Is this the ultimate AFK farming build?

[Frostweaver]

27 minutes ago, Hjarki said:

As an aside, I'd argue that 'afk farming builds' are the only builds that matter. No one spends hours and hours in a Fire farm for fun. A build that can effectively clear the farm but which requires only a brief interaction every 5 minutes is generally far superior to one that requires constant play.

'asteroid maps' tend to keep loading spawn after spawn on top of you, and a good farmer can clear them in about 4 and a half minutes.

a set of 5 asteroid maps plus white recipes and spare salvage/extra stuff  will net you about 100m every 25 minutes or so with time taken out to sell and vendor and such.
 

a cave farm map, excellent for afk farming, will take you about an hour to afk farm and will net you about 35-50 mil between all the drop sales and the cash.

Yeah, it's easier, but active farming is still far more rewarding.

Edited May 14, 2020 by Frostweaver

[Hjarki]

3 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

I just gave you a thread full of the top farming builds.

I'm well aware of the conventional wisdom. However, linking a 12 page thread as 'support' for your argument is ridiculous. If you feel there's something in that thread that supports your argument, you should link the specific post. Of course, you probably can't because it doesn't include discussions of the impact of Tanker arc/radius/target cap changes.

 

Indeed, your statements strongly imply that you haven't bothered with even the slightest bit of testing. You seem to seriously believe that 120 arc 10 radius Cones only hit 2-3 targets or require some sort of specialized positioning - and anyone who has spent any time at all farming with these abilities would immediately recognize how ridiculous such a statement is.

 

3 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

Which, since you never posted a valid attack chain that can exceed Brute's fury-fueled 'farming' attack chains, looks an AWFUL lot like either a lie, or a troll. Since calling you a Liar would be vastly more offensive, I chose the term 'trolling' which has far less emotional baggage attached.

SInce I was simply discussing the issue in generalities, I can't understand why you'd expect I would post such an attack chain. However, I did point out the numbers to correct your misconceptions about what were the most important parts of such chains.

3 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

To be honest, though, when you start throwing sperging Huffpo terms like 'ad hominem attacks' when I was questioning your motives rather than insulting your... underwear size or something, makes me far less inclined to use polite terms like 'trolling'.

I've never actually read Huffington Post, perhaps in passing. 'Ad hominem' is a logical fallacy that every educated person should at some point. It a reference to someone who refuses to provide information in a debate but instead simply attacks the other party in hopes of concealing their inability to contribute.

3 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

You are spreading false or completely untested information, and using a screen of out-of-context and irrelevant mid's numbers in order to cover that fact up and make it look legitimate. You are IGNORING animation times and attack chains in favor of raw unbuilt numbers. It's like pointing at GM's spark plugs and claiming that because the spark plugs are a good brand, the entire care is faster than a ford.

You've yet to point out a single bit of 'false information' I've spread.

 

Nor are those numbers 'out of context'. The reason I posted all of those numbers is to showcase what was - and was not - important in an attack chain. DPA is another way to examine how much damage you can put out. However, DPA becomes much less useful when you've got dramatic differences. Consider that the dps provided by Shadow Maul is 357 but the dps provided by Burn is only about 1/6th that value. What this means in practice is that Shadow Maul will always take priority over Burn in a rotation since even a major delay in Burn isn't worth a minor delay in Shadow Maul.

4 hours ago, Frostweaver said:

Yes, you are posting numbers in a vacuum. Which I have stated several times. Only stalkers care about one single attack in a vacuum, and that's only when they are building up to AS an EB. Everything else in the game uses attack chains, multiple powers working together. That's how farming works.

If this 'vacuum' exists, then you should discuss it in more than a vague numbers-scare-me sense. You've made a lot of statements that simply aren't supported by the numbers - your enthusiasm for Burn (which I suspect is related to your failure to realize the target cap), your notion that the relatively weak AE in Spines was counterbalanced by the toggle aura, etc. Unlike the statements I've made - which are backed by the numbers I've posted without any analysis attached - you've made affirmative statements that are demonstrably untrue.

[Frostweaver]

20 hours ago, Hjarki said:

With that in mind, the kings of active farming are like Tankers with the right sets due to the increased target caps/arcs/radii and the fact that you can eat reds like candy, minimizing the value of Fury.

You still haven't provided an attack chain, build, or video that proves this assertion.

 

Because it is wrong. Because EVERY brute that has the 'same' equivalent build as a tanker always outdamages said tanker. That is the way the game is balanced.

Deal with it, stop taking it so personally. I love tankers too, but I am not foolish enough to try and pretend that they are something they are not.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Frostweaver

[Apparition]

My Fire/Rad Tanker can clear the asteroid map in just under five minutes, so as far as I am concerned Tankers and Brutes are equally as good for farming.  Just they take slightly different paths to get there.

[Sovera]

5 hours ago, Hjarki said:

I'm well aware of the conventional wisdom. However, linking a 12 page thread as 'support' for your argument is ridiculous. If you feel there's something in that thread that supports your argument, you should link the specific post. Of course, you probably can't because it doesn't include discussions of the impact of Tanker arc/radius/target cap changes.

Perhaps you could just run the maps he mentions and tell us the times you got?

 

When people contest my numbers I don't engage them in back and forth forum rhetoric. I log into the game and test things to verify what they said.

 

There have been a number of times I was wrong (Siphon Life healing values in-game VS HD. Or Tanker ATO proc in a toggle, just to quote a few) and others I was right. There is no need to turn things into a contest or a competition of who is right. The real goal is spread knowledge and correct misunderstandings.

 

I trust Frostweaver to have actually tested things since he is a farming fanatic and if there is a iota of extra performance he could squeeze out of that activity he'd be there on the frontline using it. All that he asks is that you prove what you are saying, preferably in-game since HD is not exactly 100% trust-worthy, and, more importantly, the game is not spreadsheets.

 

 

I have already mentioned how I feel that the tanker extra AoE size was not a particularly interesting buff since we are not at the saturated cap all the time (nearly never in actual game conditions) and the first volleys of AoEs kills the useless minions (when can we get the difficulty option to remove minions?) diminishing a pack of 10-12 enemies to 5-6. In practical terms what's the point of having a target cap increase and a larger radius if there is no need of them to hit everything?

 

I'm still playing tanks anyway even if the Brute does more damage. I can't pull the shenanigans of 45% defense and 90% resist to nearly all on a Brute.

[Hjarki]

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

Perhaps you could just run the maps he mentions and tell us the times you got?

I have run those maps. My Dark/TW Tanker could clear the map in under 5 minutes before the changes. For that matter, there are Blaster builds that can do it. Heck, my Storm Defender can do it in about that time.

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

I trust Frostweaver to have actually tested things since he is a farming fanatic and if there is a iota of extra performance he could squeeze out of that activity he'd be there on the frontline using it. All that he asks is that you prove what you are saying, preferably in-game since HD is not exactly 100% trust-worthy, and, more importantly, the game is not spreadsheets.

I don't. He mentioned several specific builds, none of which would showcase a Tanker's AE ability. This strongly indicates that he's neither tested it nor given it much thought.

 

Nor is his request reasonable because I'm not claiming anything. I mentioned that it's likely that Tankers could out-perform Brutes. I did not make any claims about any specific build. There really isn't anything for me to 'prove'.

 

Basically, I proposed we examine the issue. His response to that was... ludicrous. I'm not going to go out and level up dozens of different builds while putting together a library of videos just because someone without any interest in being part of the conversation doesn't want to admit he doesn't know what he's talking about.

3 hours ago, Sovera said:

I have already mentioned how I feel that the tanker extra AoE size was not a particularly interesting buff since we are not at the saturated cap all the time (nearly never in actual game conditions) and the first volleys of AoEs kills the useless minions (when can we get the difficulty option to remove minions?) diminishing a pack of 10-12 enemies to 5-6. In practical terms what's the point of having a target cap increase and a larger radius if there is no need of them to hit everything?

In an AE farm, you normally have more than enough targets.

 

Also, the arc/radius/target cap is a dramatic difference. As I noted earlier in the thread, transforming a 90/7 into a 120/10 will generally increase the number of targets hit in such an environment from 2-3 to 6-8. This is trivially easy to see - just do something like Fire/Staff and you can run a x8/-1 fire farm in the early teens to demonstrate the principle.

 

For that matter, you can do it with a level 4 character against random street trash. Try Guarded Spin on a Tanker and on a Brute. The difference is so immediately obvious that I have trouble seeing how anyone could miss it if they even bothered to look.

Edited May 15, 2020 by Hjarki

[Darkir]

On 5/14/2020 at 10:19 PM, Apparition said:

My Fire/Rad Tanker can clear the asteroid map in just under five minutes, so as far as I am concerned Tankers and Brutes are equally as good for farming.  Just they take slightly different paths to get there.

Do you have a video of you doing this? I'd be interested to see it and the build you were using. 

[Apparition]

3 hours ago, Darkir said:

Do you have a video of you doing this? I'd be interested to see it and the build you were using. 

 

I don't do videos, and besides Homecoming videos are banned ATM.  As for the build:

 

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Farming Apparition: Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Fiery Aura
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Melee
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Concealment
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Blazing Aura -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(7), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(21), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc:50(37)
Level 1: Contaminated Strike -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx:50(3), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(9), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(25), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(34), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc:50(37)
Level 2: Fire Shield -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(5), Ags-ResDam:50(11)
Level 4: Healing Flames -- Prv-Heal:50(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(7), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg:50(13), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(25), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(34), Prv-Absorb%:50(40)
Level 6: Temperature Protection -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(A)
Level 8: Consume -- MckBrt-Taunt:50(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg:50(9), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(15), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg:50(27), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng:50(34), MckBrt-Rchg:50(40)
Level 10: Taunt -- MckBrt-Taunt:50(A), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg:50(11), MckBrt-Taunt/Rchg/Rng:50(15), MckBrt-Acc/Rchg:50(31), MckBrt-Taunt/Rng:50(36), MckBrt-Rchg:50(43)
Level 12: Plasma Shield -- Ags-ResDam/EndRdx:50(A), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(13), Ags-ResDam:50(17)
Level 14: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx:50(A)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(17)
Level 18: Burn -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(19), Arm-Acc/Rchg:50(19), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx:50(31), Arm-Dam%:50(36), FuroftheG-ResDeb%:50(43)
Level 20: Fusion -- RechRdx-I:50(A), GssSynFr--Build%:50(21)
Level 22: Boxing -- Hct-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(23), Hct-Acc/Rchg:50(23), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx:50(33), Hct-Dam%:50(36)
Level 24: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc:50(A)
Level 26: Fiery Embrace -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(27)
Level 28: Irradiated Ground -- Obl-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Obl-Dmg/Rchg:50(29), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(29), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), Obl-%Dam:50(37), AchHee-ResDeb%:20(46)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx:50(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(31)
Level 32: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A)
Level 35: Stealth -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A)
Level 38: Atom Smasher -- SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg:50(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(39), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(39), AchHee-ResDeb%:20(40), Obl-%Dam:50(46)
Level 41: Mu Lightning -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(42), Apc-Acc/Rchg:50(42), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(42), Apc-Dam%:50(43)
Level 44: Electrifying Fences -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg:50(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(45), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(45), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg:50(46), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc:50(50)
Level 47: Ball Lightning -- Rgn-Dmg/Rchg:50(A), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(48), Rgn-Acc/Rchg:50(48), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx:50(48), Rgn-Knock%:50(50), Ann-ResDeb%:50(50)
Level 49: Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+:50(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Clr-Stlth:50(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- IntRdx-I:50(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+:40(A), Pnc-Heal/+End:50(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A)
Level 0: Born In Battle 
Level 0: High Pain Threshold 
Level 0: Invader 
Level 0: Marshal 
Level 50: Musculature Core Paragon 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ion Core Final Judgement 
Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Banished Pantheon Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Assault Radial Embodiment 
------------
------------
Set Bonus Totals:

• 11% DamageBuff(Smashing)
• 11% DamageBuff(Lethal)
• 11% DamageBuff(Fire)
• 11% DamageBuff(Cold)
• 11% DamageBuff(Energy)
• 11% DamageBuff(Negative)
• 11% DamageBuff(Toxic)
• 11% DamageBuff(Psionic)
• 18.5% Defense(Smashing)
• 18.5% Defense(Lethal)
• 36% Defense(Fire)
• 36% Defense(Cold)
• 6% Defense(Energy)
• 6% Defense(Negative)
• 6% Defense(Psionic)
• 16% Defense(Melee)
• 6% Defense(Ranged)
• 24.75% Defense(AoE)
• 3.6% Max End
• 108.8% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
• 54% Enhancement(Accuracy)
• 3.75% Enhancement(Max EnduranceDiscount)
• 15% SpeedFlying
• GrantPower Preventive Medicine (10% chance, if Scourge)
• 147.6 HP (7.88%) HitPoints
• 15% JumpHeight
• 15% SpeedJumping
• MezResist(Confused) 70%
• MezResist(Held) 70%
• MezResist(Immobilized) 70%
• MezResist(Sleep) 70%
• MezResist(Stunned) 70%
• MezResist(Terrorized) 70%
• MezResist(Teleport) 100% (20% chance)
• 20% (0.33 End/sec) Recovery
• 26% (2.03 HP/sec) Regeneration
• 45% ResEffect(SpeedFlying)
• 45% ResEffect(RechargeTime)
• 45% ResEffect(SpeedRunning)
• 9% Resistance(Smashing)
• 9% Resistance(Lethal)
• 33% Resistance(Fire)
• 33% Resistance(Cold)
• 15% SpeedRunning
  

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[Glowman]

I have farmed quite a bit, but never any AFK farming. If one were to build a char predominately for the afk farming what might that look like? I assume things like hasten wouldn't be necessary, because you would have an aoe power on auto?

[Troo]

[Hjarki]

2 hours ago, Zer0 Hour said:

I have farmed quite a bit, but never any AFK farming. If one were to build a char predominately for the afk farming what might that look like? I assume things like hasten wouldn't be necessary, because you would have an aoe power on auto?

"AFK farming" is really just running the two auras and then setting an offensive power (normally Atom Smasher or Burn) on auto-fire.  This allows you to walk away and do something else while you grind down the mobs. You need to stop back from time to time for re-positioning, but otherwise you don't need to pay much attention.

 

It's normally more effective on cave maps than asteroid/city ones.

[Glowman]

Thanks!

[RiotAce]

Buildings the easy part, finding a map that caters perfectly is the hard part. I used to afk-farm the asteroid map and still had to go in every few minutes to reposition my farmer because the mobs don't wander in as quickly or if at all. Any good map suggestions? Raven's Asteroid map spawns a lot of mobs quickly but still have to reposition a couple of times.

[Sovera]

29 minutes ago, RiotAce said:

Buildings the easy part, finding a map that caters perfectly is the hard part. I used to afk-farm the asteroid map and still had to go in every few minutes to reposition my farmer because the mobs don't wander in as quickly or if at all. Any good map suggestions? Raven's Asteroid map spawns a lot of mobs quickly but still have to reposition a couple of times.

One annoying thing the few times I did use the asteroid map, is that they start lovely and patrolling, but then end clustered around the edges of the map and immobile for some reason.

[RiotAce]

1 hour ago, Sovera said:

One annoying thing the few times I did use the asteroid map, is that they start lovely and patrolling, but then end clustered around the edges of the map and immobile for some reason.

Exactly. Ever since the AE ambush nerf AFK farming has lost its luster for me. Ive never tried a cave map, but it seems eventually I'll have to move and if i have to move I may as well clear the damn thing myself.

[Golden Azrael]

I quite enjoyed active 'Cave' farming with my Fire Blaster.  A thing of beauty.  But I have to pop the inspires from time to time.

 

Not as robust as a Brute for these purposes. 

 

But it's fun to see a whole cave on fire.

 

Azrael.

[MisterX]

Hi guys. Thanks Frostweaver and Hjarki for the "heated" debate in here. But keep it cool guys. A quick question about the reason I came here, if I may, I was looking for aAFK farmer/build ideas. I do have one very good fire farmer build based one of your excellent guides Frostweaver - and want to try an AFK tank build too (as I like team-friendly tanking too) BUT I've noticed not a single line/comment made on Masterminds for AFK farming - and I've seen one in action (and should have written the toon's name down, but didn't) - the toon/technique in question was using group flight and robots (although I didn't even clock what the secondary was, although Forcefield might be great for farm protection) and it worked great but is clearly not remotely comparable to active fire brutes/tanks for farming - but it was still effective for proper set-and-leave alone AFK farming.

 

So the question for you guys is if you've tried it too (for AFK farming)?

 

The big AFK advantage is clearly that you can have a whole pack of ranged robots firing (literally) at the massed mobs below but in terms of AFK DPS there must be some interesting stats going on there as you're not talking about a just 2-3 damage auras + Burn (on auto) but the constant firing/healing of a pack of well-trained robots!

 

Any thoughts (or stats if anyone has them)? Would love to see them. Thanks for the thread meantime.

Edited May 22, 2021 by MisterX

[RageusQuitus2]

On 5/14/2020 at 1:42 PM, Hjarki said:

Tankers hit either 100% more targets (for Cones) or 60% more targets (for PBAoE).

So primary and epic with most cones?

 

Maybe warmace with leviathan epic?  Like 5-6 cones?  Worth it with enhanced range?

Edited May 22, 2021 by RageusQuitus2
Answered own question?