Energy Melee - Does not need

[Troo]

This thread started with:

Energy Melee - Does not need more multi-target attacks (Aura, Cones, AoE, etc).

Energy Melee - Does not need a combo system or mechanic.

Energy Melee - Does not need to be re-envisioned.

 

We got (on Beta):

A new AoE with a boost combo mechanic to hit tons of targets.

A Combo Mechanic that triggers off Total Focus and has three choices one of which is a fast Energy Transfer. (we don't get that if we choose one of the other two)

It's re-envisioned. Practically a tear down rebuild.

 

It's better than what we have but ANYTHING was going to be better due to the low bar. It's disappointing. (there are some good adjustments to WH dam, etc.)

Edited October 28, 2020 by Troo

[Troo]

Here is what I put on the focused feedback topic that would get me to shut up and choke down the combo mechanic.

 

Keep the combo mechanic.

Keep Total Focus > Power Crush & keep Total Focus > Energy Transfer but remove Total Focus > Bone Smasher

 

This lets folks choose to focus on AoE or Single Target and even switch focus mid encounter. It is simpler.

 

Of course adjust some numbers to avoid abuse.

 

• I love disorient but I would be okay with removing the BS 100% stun. I can live with that.
• Full time ET doesn't seem to be an option no matter how bad some may want it and some folks really want the AoE.
• It seems like this might simplify the change enough to smooth over changing an existing power set in a substantial way.

 

This is not my idea but kind of where the comments here and other threads have led. There has been a little drum beat that something needs to be done. 'Something is off' 'Move EF from BS" "Is TF>ET or TF>BS a choice" Etc. Etc.

[Bill Z Bubba]

10 minutes ago, Troo said:

Keep the combo mechanic.

Nah.

 

I'll play it anyway. I like massive single target damage and the new EM provides it in spades. I like lowbie EM better than endgame EM as it is on beta but I'll never dig the set with the combo garbage in place. Don't get me wrong, there's some great changes in there, and those changes are better than the combo system sucks... but the combo system still sucks and I'll never not hate it.

 

Still a better set than kinetic and fire melee. 🙂

[Myrmidon]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Here is what I put on the focused feedback topic that would get me to shut up and choke down the combo mechanic.

 

Keep the combo mechanic.

Keep Total Focus > Power Crush & keep Total Focus > Energy Transfer but remove Total Focus > Bone Smasher

 

This lets folks choose to focus on AoE or Single Target and even switch focus mid encounter. It is simpler.

 

Of course adjust some numbers to avoid abuse.

 

• I love disorient but I would be okay with removing the BS 100% stun. I can live with that.
• Full time ET doesn't seem to be an option no matter how bad some may want it and some folks really want the AoE.
• It seems like this might simplify the change enough to smooth over changing an existing power set in a substantial way.

 

This is not my idea but kind of where the comments here and other threads have led. There has been a little drum beat that something needs to be done. 'Something is off' 'Move EF from BS" "Is TF>ET or TF>BS a choice" Etc. Etc.

So, Tankers don’t get to make use of Energy Focus at all until 35 is what you’re advocating? If this change is on the table, then (besides the finger), what do you propose they receive to compensate?

[Infinitum]

5 hours ago, Troo said:

The beta set if anyone hasn't tried it is... different.

 

It does NOT have a full time 1 second animation for Energy Transfer.

It does have a combo mechanic that triggers off Total Focus and provides a boost to one of three options. One of the options is a 'fast' Energy Transfer.

 

The bar was set pretty low, any improvement feels like a big improvement.

 

I continue to believe that the same thing or better could have been accomplished without the combo mechanic.

 

Please head to beta and give a whirl and share your thoughts. It's okay to like the fast ET. My only beefs with it is it requires TF and it is part-time.

 

You conveniently left out a lot to try to sandbag your point.

 

1. Ep, Wh, ET, and TF.  ALL got buffed

 

EP and WH got dmg

 

TF got its animation time significantly reduced - so you keep saying you have to use it but in reality there is no reason not to. 

 

Slow ET got buffed also - base recharge lowered and it cost no endurance.  It actually doesnt suck to use slow ET situationally - however 

 

If You use TF - which again, there is no reason under the 7 hells not to you get granted focus which gives you fast ET which is then probably the best attack in the game.  Technically its not full time, but if you play it shrewdly it can be.

 

Even if you take focus out of the equation EM is wildly improved and could even rival pre nerf EM with the above listed buffs.

 

Add focus into the equation - which is as simple as using the second best power in the set - arguably the first now- it leaves pre nerf EM in the dust while still allowing it to feel exactly the same way it did pre nerf only better.

 

Its hardly a devastatingly hard combo when all you have to do is switch to TF to ET vs ET to TF - wheres Mickey Goldmill when ya need him?   

[Lines]

Calling it a combo mechanic isn't quite right. That suggests you must use TF to ET adjacently. But energy focus from TF sticks around for a while. You can fit a lot in that cap before firing off ET.

 

This coming from a self-confessed button masher.

 

Other ways to proc EF might be nice, but I imagine this was tried and found to be off balance.

Edited October 28, 2020 by Lines

[Troo]

9 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

So, Tankers don’t get to make use of Energy Focus at all until 35 is what you’re advocating? If this change is on the table, then (besides the finger), what do you propose they receive to compensate?

I would not advocate for penalizing Tankers.

 

It is a bit weird have the set change so drastically over the 1-50. Much less what happens with high end builds. Build Up with THREE Energy Transfers is crazy.

 

Having the more sources takes it in the direction of other combo sets. Some folks don't like that.

While I don't agree with the gotta have more AoE to be useful, some folks really want that.

 

It just seems that getting the AoE in there had ripples that needed to be addressed.

 

The combo mechanic is just trying to do to much. And since the set didn't have one, maybe simplifying it is more true to the set. We'd get both better single target and aoe.

[Troo]

7 hours ago, Lines said:

Calling it a combo mechanic isn't quite right. That suggests you must use TF to ET adjacently. But energy focus from TF sticks around for a while. You can fit a lot in that cap before firing off ET.

 

This coming from a self-confessed button masher.

 

Other ways to proc EF might be nice, but I imagine this was tried and found to be off balance.

I am open to a different term.

 

However if we don't use them adjacently but want that fast ET, there are two powers which are essentially locked out.

[Troo]

10 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Nah.

 

I'll play it anyway. I like massive single target damage and the new EM provides it in spades. I like lowbie EM better than endgame EM as it is on beta but I'll never dig the set with the combo garbage in place. Don't get me wrong, there's some great changes in there, and those changes are better than the combo system sucks... but the combo system still sucks and I'll never not hate it.

 

Still a better set than kinetic and fire melee. 🙂

If they had done these changes to the old set without the combo shenanigans. 3 ETs and a TF in a buildup window..

 

I am willing to concede to the combo mechanic if that helps the AoE folks. Stun is a loss but I think that can be compensated for.

 

The simpler combo does allow players to shift between an AoE focus and a single target one. It seems to accommodate the most folks.

Am I gonna go out of my way to try and get the right number of targets into a cone to make that worth it, hell no.

[Lines]

1 minute ago, Troo said:

I am open to a different term.

 

However if we don't use them adjacently but want that fast ET, there are two powers which are essentially locked out.

Sure, but I was finding I'd want to chuck in WH to whittle a crowd or just energy punch to shave off the last bit of HP after TF.

 

Like, I don't feel straight-jacketed is what I'm saying or that I had to learn any rotations. Even if I do use another EF-consuming power by mistake, TF is back up pretty quick.

 

Too many acronyms.

[Troo]

31 minutes ago, Lines said:

Sure, but I was finding I'd want to chuck in WH to whittle a crowd or just energy punch to shave off the last bit of HP after TF.

 

Like, I don't feel straight-jacketed is what I'm saying or that I had to learn any rotations. Even if I do use another EF-consuming power by mistake, TF is back up pretty quick.

 

Too many acronyms.

My play has a lot more variety in it than I guess someone looking for the perfect attack chain. (targets just don't last that long)

 

Note: not all sets get whirling hands.

 

With more than just a handful of forum folks not liking the addition of a combo mechanic, there appeared to be a compromise that revealed itself, and it was simple.

 

We all want basically the same thing: A hard hitting set that can put out BIG burst damage without feeling like a plodder. (I'm looking at you psi melee)

Edited October 28, 2020 by Troo

[Troo]

8 hours ago, Infinitum said:

You conveniently left out a lot to try to sandbag your point.

 

1. Ep, Wh, ET, and TF.  ALL got buffed

 

EP and WH got dmg

Hold on there.

I did mention that there was some good stuff. It was just in the post right above (I had a really long post but whittled it down and broke it up to reduce the amount if quoted)

 

I could argue that Energy Punch is not a buff. (For lower levels it recharges slower and cost more endurance) (High levels these are small non-considerations)

 

There are some good changes in there. Changes which could have just as well been done to the prenerf Energy Melee. Adding the combo mechanic to an existing set is just wrong.

[BrandX]

11 hours ago, Myrmidon said:

So, Tankers don’t get to make use of Energy Focus at all until 35 is what you’re advocating? If this change is on the table, then (besides the finger), what do you propose they receive to compensate?

 

They don't get to make use of lots of things until level 35 or 38.  No Crushing Uppercut until level 38.  No Sweep Combo until level 38.  Tankers having to wait long for things pertaining to melee, is basically what it means to be a Tanker.

[Solarverse]

32 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

They don't get to make use of lots of things until level 35 or 38.  No Crushing Uppercut until level 38.  No Sweep Combo until level 38.  Tankers having to wait long for things pertaining to melee, is basically what it means to be a Tanker.

Exactly. Remember when Tankers took nothing but Boxing and their AoEs? Tanks have it made today compared to when they first came out. I always felt that if somebody wants those powers quicker, that is what Brutes are for. Sure, get your attack powers quicker, but be squishy longer. I feel like that system is working as intended.

[Infinitum]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

Adding the combo mechanic to an existing set is just wrong.

i know you are going to your dying breath that this is a combo, but it's not and you know it.  Its literally just a power activation to unlock other features that is the mechanic.

 

You still use the powers now on crapper EM, this just allows them to have other features that youndont have to use in any specific order.

 

We All get that you dont like it and its not what you want but at least be honest with yourself in how you portray this.

[BrandX]

Just curious, but why not have Power Crash be a single target attack with 100% stun, that when used with Energy Focus, becomes a cone with more damage?

 

Or is the idea to give Bone Smasher the 100% Stun with EF, to make people choose more?

[Jimmy]

I'm going to lock this thread for the moment to prevent the discussion and feedback being split between multiple locations.

 

Please use the focused feedback thread to discuss the changes.