I just can't leave well enough alone. [Inv/EM]

[kenlon]

My last build was centered around making a soft-capped tank that wouldn't need the Fighting pool for anything. I managed it. The problem is, the psi hole I ended up with is really, really annoying, so it's time to invest a pile of inf into making him a build that addresses that. And I get AlmostPermaHasten, too, which is nice. 

 

With one mob in Invincibility, I have defense numbers of:

45.9% S/L

46.5% F/C

44.7% E/N

22.9% Psi

28.6% Melee

24.2% Ranged 

25.1% AoE

 

And my resists, with no procs going:

90.09% S/L

69.3% F/C

44.1% E/N

54.3% Toxic - 48.3 in Mid's

43% Psi - 37% in Mid's.

This is because Mid's won't allow me to allocate a sixth slot to Ball Lightning, thus preventing me from actually having the Ragnarock 6-slot bonus in the builder, but there's an unallocated slot. I'm not entirely happy about the weaker E/N resists, but I've not found a slotting that addresses it well without losing out on the Psi survivability that is the point of this build. 

 

General things:

Hasten has a 130s cooldown - I haven't done the math, but as long as I smack Ageless on cooldown, it should be up all the time.

I slapped Hecatomb in Total Focus as opposed to another attack because I want to use the proc to help shore it up into being less terrible, because I want to actually use the power, not skip it. 

 

Anyone have input? Did I miss anything obvious in my slotting? I've been tweaking and moving slots around, mostly in my defense powers, so I may have missed something and more sets of eyes would be helpful.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Possible Future Ohm: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), ImpArm-ResPsi(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Resist Physical Damage -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(5)
Level 4: Dull Pain -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(11), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(13), Prv-Heal/Rchg(13), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(15), Prv-Absorb%(15)
Level 6: Resist Elements -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), Ags-ResDam(17), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(17)
Level 8: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19)
Level 10: Bone Smasher -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(23)
Level 12: Resist Energies -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam(25), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(25)
Level 14: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(31)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(37)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(33), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(33), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 24: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(34), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(34), Rct-ResDam%(34), Rct-Def(36)
Level 28: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(36), GssSynFr--Build%(36)
Level 30: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 35: Energy Transfer -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(40)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(40), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Rchg(42), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Hct-Dam%(43)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(43), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Mu Lightning -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(46)
Level 47: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(48), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(7), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), NmnCnv-Heal(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), PrfShf-EndMod(9), PrfShf-End%(11)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Reactive Core Flawless Interface 
------------

 

Edited April 17, 2020 by kenlon

[Caulderone]

30 minutes ago, kenlon said:

This is because Mid's won't allow me to allocate a sixth slot to Ball Lightning, thus preventing me from actually having the Ragnarock 6-slot bonus in the builder, but there's an unallocated slot.

I've been posting the fix for this a lot lately.

 

You have one level 46 slot open.  Place it in a placeholder power, say Swift.  Now drag the level 46 slot over one of the higher level slots in BL.

Now, you have a higher level slot in Swift and the level 46 slot (grayed out) in BL.  Now, remove the slot from Swift and place it in BL.

 

The lower level slot will be grayed out in BL, but it will work normally.

[kenlon]

1 minute ago, Caulderone said:

I've been posting the fix for this a lot lately.

 

I did actually see you mention it elsewhere, but I was too lazy. 😄

[Camel]

On 4/17/2020 at 6:06 PM, Caulderone said:

I've been posting the fix for this a lot lately.

 

You have one level 46 slot open.  Place it in a placeholder power, say Swift.  Now drag the level 46 slot over one of the higher level slots in BL.

Now, you have a higher level slot in Swift and the level 46 slot (grayed out) in BL.  Now, remove the slot from Swift and place it in BL.

 

The lower level slot will be grayed out in BL, but it will work normally.

Why can’t they just fix the code to actually make dynamic level up..... dynamic? So you can place your slots wherever the heck you want as long as you slot within the maximum number allowed? I’ve only take introductory courses in code, so my knowledge is theoretical and not practical, but it seems like it would be an easy fix. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[Caulderone]

4 minutes ago, Camel said:

Why can’t they just fix the code to actually make dynamic level up..... dynamic? So you can place your slots wherever the heck you want as long as you slot within the maximum number allowed? I’ve only take introductory courses in code, so my knowledge is theoretical and not practical, but it seems like it would be an easy fix. 🤷🏼‍♂️

The Mids code is old and not at all simple.  What that would require would almost certainly be a literal complete recoding of the App.

It isn't going to happen.

 

There is at least one new App in development.  Maybe it will allow that.

[Troo]

First, don't trust Mids.

Second, just switch hasten to SJ or Taunt spot. (drag and drop)

[Hyperstrike]

First thing I notice.
You're saying you can't put a 6th slot in Ball Lightning.
That's because you took it at L47 and you have 3 slots in Hasten.
And no, 130 seconds isn't "almost permahasten" any more than poking you in the nose is "almost poking your eye out".
The third slot essentially a waste.

Here's a rework.  Pre-Enhancement Boosters.
I've pulled Maneuvers.  You simply don't need it.

With ZERO enemies in range:
Defense  With/Without Hover
55.9 - S/L - 52.5
48.8 - E/N - 45.5

60 - F/C - 56.6
21.4 - Psi - 18

Resists (Please notice Tough is turned OFF because you are just using it as a set mule)
90% - S/L
58.9 - E/N
76.1 - F/C
52.1 - Tox
20.7 - Psi

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Who's The Master: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Resist Physical Damage -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(3), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(3), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(5), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(5), GldArm-3defTpProc:50(7)
Level 1: Barrage -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(7), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(9), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(9), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(11), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%:50(11)
Level 2: Temp Invulnerability -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(13), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(13), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(15)
Level 4: Bone Smasher -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg:50(19), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(19), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(21), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb:50(23)
Level 6: Dull Pain -- DctWnd-Heal/Rchg:50(A), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg:50(23), Pnc-Heal/Rchg:50(25)
Level 8: Resist Elements -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(25), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(27), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(27)
Level 10: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%:50(A)
Level 12: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(29), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(29), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31)
Level 14: Resist Energies -- RctArm-ResDam:40(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx:40(31), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg:40(31), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:40(33)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(34), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc:50(34)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(36), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP:50(36), Rct-ResDam%:50(36)
Level 20: Kick -- FrcFdb-Rechg%:50(A)
Level 22: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam:50(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx:50(37), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam:50(37), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(37)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(39)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(39)
Level 28: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(39)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A), LucoftheG-Def:50(40)
Level 32: Hover -- LucoftheG-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 35: Energy Transfer -- OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg:50(A), OvrFrc-End/Rech:50(40), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End:50(40), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech:50(42), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech:50(42)
Level 38: Total Focus -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(43), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(43), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(43), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(45)
Level 41: Mu Lightning -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg:50(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(46), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(46), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc:50(46)
Level 44: Ball Lightning -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(50), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc:50(50)
Level 47: Fly -- WntGif-ResSlow:50(A)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Clr-Stlth:50(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End:50(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+:50(15), Mrc-Rcvry+:40(17)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(17)
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
------------

 

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[Bopper]

On 4/17/2020 at 3:32 PM, kenlon said:

Hasten has a 130s cooldown - I haven't done the math, but as long as I smack Ageless on cooldown, it should be up all the time.

I did the math (albeit with just a basic calculator, so I hope this is right). If I recall, Ageless does 10s of 40%, 30s of 10%, 60s of 10%, and 120s of 10%. Add and multiply that all together 10*0.4+30*0.1+60*0.1+120*0.1 = 4 + 3 + 6 + 12 = 25s. This means, over the full 120 seconds that Ageless is up, it will reduce the base cooldown of a power by 25s. That's not useful normally, as most powers will recharge well within the two minutes that Ageless is up, so they never get the full effects of that 25s reduction. However, Hasten has a base recharge of 450s, so it does apply.

 

You mentioned the cooldown of Hasten shows to be 130s, this implies the current recharge in Hasten is 450/130 = 346.15%. So what I need to know is if that amount of recharge would reduce Hasten's cooldown to 120s or less if we apply the 25s reduction for Ageless to Hasten. We solve that by dividing 425s by 346.15%, or if I want to show all my work, it means:

(450-25) / (450/130) = 425 * 130/450 = 122.777 seconds. So not quite perma, but close enough you won't care.

[Carnifax]

6 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

You're saying you can't put a 6th slot in Ball Lightning.
That's because you took it at L47 and you have 3 slots in Hasten.
And no, 130 seconds isn't "almost permahasten" any more than poking you in the nose is "almost poking your eye out".
The third slot essentially a waste.

If you're trying to do a "respec build" in Mids and are flailing at your level 47 / 49 powers not allowing you to stick 6 things in there you can drag-swap the power to a lower tier, slot it up and drag it back. 

 

Mids has settings for "what do I do if a Slot or Power is 'illegal'" in Options > Configuration > Drag and Drop which you may need to set the Actions to "Allow to be moved (mark as invalid)"

 

 

[Hyperstrike]

6 hours ago, Bopper said:

I did the math (albeit with just a basic calculator, so I hope this is right). If I recall, Ageless does 10s of 40%, 30s of 10%, 60s of 10%, and 120s of 10%. Add and multiply that all together 10*0.4+30*0.1+60*0.1+120*0.1 = 4 + 3 + 6 + 12 = 25s. This means, over the full 120 seconds that Ageless is up, it will reduce the base cooldown of a power by 25s. That's not useful normally, as most powers will recharge well within the two minutes that Ageless is up, so they never get the full effects of that 25s reduction. However, Hasten has a base recharge of 450s, so it does apply.

 

You mentioned the cooldown of Hasten shows to be 130s, this implies the current recharge in Hasten is 450/130 = 346.15%. So what I need to know is if that amount of recharge would reduce Hasten's cooldown to 120s or less if we apply the 25s reduction for Ageless to Hasten. We solve that by dividing 425s by 346.15%, or if I want to show all my work, it means:

(450-25) / (450/130) = 425 * 130/450 = 122.777 seconds. So not quite perma, but close enough you won't care.

You need about 161%-161.5% with 2 Recharges
With 3, 152.5%

I don't really count extra clickies.  Because it only works if you remember to click on schedule.  Most won't.

[Bopper]

3 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

You need about 161%-161.5% with 2 Recharges
With 3, 152.5%

I don't really count extra clickies.  Because it only works if you remember to click on schedule.  Most won't.

I use so many 120s powers that I anchor what I do to my destiny cooling down. It's tedious for sure

[kenlon]

23 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

You're saying you can't put a 6th slot in Ball Lightning.
That's because you took it at L47 and you have 3 slots in Hasten.

No, that's because Mid's holds to the old rules around power slotting, and I couldn't remember the workaround off the top of my head so I didn't put the sixth slot there in the posted build. It's there in game and has been the whole time.😄 

 

23 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

And no, 130 seconds isn't "almost permahasten" any more than poking you in the nose is "almost poking your eye out".

I refer you to Bopper's mathposting. It's close enough that I barely notice hasten downtime. I mostly ended up with it in Hasten because there wasn't anywhere else more useful to me - I could have put it as a fourth slot in Weave and picked up a 9% accuracy bonus (I notice your build is *way* short on accuracy, not being able to hit +4s at 100% without the incarnate level shift, which is no bueno, IMO) but it wasn't really compelling.

 

23 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

With ZERO enemies in range:
Defense  With/Without Hover
55.9 - S/L - 52.5
48.8 - E/N - 45.5

60 - F/C - 56.6
21.4 - Psi - 18

Resists (Please notice Tough is turned OFF because you are just using it as a set mule)
90% - S/L
58.9 - E/N
76.1 - F/C
52.1 - Tox
20.7 - Psi

I mean, there's nothing wrong with your build here, but it explicitly goes against why I said I made the build I did. The one you posted would put me back to having the psi-hole that I wanted to get away from, and would drop my damage, regen/max-hp and effective end recovery in order to get more defense that I don't actually need. Having the higher regen on top of the higher psi resist has made such a difference when fighting psi enemies that I've been very happy with my posted build. (Though, admittedly, your significantly higher Melee and AoE defense may cover for that psi weakness, so that's something to consider.)

Given that tanks, even after the buffs, still need all the damage they can get, losing out on Musculature in favor of Agility and *still* not getting permahasten out of it sounds like a bad trade. I also question your attack slotting a bit, but that's easily swapped around.

 

Also, I'm never taking Hover on a melee character because I don't like wanting to scoop someone's eyes out with a spoon which is what using flight in melee does to me. (Let's be honest here, Super Jump kicks every other travel power's butt, anyway.)

[Hyperstrike]

29 minutes ago, kenlon said:

 I also question your attack slotting a bit, but that's easily swapped around.

That's fine.  The slotting is just basically drop-in, and can be shuffled for best effect.

[Golden Azrael]

Yeah, but is Energy Melee damaging with the tank changes? 😉

 

Decent soft capping and res' builds above.

 

Azrael.

[kenlon]

Oh, EM still sucks, it just sucks less than it did. This guy was my first 50 on live, so there's no way I'm going to stop playing this combo. 😄

[marcussmythe]

My old main on live was Invuln/EM, Kenlon.  I may steal your build and use as a basis for making her live again.

 

[Golden Azrael]

On 5/10/2020 at 3:44 PM, kenlon said:

Oh, EM still sucks, it just sucks less than it did. This guy was my first 50 on live, so there's no way I'm going to stop playing this combo. 😄

*nods.

There is something compelling about the 'meaty pom poms' of Invul/En combo.  Lots of lovely auras and glo' fists.

 

And yes.  Packs a meaty punch on ET and TF.    But when I tried the O.T.T Titan Weapons and then tried an E Melee tank after?  EM felt very dated or like it needed to be 'more so.'

 

For me.  My Ice/Ice/Ice came out reasonably well after the tank chances and the improvement to Ice Melee's AoE damage.  Sure.  No fire tanker...but far improved.

 

Invul/EM.  Still feels like it needs to be 'more so.'  Even after the chances.  One of the things I did was roll an EM/Invul' with the fantasy (at least in my own mind..) that I could pretend I was a tank.  (Yeah...surrounded by a move of 5 and taking damage like you wouldn't believe...at L38...)  But the BU and damage on the 'meaty' punches with the fury mech' feels like what it should be on a tank.  I guess if I rolled an IO build with resistances (lots of them...) then I could pretend 'some more.'

 

Just out of curiosity, Kenlon, what is EM missing?  More dam?  A better attack chain for Tiers 1-4?

 

If Energy doubled it's damage it may appease me somewhat.  I'm a huge advocate of all tanking classes getting BU replaced with a 'Rage' button.

 

So brutes get Fury.  We get 'Rage.'

 

It would greatly boost the old ice/stone/energy sets instead of having to tinker with them on an individual bases.

 

Azrael.

 

PS.  I did get an Invul/EM to L50 on live.  After several 'play it and leave it' attempts.  'Let's get this to L50...'  And it didn't disappoint.  Might defense and attack, I thought.  Def' capped within one mob.  Great res'.  It was just needing a bit more damage...

Edited May 15, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[kenlon]

1 hour ago, Golden Azrael said:

Just out of curiosity, Kenlon, what is EM missing?  More dam?  A better attack chain for Tiers 1-4?

It's got the worst AoE damage of all tanker sets, and the second worst ST, IIRC. (Pretty sure Ice Melee is worse at ST damage, but is in the upper half of sets on AoE.). The secondary disorient effect on EM is pretty nearly useless, and the Stun power is completely useless. Energy Transfer is pretty slow, but at least hits for decent damage, while Total Focus both takes forever and hits like a wet noodle (in terms of DPA). It's effectively no better than the T1-3 attacks. 

 

It needs some or all of:

• A new secondary effect
• Animation changes.
• Increase in damage.
• A better AoE.

Personally, I'd like to see it continue to have lousy AoE, but be taken up to be one of the top performing ST sets (excluding Titan Weapons, because that shit needs it's own rebalance pass.)

 

2 hours ago, Golden Azrael said:

I'm a huge advocate of all tanking classes getting BU replaced with a 'Rage' button.

That's a terrible idea. The old sets deserve to actually be addressed and rebuilt to the point they are comparable to the later designed sets, not just slap a half-assed bandaid on them and call it good. 

[kenlon]

2 hours ago, marcussmythe said:

My old main on live was Invuln/EM, Kenlon.  I may steal your build and use as a basis for making her live again.

It's been an excellent build. I can take on villain groups that used to require eating inspirations by the bucket with no problem, and the damage is passable.

 

(Doubleposting because I can't insert a quote when editing a post because there's no plain text forum editor so I can't copy and paste the quote in. And that's terrible. *cough*)

 

[Golden Azrael]

19 hours ago, kenlon said:

It's got the worst AoE damage of all tanker sets, and the second worst ST, IIRC. (Pretty sure Ice Melee is worse at ST damage, but is in the upper half of sets on AoE.). The secondary disorient effect on EM is pretty nearly useless, and the Stun power is completely useless. Energy Transfer is pretty slow, but at least hits for decent damage, while Total Focus both takes forever and hits like a wet noodle (in terms of DPA). It's effectively no better than the T1-3 attacks. 

 

It needs some or all of:

• A new secondary effect
• Animation changes.
• Increase in damage.
• A better AoE.

Personally, I'd like to see it continue to have lousy AoE, but be taken up to be one of the top performing ST sets (excluding Titan Weapons, because that shit needs it's own rebalance pass.)

 

That's a terrible idea. The old sets deserve to actually be addressed and rebuilt to the point they are comparable to the later designed sets, not just slap a half-assed bandaid on them and call it good. 

I'm ok with tanks hitting 'slow' if they hit harder.  Time vs Damage is the underlying coh formula.  But if they don't hit harder (EM being a single specialist...) then what you get is mediocre. 

 

You're right about Energy having terrible AoE damage.  Whirling Hands and BU with Perma Hasten is about as good as it gets pre Incarnate.  And even with taking Musculature and Assault I couldn't say I was 'wowed' by it on Beta.

 

I'm ok with sun as a 2ndary effect.  That's handy.  And kind of funny.

Animation changes.  EM was changed from the original to the pom poms.  I don't mind the pom poms but it does take a while but it does hit hard.

Increase in damage.  I agree there.  If you're single target and slow.  You have to hit harder.  Especially when 'super athlete' IO AoE builds melt whole mobs whilst you're stood mid-air 'Totally Focusing.'

Better AoE.  I'd take the 'Stun' power and allow it to be applied to a whole mob with superior damage.  EM then gets a 2nd AoE power...it stuns but it also knocks the mob senseless damage wise.

 

In time, the devs will 'tweak' all the glaring problems of all the traditional sets.  (eg.  Dark Melee's very thin cone on Sands of Mu.)  There will be set 'noodling' (tweaking) but I don't see fundamental redesigns as they will lose their charm which Stone, Energy and Ice have.

 

They're lacking damage.  Most people prefer to play a brute for that reason.  Not only do brutes get the fury mechanism but they get BU as well.  If you're a SS brute you get Rage on top of that.

 

The tank doesn't get the Fury mechanism.  But the recent 'basic pass' of the Tank AT patch certainly addressed fundamental flaws of the tank ie.  Making AoE and taunt even more so.  Improving the melee flat rate of damage.

 

As for the 'Rage' button.  I have it in my mind that it works like Domination, you build up melee hits until your 'rage' buttons tingles and boom.  I do think all tanks should have it instead of just SS set.  That would fundamentally address the 'hard work' of the tier 1-3s and the 'big hitters' that don't hit hard enough.  That doesn't mean there aren't 'some' problems with most sets.

 

For the record, the fury mechanism seemed originally intended for Tanks just as Defiance was for blasters.  Or domi bar for dominators.

 

The sets do stand some tweaking.  eg.  Stun being the obligatory useless power in the set.  So it being repurposed as a damaging mob stun...?  Is just one idea.  Ice melee has a 'Greater' (in name only) Ice Sword which I dropped on my built as AoE damage whole sale was more profitable.  Stone hammers are great animation wise.  But they're not the 'final statement' they could be with a bit of 'Rage' behind them.

 

Rebuilding sets like Stone/Energy/Ice would be a 'terrible' idea.  They're generally fine as they are.  But they'd stand some tweaking here and there.

 

Everybody has their own idea of what 'perfection' looks like.  As witnessed by the tanker thread.

 

Ice/stone/energy need some set love.  From animation times to repurposing the 'useless' power whilst not losing the spirit of the original sets which play very nicely.  eg.  If 'Greater' Ice Sword had 'great' damage I'd chose it.  If 'Stun' from EM had superior damage with an AoE component?  I'd take it.  If TFocus hit like a truck I'd use it more.  If ETransfer was a bit quicker it would add more zest to combat.  Stone melee isn't that far away.  But a rage boosted flurry of damage boosted combat would make using those hammers even more fun.

 

Having a nice 'killer' damage mechanism is something even Captain Powerhouse has muted (though shelved for now.)

 

Tiers 1-3 on tanks can be a touch plodding...as you don't get to build up a head of steam to access 'superior' sustained damage aka like Brutes.  The last tank I knew rolled a tank but because it 'didn't do enough damage' he went for the brute version.

 

One thing at a time.

 

Azrael.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

21 hours ago, marcussmythe said:

My old main on live was Invuln/EM, Kenlon.  I may steal your build and use as a basis for making her live again.

 

i25.  Just create higher difficulty levels for Incarnate rollers.  That way you can make mission content like Incarnate trials.

 

TO-DO-SOs are the pick up and play standard.  IOs are secret knowledge by comparison.  Far more arcane.  Not something you'd balance the game against.

 

I'm glad they democratised Snipe from behind the IO pay wall.

 

Azrael.

[tidge]

19 hours ago, kenlon said:

(Doubleposting because I can't insert a quote when editing a post because there's no plain text forum editor so I can't copy and paste the quote in. And that's terrible. *cough*)

 

After you start to edit, Use the '+' sign (as if multi-quoting) and then insert the new quote.

[11Troy11]

On 4/17/2020 at 3:32 PM, kenlon said:

My last build was centered around making a soft-capped tank that wouldn't need the Fighting pool for anything. I managed it. The problem is, the psi hole I ended up with is really, really annoying, so it's time to invest a pile of inf into making him a build that addresses that. And I get AlmostPermaHasten, too, which is nice. 

 

With one mob in Invincibility, I have defense numbers of:

45.9% S/L

46.5% F/C

44.7% E/N

22.9% Psi

28.6% Melee

24.2% Ranged 

25.1% AoE

 

And my resists, with no procs going:

90.09% S/L

69.3% F/C

44.1% E/N

54.3% Toxic - 48.3 in Mid's

43% Psi - 37% in Mid's.

This is because Mid's won't allow me to allocate a sixth slot to Ball Lightning, thus preventing me from actually having the Ragnarock 6-slot bonus in the builder, but there's an unallocated slot. I'm not entirely happy about the weaker E/N resists, but I've not found a slotting that addresses it well without losing out on the Psi survivability that is the point of this build. 

 

General things:

Hasten has a 130s cooldown - I haven't done the math, but as long as I smack Ageless on cooldown, it should be up all the time.

I slapped Hecatomb in Total Focus as opposed to another attack because I want to use the proc to help shore it up into being less terrible, because I want to actually use the power, not skip it. 

 

Anyone have input? Did I miss anything obvious in my slotting? I've been tweaking and moving slots around, mostly in my defense powers, so I may have missed something and more sets of eyes would be helpful.

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Possible Future Ohm: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Invulnerability
Secondary Power Set: Energy Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Temp Invulnerability -- RctArm-ResDam(A), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(3), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(3), ImpArm-ResPsi(5)
Level 1: Barrage -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Resist Physical Damage -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), StdPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(5)
Level 4: Dull Pain -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(11), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(13), Prv-Heal/Rchg(13), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(15), Prv-Absorb%(15)
Level 6: Resist Elements -- Ags-Psi/Status(A), Ags-ResDam(17), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(17)
Level 8: Unyielding -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(19), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(19)
Level 10: Bone Smasher -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(23)
Level 12: Resist Energies -- ImpArm-ResPsi(A), ImpArm-ResDam(25), ImpArm-ResDam/EndRdx(25)
Level 14: Taunt -- PrfZng-Dam%(A)
Level 16: Whirling Hands -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(31)
Level 18: Invincibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(31), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(37)
Level 20: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(33), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(33), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 22: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 24: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Tough Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(34), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(34), Rct-ResDam%(34), Rct-Def(36)
Level 28: Build Up -- HO:Membr(A), HO:Membr(36), GssSynFr--Build%(36)
Level 30: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37)
Level 35: Energy Transfer -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(40)
Level 38: Total Focus -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(40), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Rchg(42), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Hct-Dam%(43)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(43), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Mu Lightning -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(46)
Level 47: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(48), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal-I(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(7), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), NmnCnv-Heal(9)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), PrfShf-EndMod(9), PrfShf-End%(11)
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Reactive Core Flawless Interface 
------------
 

 

 

 

How big is the pile?