you start picking sides, you get defensive and make irrational arguments ("What do I do with purples I don't want? d3LeTe TH3m!?!?"...that's an irrational response.  "I should always be able to do exactly what I want to do without constraints all the time!!" is also irrational).
3. It's possible you could learn something or come up with an even better idea if you actually consider things rather than merely reject things.

I'm not arguing for or against anything but a lot of you people are just way to triggered to think straight.

[SwitchFade]

3 hours ago, Dz131 said:

The only way to get them should be through drops.  

What a terrible idea.

[macskull]

20 minutes ago, Naraka said:

I'm not arguing for or against anything but a lot of you people are just way to triggered to think straight.

I don't think the poster you're replying to is one of those people.

[SwitchFade]

3 hours ago, Dz131 said:

The only way to get them should be through drops.  

I'm gonna have to post twice and take this past jranger to Texas ranger with a...

 

/Jwalker

[Lockpick]

3 hours ago, Dz131 said:

The only way to get them should be through drops.  

/jranger

[Caulderone]

3 hours ago, Dz131 said:

The only way to get them should be through drops.  

/jranger here, too

[krj12]

 

Eliminating purples is not going to give the game longevity, unless you think running a million radios to get a few drops is what people want to do.

Longevity comes from adding new content and new powersets.

 

I vote no on this idea.

 

 

[Alchemystic]

Why is it that when a topic is 'hot' I feel as thought it should be followed by the word 'garbage' too.

 

Seriously what gives.

 

Edited April 16, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Widower]

6 minutes ago, Tyrannical said:

Why is it that when a topic is 'hot' I feel as thought it should be followed by the word 'garbage' too.

 

Seriously what gives.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

Anyway, please be kind to those who disagree with you.