Blaster or Sentinel?

[Haijinx]

36 minutes ago, nihilii said:

Haij, I'd think you of all people would root for Sentinels, given that they have the best version of Regen.

 

Which means it can be nerfed even harder.

Just Hai, Hai-Jinx was a play on a Martial Arts thing 

 

But.  You make an excellent point.  

 

But its Sentinels Tho.

 

Maybe if Captain Powerhouse gets around to buffing them a bit?   And the buff doesn't get ruined like Dark Consumption. 

[Wavicle]

On 7/3/2020 at 7:02 AM, Coyote said:

The argument that Sentinel damage is lacking is more informed, but still wrong... it just takes a build well designed with damage procs to get the higher damage results. No matter what, they'll trail Blasters, though.

I feel like this is a contradiction. If it's true that no matter what they'll still trail blasters then the original statement is not wrong.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Wavicle

[Coyote]

12 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

I feel like this is a contradiction. If it's true that no matter what they'll still trail blasters than the original statement is not wrong.

 

I'm saying that there are two things you can say about Sentinel damage, and I feel one is right and one is wrong:

1: Sentinel damage is lower than Blaster damage. Absolutely correct. And fair, because clearly Sentinel defenses are better than Blaster defenses, and also their inherent can buff a team's damage while the Blaster's inherent is part of the reason why its personal damage is higher.

2: Sentinel damage is "lacking". I feel this is wrong, although if your definition of "lacking damage" is "lower than Blaster", then I suppose it would be a true statement. But in that case, what isn't lacking damage besides a Blaster? So, while "lacking damage" is more of an opinion, I've run damage chains and DPA calculations on Sentinel powers WITH PROCS versus other non-Blaster ATs, and Sentinels seem okay to me. Their damage looks comparable to Corruptors and Defenders and Dominators... they lose out on AoE compared to those due to damage caps, but they gain due to having a nuke up for every spawn in most situations, plus a second "half-nuke" in Engulfing Darkness with procs. I mean, my Dark/Nin will have an every-spawn opener of Blackstar plus ED for over 800 points of AoE damage. Yes, target caps are lower, but that's still higher than most Defenders and Corruptors have available as an every-spawn AoE combo.

 

So, in the end, I'm saying this:   Blaster Damage > Sentinel Damage > "lacking damage", for my definition of lacking damage. And be aware that I consider an AT that can't open with an every-spawn AoE salvo of at least 600 damage as "lacking damage". But other than maybe Khelds, I'm not sure there is such an AT. Individual powerset combinations within some ATs, yes. But I think that every AT in general has multiple options that can open up with 600+ AoE, and actually all Sentinel builds can do that.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Coyote

[CaptTastic]

3 hours ago, Apparition said:

 

Unfortunately, at endgame, damage is all that's important.  I don't like it, but there's no getting away from it.  And with damage, Blasters win hands down.  It's not even close to a contest.  Now, if you don't like endgame, then sure, pick what you'd like to play.

Horse-plop. Pure, unadulterated horse-plop. 

[marcussmythe]

On 7/3/2020 at 3:36 PM, drbuzzard said:

Oh, and it should be emphasized that competitive sentinel builds lean heavily on procs for their damage, which I personally find very gimmicky, and have a suspicion isn't going to last forever. 

I really hope your suspicion proves false.  Incarnates, EPPs, IO set bonuses - the game excels at handing out survival tools.  Buckets of them.  Enough that from 40 to 50, it is trivial for ‘soft’ ATs to get, if not as hard as the ‘tough’ ATs, certainly tough enough for any content that matters.

 

Nothing exists that drives the damage of the tough ATs at anything like the same rate.  Procs help close some of that gap - but only some.

 

If procs go away, but the other bonuses remain, then an imbalanced situation becomes moreso, and I will miss playing my tanks (etc) as I reroll into damage dealing ATs, preferably long range ones.

[Bonkleberry]

On 7/4/2020 at 9:43 AM, Without_Pause said:

My level 41 hardcore blaster who survived numerous possible team wipes on Live would like to have a word with you.

I survive team wipes all the time on squishy characters. It is called running away.

[Corruption]

Sentinels are very underwhelming, I'd go with a Blaster every single time. The role of both AT's is ranged damage and Sentinels are just bad at it. You can make a Blaster survivable enough, while you can't do much about a Sentinel's lackluster damage.

[Hexquisite]

35 minutes ago, Bonkleberry said:

I survive team wipes all the time on squishy characters. It is called running away.

It's not running away. It's 'strategic withdrawal.'

[MunkiLord]

On 7/4/2020 at 1:43 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

I mean... hell... with all three amplifiers, envenomed daggers and my lore pets, my claws/bio scrapper pylon time is 1:24. That's ludicrous. Cheating to win is no way to look at game balance.

Oh shit, I need to try that on my WM/Bio Scrapper!

[CaptTastic]

2 hours ago, Corruption said:

Sentinels are very underwhelming, I'd go with a Blaster every single time. The role of both AT's is ranged damage and Sentinels are just bad at it. You can make a Blaster survivable enough, while you can't do much about a Sentinel's lackluster damage.

I agree with you to a point: blasters are certainly better damage than sentinels. 
 

I disagree with your original premise, though, which is both AT’s role is ranged damage. A blaster’s role is definitely damage (though not necessarily ranged), but think a sentinel has more a utility role. If they were for meant damage, they’d have a higher damage multiplier. 

[Bonkleberry]

I mean, I am not even sure why "role" is a topic of discussion. This game does not have organized team roles. If we are trying to argue which AT has the best pew pew numbers and that AT wins the choice, then neither Blasters nor Sentinels win that category--that win goes to Corruptors. You are not choosing Blaster or Sentinel for ranged damage numbers. You choose Blaster for melee options and Sentinel for better survuvability.

 

 

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, Bonkleberry said:

I mean, I am not even sure why "role" is a topic of discussion. This game does not have organized team roles. If we are trying to argue which AT has the best pew pew numbers and that AT wins the choice, then neither Blasters nor Sentinels win that category--that win goes to Corruptors. You are not choosing Blaster or Sentinel for ranged damage numbers. You choose Blaster for melee options and Sentinel for better survuvability.

 

 

With a couple of different exceptions under very specific circumstances (Hello there, Fire/Kin against a GM), Blasters absolutely do more ranged damage than Corruptors.

[DanaDark]

Little late to this party but my two cents as a Sentinel...

 

Sentinels are better described as ranged scrappers than defensive blasters. Your spot is in the mix with the enemies and not in the back with the ranger types.

 

Like scrappers but hate having to run up to each and every single mob to attack? Sentinel. Lower damage but you can be applying that damage more often (minor).

 

Sentinel is very forgiving due to the extra defensive stuff you get, and depending on the secondary choice, even a self Rez. Blaster is terrific damage and some decent utility. But there does come a point where it’s like choosing a 100 megaton nuke or a 115 megaton nuke to kill the spider in the bathroom.

 

Try both to 30 and see what feels right. Try various secondaries too because that will make a significant difference on how you feel about the AT.

 

I’ll add that I took the melee alpha to get the innate taunt and took provoke to actively taunt as a sentinel and love being able to to tank.

 

But, it all depends on what you want to do, which powers you choose, and how you go about slotting etc. 

[Bonkleberry]

On 7/7/2020 at 2:49 PM, Apparition said:

With a couple of different exceptions under very specific circumstances (Hello there, Fire/Kin against a GM), Blasters absolutely do more ranged damage than Corruptors.

Umm... If you say so. Just using the ingame base numbers:

 

Fire Blast	Blaster	Corruptor
Flares	63.19	71.74
Fire Blast	84.72	98.19
Fire Ball	74.62	87.29
Rain of Fire	125.12	166.83
Fire Breath	109.8	146.39
Blaze	170.49	202.08
Inferno	410.94	357.37

 

They even have the same target and damage caps. So, either those numbers are wrong, or you somehow think Blaster Secondaries and Defiance some how make Blasters significantly more damaging than Corruptor Secondaries (which frequently include -res and +damage) and Scourge.

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, Bonkleberry said:

Umm... If you say so. Just using the ingame base numbers:

 

Fire Blast	Blaster	Corruptor
Flares	63.19	71.74
Fire Blast	84.72	98.19
Fire Ball	74.62	87.29
Rain of Fire	125.12	166.83
Fire Breath	109.8	146.39
Blaze	170.49	202.08
Inferno	410.94	357.37

 

They even have the same target and damage caps. So, either those numbers are wrong, or you somehow think Blaster Secondaries and Defiance some how make Blasters significantly more damaging than Corruptor Secondaries (which frequently include -res and +damage) and Scourge.

 

They're wrong.  The Corruptor numbers are including Scourge.

[Bonkleberry]

1 minute ago, Apparition said:

 

They're wrong.  The Corruptor numbers are including Scourge.

Well that seems silly. So, you are saying in-game tooltips are broken? Why would they include Scourge if Controller powers do not include Containment and Scrapper do not include Critical? This is news to me, but I have not been back in the game for that long.

[Apparition]

2 minutes ago, Bonkleberry said:

Well that seems silly. So, you are saying in-game tooltips are broken? Why would they include Scourge if Controller powers do not include Containment and Scrapper do not include Critical? This is news to me, but I have not been back in the game for that long.

 

For Corruptors, in-game tooltips are indeed broken.  Have been for several months now.  It's a known bug, but low on the totem pole.

[Corruption]

6 minutes ago, Bonkleberry said:

Well that seems silly. So, you are saying in-game tooltips are broken? Why would they include Scourge if Controller powers do not include Containment and Scrapper do not include Critical? This is news to me, but I have not been back in the game for that long.

Yes, they're wrong. It's a common mistake if you're just going by those numbers, but if you play both AT's, you'll definitely notice the difference. 

 

A Blaster heavy team should steamroll any content the fastest. 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Corruption

[Bonkleberry]

Yeah, I went out and tested just to be sure. Corruptor tooltip says Flares is 16 damage at level 1. It was doing 7 against a level 1 Hellion Minion. Blaster tooltip says 10 and it was doing 9.

 

You learn something new every day.

[0th Power]

2 hours ago, Bonkleberry said:

Yeah, I went out and tested just to be sure. Corruptor tooltip says Flares is 16 damage at level 1. It was doing 7 against a level 1 Hellion Minion. Blaster tooltip says 10 and it was doing 9.

 

You learn something new every day.

Aren’t hellions resistant to fire damage though?

[Hyperstrike]

Blasters are just pure damage at melee and range.  If you managed to build up some Defense?  Cool.  But in a lot of cases you simply don't have the survivability tools beyond "KILLMOARFASTER!!!"

Sentinels have a greater survivability.  But they basically toss out melee-range damage to achieve it and sacrifice some ranged damage too.
Even so, a Tanked out Sentinel is a thing of glory!

[CaptTastic]

4 hours ago, Hyperstrike said:

Blasters are just pure damage at melee and range.  If you managed to build up some Defense?  Cool.  But in a lot of cases you simply don't have the survivability tools beyond "KILLMOARFASTER!!!"

Sentinels have a greater survivability.  But they basically toss out melee-range damage to achieve it and sacrifice some ranged damage too.
Even so, a Tanked out Sentinel is a thing of glory!

Absolutely this. No two blasters are the same and no two sentinels are the same, and the same can be said for every AT in the game. That variation is something that makes this game as brilliant as it is. 
 

Everyone can choose what they enjoy playing the most. There is no ‘best,’ there is no ‘better than.’ We all get to decide for ourselves. 
 

I love my Elec*3 Sentinel. Probably my favourite character to play because it’s the most versatile, even if it’s not the best damage I have available to choose from. To me, that versatility is worth more than the extra damage and more enjoyable. To others, damage is worth more and is more enjoyable. No one is doing the game wrong. 

[Powercreep]

On 7/5/2020 at 12:50 PM, oldskool said:

Power creep is in favor of the Blaster, but the Sentinel will eventually be changed.  So that pendulum may swing differently in the future or it may not. 

Nah, Sentinels are just a fad, not really my thing.

[Myrmidon]

If it uses a weapon that causes redraw, go Sentinel. My Beam Rifle/Invulnerability is loads of fun.

[Myrmidon]

On 7/5/2020 at 5:31 PM, Haijinx said:

Just Hai, Hai-Jinx was a play on a Martial Arts thing 

 

But.  You make an excellent point.  

 

But its Sentinels Tho.

 

Maybe if Captain Powerhouse gets around to buffing them a bit?   And the buff doesn't get ruined like Dark Consumption. 

Not ruined. It was more like a “to be continued” thing.🤣