Could self flagging for pvp in any zone be a thing?

[Bionic_Flea]

Quote

 

This is correct.

 

Some people just don't understand the difference between PvPing and being an asshat.

 

It's a PvP zone, not an asshat zone.

 

But Jimmy . . . OK, I got nothing.  You win this time.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Bionic_Flea

[ImpousVileTerror]

And since some people seem to like to take the piss on these sorts of things and get all pedantic, here's my step by step on the matter (note:  I am NOT a GM, and do not speak for them.  I offer this merely as a jumping-off point for the GMs to consider using, or not, in their sole discretion).

- Player versus Player conduct as intentionally designed in-game is the specific purpose of PvP Zones.
- PvE content exists in PvP Zones, essentially as "bait" (for good or for ill, that debate is for game design discussions and philosophy).

- The Code of Conduct has specific rules regarding harassment, which are enforced by the GMs at their best discretion.

- Playing the game as intended is not against the Code of Conduct.  What is "intended" may be reviewed by the GMs at any time.

- Appeals can be made of specific GM decisions, IN PRIVATE through the Support Ticket system in-game or in these forums.

- Players are encouraged to treat one another with respect and a mutual sense of enjoyment for the game, but in cases where personal interests clash without breach of the Code of Conduct, it is recommended players distance themselves from others with existing tools at their disposal in-game (such as visiting other Zones or Shards, using Ignore features, et cetera).

[Lines]

Which zone is the asshat zone?

[arcane]

2 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

continuing to use the slap emote on someone standing at the train station after they have repeatedly asked you to stop would, in my opinion, be considered harassment.

Off-topic, for sure, but man would I love to hear a GM talk about how they would deal with a case like this. I think there should be limits of some kind in the sense that a player should not be able to follow and stalk another player for very long at all,  but I sure hope all these complaints about emote usage on a person - maybe multiple usages but all at one time and place - don’t amount to the bans some people clearly want to see.

 

Like, I just hope like hell for the sake of the human race that this whole phenomenon of wanting to ban pixel slappers at least comes with a few warnings first for the utterly harmless offender.

Edited July 12, 2020 by arcaneholocaust

[EmmySky]

35 minutes ago, Lines said:

Which zone is the asshat zone?

Inquiring minds want to know!  Need to know!

 

 

Seriously, @Lines and I musta been seperated at birth because I was gonna post the same thing....beat me by half an hour!

[SwitchFade]

44 minutes ago, Lines said:

Which zone is the asshat zone?

The Switchfade zone.

[Frostbiter]

52 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Off-topic, for sure, but man would I love to hear a GM talk about how they would deal with a case like this. I think there should be limits of some kind in the sense that a player should not be able to follow and stalk another player for very long at all,  but I sure hope all these complaints about emote usage on a person - maybe multiple usages but all at one time and place - don’t amount to the bans some people clearly want to see.

 

Like, I just hope like hell for the sake of the human race that this whole phenomenon of wanting to ban pixel slappers at least comes with a few warnings first for the utterly harmless offender.

Harmless offender? I'd take the opposition side to this argument more seriously if they could make a case for why it should be allowed.

[Lines]

Maybe we should leave the straw men from the last thread buried in their grave...

[Twisted Toon]

1 hour ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Off-topic, for sure, but man would I love to hear a GM talk about how they would deal with a case like this. I think there should be limits of some kind in the sense that a player should not be able to follow and stalk another player for very long at all,  but I sure hope all these complaints about emote usage on a person - maybe multiple usages but all at one time and place - don’t amount to the bans some people clearly want to see.

 

Like, I just hope like hell for the sake of the human race that this whole phenomenon of wanting to ban pixel slappers at least comes with a few warnings first for the utterly harmless offender.

I don't really see a way that it can be policed without having a GM standing on every corner running the game with -demorecord going so they can "review the security footage", so to speak.

Unfortunately, in most cases of emote harassment, it comes down to "he/she/zee said, he/she/zee said". Which, would be extremely difficult, if at all possible, to deal with in a fair manner.

It's not something that I would readily foist upon our volunteer GMs. They have enough on their plate to deal with as it is.

 

[arcane]

22 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

Harmless offender? I'd take the opposition side to this argument more seriously if they could make a case for why it should be allowed.

Well I don't feel like getting into an argument about what the entire case is, but surely these facts would come into play:

 

(1) /e slap is a dev-created part of the game; 

 

(2) whether or not we agree on this one, we would likely agree that some bans somewhere are draconian; and

 

(3) whether or not we agree on this one, we would likely agree that some things should be allowed whether we are asked to stop or not. In addition to the PvP example, for instance, we might be able to agree that the people in a recent thread that expressed annoyance at people spamming "LFT" in the LFG channel would have no case whether they asked those accused spammers to stop or not. 

 

I sincerely do not understand, in light of these facts, how we can act like the /e slap pandemic is an open-and-shut case of punishable harassment.

[Haijinx]

49 minutes ago, Lines said:

Maybe we should leave the straw men from the last thread buried in their grave...

I'll miss you most of all Scarecrow

[Haijinx]

25 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Well I don't feel like getting into an argument about what the entire case is, but surely these facts would come into play:

 

(1) /e slap is a dev-created part of the game; 

 

(2) whether or not we agree on this one, we would likely agree that some bans somewhere are draconian; and

 

(3) whether or not we agree on this one, we would likely agree that some things should be allowed whether we are asked to stop or not. In addition to the PvP example, for instance, we might be able to agree that the people in a recent thread that expressed annoyance at people spamming "LFT" in the LFG channel would have no case whether they asked those accused spammers to stop or not. 

 

I sincerely do not understand, in light of these facts, how we can act like the /e slap pandemic is an open-and-shut case of punishable harassment.

Wait.  This is *that* thread?

[arcane]

Yeah... sorry... go ahead and just delete my off topic drivel.

[Apparition]

There is absolutely nothing that is in PvP zones that is required for PvE.  The closest would be the Triumphant and Swashbuckler badges required for the Born in Battle accolade and Weapon of Mass Destruction and Arachnos Rising badges required for the Marshal accolade.  That only impacts red side toons.   I play red side exclusively, and before Issue 18, I just went without the Born in Battle and Marshal accolades on all of my toons because I refuse to enter a PvP zone for any reason.  Good news is that you can now get those accolades blue side by taking a day pass to Paragon City, and then come back to the Rogue Isles when you're done.  As for Shivans and nukes, they are not required for even the most difficult of PvE content.

 

The only PvE reason you could have for venturing into a PvP zone is if you want all of the badges in the game.  If so, well... frankly that's on you and you have to accept the (low) PvP risks to get them.

[ImpousVileTerror]

"Required."

 

This word gets bandied around a lot in topics of this nature.

NOTHING in the game is strictly -required.-

Generally speaking, we play for the content.  Badges and Zone -are- a part of that content.

Wanting the Badges in Bloody Bay, Siren's Call, Warburg, and Recluse's Victory is just as valid as playing in Teams or doing Incarnate content.

So, if having a level 50 with Incarnate Powers is "required," then so is entering a PvP zone.

 

Please remember:  Not everyone plays the game the same way or for the same reasons, but as long as they're not violating the Code on Conduct, they -are- EXPRESSLY welcome on Homecoming, per the Mission Statement.  I think we would all do well to remember that very key aspect of this game before branding anything "required" or "trivial" or what-have-you.

[Frostbiter]

48 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

Well I don't feel like getting into an argument about what the entire case is, but surely these facts would come into play:

 

(1) /e slap is a dev-created part of the game; 

 

(2) whether or not we agree on this one, we would likely agree that some bans somewhere are draconian; and

 

(3) whether or not we agree on this one, we would likely agree that some things should be allowed whether we are asked to stop or not. In addition to the PvP example, for instance, we might be able to agree that the people in a recent thread that expressed annoyance at people spamming "LFT" in the LFG channel would have no case whether they asked those accused spammers to stop or not. 

 

I sincerely do not understand, in light of these facts, how we can act like the /e slap pandemic is an open-and-shut case of punishable harassment.

Your arguments boil down to " I can do it so I'm going to" and "I want to do it so it should be allowed". If those reasons sound selfish to you it's because they are.

[Bionic_Flea]

22 minutes ago, Apparition said:

The only PvE reason you could have for venturing into a PvP zone is if you want all of the badges in the game. 

Somebody who wants all the badges is going to have to engage in some level of PvP.

[arcane]

21 minutes ago, Frostbiter said:

Your arguments boil down to " I can do it so I'm going to" and "I want to do it so it should be allowed". If those reasons sound selfish to you it's because they are.

In case you haven't realized yet, I have never /e slapped someone in my entire life. I'm not asking because I'm dying to harass people; I'm asking because I believe in allowing people some level of fundamental rights.

[ImpousVileTerror]

I think calling the use of a slap emote a "fundamental right" is pretty disingenuous.

[arcane]

2 minutes ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

I think calling the use of a slap emote a "fundamental right" is pretty disingenuous.

Jesus christ that is not what I meant. Now that you know better, please do not mischaracterize me again. What I meant is that any team of GM's worth anything would want to avoid subjecting their player base to excessive and frivolous banning. A player's ability to play the game should not be taken away lightly if the GM group in question is competent. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by arcaneholocaust

[Heraclea]

On 7/11/2020 at 9:44 AM, Bentley Berkeley said:

So pvper and non pvper alike, what do you think, should one who asks to be left alone in an open pvp zone be fair game or is it fair game for them to report those who do attack them for harassment?

Who would you fight?  Even in most of the regular PvP zones, heroes/vigilantes are one side, villains/rogues the other.  Since villains just can't wander into blueside or vice versa, and on a number of occasions when they got in by bug, villains get attacked by police drones and NPCs, there would be no one to fight even if they flagged.

 

The risk of being sucked into PvP is one of the hazards of going to PvP zones. even if you're just there for badges, Shivans, or AVs/Heroes.  I remember Twixt. 

 

 

 

 

[Haijinx]

I'm tired of being attacked by NPCs all the time.

 

No matter what zone I'm in, they always try to murder me without warning. 

[Heraclea]

4 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I'm tired of being attacked by NPCs all the time.

 

No matter what zone I'm in, they always try to murder me without warning. 

Have you tried reasoning with them first?

[Zeraphia]

I think there is some sincere merit to the conversation, maybe creating a replica zone of the PvP zones that has the same PvE events but is non-PvP. So that way Warburg, Siren's Call, RV, Bloody Bay are still there, you can still do their PvE events even in the PvP zones, but say there's a replica of each of the zones that is non-PvP flagged, that way there is no griefing for badgers, PvPers are minimally affected, much of the zones would have the same coding, a lot less harassment inquiries for the devs, etc.? 

 

Just a thought!

[Frostbiter]

52 minutes ago, arcaneholocaust said:

In case you haven't realized yet, I have never /e slapped someone in my entire life. I'm not asking because I'm dying to harass people; I'm asking because I believe in allowing people some level of fundamental rights.

I believe in people's right to do whatever, right up until people prove they aren't responsible enough for that. Our laws are littered with examples of this. For instance; most cities won't allow the keeping of personal livestock on less than a 1/2 acre of grazing area, if they allow it at all. It was not always that way. The deciding issue in these cases is almost always the ability to show harm.

 

In short, humans can ruin just about anything for everyone else. It does indeed irk me.