Swap ammo - when and why?

[thunderforce]

I've made a DP/Sonic corruptor, and just respecced into Swap Ammo at 18 because it seems kind of a pity not to have it. But when and why should it be used? I hope it's not just a matter of memorising a vast list of who's weak against what.

 

Chemical's -damage and Ice's -Defense seem like good things to have when I'm trying to pretend to be a defender and keep people alive, but which? Fire's DoT... eh, I'd rather do damage up front, but perhaps I'm missing something. And how do I deal with Suppressive Fire not knowing if it's a stun or a hold (should I always be using an ammo type so it's always a hold? Just stuff it full of procs and accuracy?)

 

I'd appreciate any advice you can give me.

[Apparition]

You definitely want Swap Ammo.  It's the bread and butter of Dual Pistols.

 

Dual Pistols does a lot more damage with Incendiary rounds than with standard.

 

If my team is light on support (or if it has none), then I use Chemical rounds for the -dmg debuff.  If I'm doing something where I expect a lot of ambushes (hello Praetoria), then switch to Cryo rounds for the slows.  Anything else, use Incendiary rounds.

 

I never use standard rounds after getting Swap Ammo.

[Mr. Vee]

I just leave mine on chemical all the time on my poison/dp but having it for switching situationally is secondary. Getting out of the standard rounds is the main thing.

[Bopper]

Swap Ammo is great. For one, it gets rid of the knockback from your Standard Ammo. Incendiary Ammo is nice as it will increase the damage of your attacks by roughly 20-25%. Chemical Ammo is great for its -damage debuff. Cryo, I rarely use but that is likely because I am a Time/DP defender, and Time has me capping the slows of my enemies already.

 

The only reason to ever use Standard Rounds is for the resistance debuff from Piercing Rounds. But I only take Piercing Rounds as a set mule, it's animation is painfully slow (but cool).

[thunderforce]

2 hours ago, Apparition said:

Dual Pistols does a lot more damage with Incendiary rounds than with standard.

Aha. On looking in Mids, am I right in thinking the DoT from fire is just gravy - as in, the upfront damage is (modulo resistances) no less than with other rounds, and the DoT's just a bonus?

1 hour ago, Bopper said:

Swap Ammo is great. For one, it gets rid of the knockback from your Standard Ammo

I often team with friends where we have a general agreement that knockback is hilariously awesome and there should be more of it, but that's handy to know, thanks. 🙂

[Bopper]

2 minutes ago, thunderforce said:

. On looking in Mids, am I right in thinking the DoT from fire is just gravy - as in, the upfront damage is (modulo resistances) no less than with other rounds, and the DoT's just a bonus?

All the base damage is the same between ammos, with each doing a different secondary effect. The secondary effect for incendiary is a fire DoT, so yes it's gravy but again you get no other secondary effects.

 

The fire DoTs are cancel on miss with each tick having an 80% probability to fire, and there is a limit to how many ticks you can get based on the attack. So Hail of bullets can have up to 5, Executioners shot can have up to 4, and pistols can have up to 3. The amount of damage from each tick can also scale based on the attack. You'll see that info in mids

[Crysis]

The DOT from Incendiary rounds seems to stack well with Scourge.

 

And some foes are weak to certain damage types more than others. But you’ll notice that as you level and if your bullets don’t appear to be doing as much damage as usual, try swapping to a different type.

 

In general though, Negative is the least resisted damage type in the game, with Fire the next on list.  Toxic is the MOST resisted damage type in the game.  So unless what you are fighting is specifically resistant to Fire, you really have little reason to use the other types of ammo pretty much ever.

 

Good info here:

 

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by Crysis

[oldskool]

7 hours ago, thunderforce said:

Aha. On looking in Mids, am I right in thinking the DoT from fire is just gravy - as in, the upfront damage is (modulo resistances) no less than with other rounds, and the DoT's just a bonus?

I often team with friends where we have a general agreement that knockback is hilariously awesome and there should be more of it, but that's handy to know, thanks. 🙂

In a very simple way of looking at yes, the DoT is gravy and the general numbers of the base damage remain the same.  The DoT duration is also very short.  So its more like additional damage on a small delay.  I think Piercing Rounds has one of the longest versions of the DoT at 3 seconds.  That number may not be exact, but it is most certainly shorter than you can get the cooldown of the power to be in a practical build.  That does also ignore the fact that the split damage type when running an ammo power will check against a different resistance with the potential to grant you more damage overall to susceptible enemies. 

 

9 hours ago, thunderforce said:

And how do I deal with Suppressive Fire not knowing if it's a stun or a hold (should I always be using an ammo type so it's always a hold? Just stuff it full of procs and accuracy?)

Suppressive Fire is always a hold when running any of the elemental ammo powers.  Suppresive Fire's default mode is stun when no ammo powers are active.  That's it. Easy peasy.  

Suppressive Fire doesn't gain many of the other perks from the ammo system either.  It doesn't gain a DoT with fire ammo, for example.  Suppressive Fire is unique though that its modular damage ratio is different from most of the set.  The elemental damage ratio is about 50/50.  Suppressive Fire is a fine hold power on non-Sentinels and can be jury-rigged into a damage power with procs for non-Sentinels.  For Sentinels, Suppressive Fire's hold/stun durations are dramatically reduced and the power overall has a damage increase.  Of course, it can still take on procs to push its damage further making it more a build decision vs a utility power.  

 

Hail of Bullets will always keep its defense bonus it grants (duration is 5 seconds~).  Hail of Bullets will have 100% chance to knockdown at the end of the animation with standard ammo.  Running any kind of element will change the knockdown chance but not completely remove it.  

Chemical ammo's debuff does not stack with itself but will stack with other sources of damage debuff.  

Piercing Rounds is not particularly good as an AoE power nor is it particularly good as a ST power.  It can offer some utility to Corruptors and Defenders though.  For Defenders, it brings a -20% resistance debuff in standard ammo.  For Corruptor's that's -15%.  For Blasters/Sentinels it is -9.6% and the rest of the set can brute force past that damage contribution with procs and rapid animation times.  PR can do interesting things with procs.  Most notable is the Annihilation resistance debuff proc.  PR has a pretty decent chance to trigger it for being an "AoE" due to its narrow cone nature.  This can let you stack yet another source of -resistance when running standard ammo.  Its worth considering for the team utility at the expense of some personal damage.  

Pistols, the first power, is actually quite strong for its damage-to-animation ratio.  So don't under estimate it.  Its second only to Executioner's Shot.  Suppressive Fire can become a very heavy hitting power though its long recharge may not make it rotational unless you're a Sentinel (again, their version is different).  Dual Wield can be decent with procs added but it can also be substituted for Empty Clips.  Bullet Rain is your AoE with the best coverage so may as well take it.  

Note that several powers can take the Force Feedback: Recharge proc.  That's Dual Wield, Executioner's Shot, Empty Clips, Bullet Rain, and Hail of Bullets.  You don't need all of those powers to hold that proc but the AoEs will check against every target.  

Don't under the value of Decimation: Build-Up in one of your attacks either.  You don't necessarily need the full set, but the proc can be woven repeatedly in your ST attack cycle.  If you're not using the long animating Piercing Rounds, then all of the other regular attacks have 1.848 second animations or less in the case of Pistols.  This can lead to full attack routines (where your longest recharge power) is available within 5 seconds, depending on your global recharge of course.  I occasionally see folks bemoan the "long animation" times of Dual Pistols.  It seems like total BS to me.  Hail of Bullets and Piercing Rounds are the only powers that are longer than 2 seconds.  Everything else is less animation time.  I think there is a perception that due to Piercing Rounds unlocking at 26th level must mean that it is the strongest power.  Its not.  Its optional.  

Edited April 21, 2020 by oldskool

[Psylenz0511]

I used to have all the resistance types of foes in my head. IIRC vahz burn good, but cryo rounds are sub-par on the undead. I usually used chem rounds on tough foes like Rikti, Malta, and Arachnos. I like that -dmg. Mix it up and experiment, some foes don't resist cryo well for instance.

[BrandX]

In my own experience, I haven't found a reason to really use the other rounds outside of Fire, except on heavy Fire Resistant enemies.

[Lost Deep]

When soloing, I prefer the chem rounds for the general damage reduction, or cryo against control or support enemies to keep them from using their powers as much. Incendiary rounds I don't use much, as when soloing the extra utility goes a long way. In any case, experiment and see what you like.

[Redlynne]

Swap Ammo

 

When: it is useful.

 

Why: reasons.