Flying through and missing content, zones, arcs etc.

[Chequers]

Hi all,

 

First off, I'm so happy to be revisiting CoH after about 15 years. I mainly played in some of the early days, around the Christmas of 2004, up until a little after CoV was released. I did duck back in and out over the years, specifically when some new power sets were released, and very briefly when the AE update landed.

 

It's wonderful to be exploring Paragon again: there's so much more content than I remember... which is fantastic, but also a bit of head-scratcher, as I'm not too sure the best way to approach it.

 

Originally, I remember doing missions in Atlas, before spending time in Kings Row, with a diversion to The Hollows and Perez Park, before being sent on my way to Steel Canyon and Skyway. 

 

But I've noticed that because there are far more contacts and missions to engage with, I'm completely missing huge swathes of the game. I did a few missions in Atlas - including a lengthy arc from a new contact called Aaron Thiery, before getting caught up in an excellent couple of arcs from Twinshot, which took me to Kings Row, and led to another arc from Eagle Eye. By the time I'd finished, I was way past the level to begin the Hollows, but wanting to relive that experience, I paused XP gain at level 14 to go through the arcs there.

 

But now I've gotten the next arc from Twinshot to go through - and I feel like it's going to bypass a lot more content. I've barely done any of the standard missions arcs (except for ensuring I do the ones that grab the Negotiator and Spelunker Badges). And leaving some of those beloved zones behind.

 

I've not even been to Perez Park or Galaxy City (which doesn't seem to exist anymore?). Was this an intentional design choice? To pick either doing the longer Twinshot / Eagle Eye / new contact arcs, or just the standard progression? Don't get me wrong, the content is fantastic - the writing is top notch; it looks like they've upgraded missions to have cutscenes etc... but I just feel like I'm bypassing a lot of the zones and regular contacts.

 

I appreciate that you can't do everything in one play through, and I'm happy to freeze XP gain. I also know there's Oroborous to do something called 'Flashback' to go back over outlevelled content... but that just doesn't appeal to me from a character development and roleplay perspective.

 

I just wondered if anyone else had been overwhelmed by the amount of content, or had any insight into some of the design decisions for players. None of it's bad - I just want to make sure I'm not missing out. It never felt like so much of an 'either/or' before, and while obviously certain contacts would be missed, it felt like there was more of a definitive progression across the city zones before, whereas now it feels like I'm barely seeing some of them.

[Ukase]

Welcome back. Have you learned/relearned about Ouroboros? No need to stop XP, you can revisit pretty much 99% of that content through Ouroboros. If you're not familiar with it, simply ask someone in the help channel, they'll break it down for you. 

In short, it's a zone where there are several crystals, contacts, where you can click on them, go in tf mode, solo or teamed, and be automatically exemped to the cap of that contact's arc. 

You can get there via someone else's ouroboros portal (temp power), Echo:Galaxy City, (via SG beacon) Echo:Dark Astoria (also via SG beacon). For those with villains, you can only access through Echo:Dark Astoria. 

You can get there on HC server at level 1, but can't do any content within until level 15. (on live, you had to be level 14 to make the trip.) But you can get there on HC, as stated, at level 1, and work on day job badge if you like. 

You can also go via someone else's portal and get the exploration badge on top of that arch, which "entrusts you with the secret", and gives you the portal. There's also a few missions that will give you the portal upon completion, but the only one I know on top of my head is the initial contact out of Faultline, Jim Temblor. 

[Apparition]

Welcome back to Paragon City and the Rogue Isles!

 

If you play blue side, a lot of the early leveling experience has changed.  Galaxy City was sadly destroyed by a Shivan meteor in Issue 21.  Atlas Park is the one and only blue side starting zone now, unfortunately.  With the destruction of Galaxy City came a revamp of the blue side lowbie experience.  Because there were so many people leveling blue side lowbie alts over and over and over again over the years, people got tired of the same old thing.  So now there are multiple ways to level blue side.  You have the Shining Stars story arcs with Twinshot, followed by Shauna Stockwell in Kings Row, then you can do the Faultine mission arcs (which I strongly recommend).  Or you can do it the old school way with the Hollows, etc.  It's up to you.

 

Like Ukase said, there was a new system added around Issue 13, called the Ouroboros Flashback system.  It allows you to "flashback" and play low level story arcs via in-game time travel.  It essentially acts like your own task force, where you can play the vast majority of the game's story arcs.  So you can certainly pause XP like you've been doing, or continue to level and then go back and experience the story arcs by "flashing back" to them via Ouroboros.

[MTeague]

In the early issues, it was as you remember it.  XP was much slower.  It was not unheard of to run out of missions.  XP debt could also pile up quite high, slowing your levelling even more, as people got used to the game. People died more. There was no Inherent Fitness. There were zero freebie extra attacks like Sands or Mu or Blackwand, etc. There were no IO bonuses. A lot of quality of life changes hadn't happened yet. 

 

What you have now is... remember that City of Heroes ran for about eight years... 2004 to 2012.  So you have eight years of MMO expansions.... with all the extra content that brings.... but *very* few new zones got added.  There are new tutorials, like the Twinshot story arcs. There are events literally DESIGNED to encourage extremely rapid levelling, like DFB.  The Positron TF is no longer the heartbraeking nightmare it used to be, and debt barely registers anymore until midgame. And of course all the "Veteran Rewards" powers that used to be only avialable to people who'd played the game for years, are now available to any and all for a pittance of in-game currency at the P2W vendor, many of them outright free.

 

On top of all that, XP gain is boosted. 

 

The result is quite a bit of power creep.

 

I know you said Ouro and flashbacks don't really appeal to you from a character development point of view. But... really... I encourage you to find someway to work with it.  You will either have to shut down XP very often.... or flashback a fair amount.... or take pains to create a LARGE number of alts and carefully navigate which alts do which missions.... or miss quite a bit of content.  Because tehre is an ASTOUNDING amount of content, and not just at endgame.  Every level range has a huge number of contacts and story arcs you can do.  And then  you have the Radio/Newspaper missions and the associated Bank missions.  AND the tip missions and the alignment system.   

 

Without Ouroborus, I can't imagine anyway to avoid feeling like I'd missed out on a lot.

[EmmySky]

Altitis.

 

Welcome back and enjoy your new addiction.  There are so many arcs and contacts and such, I take different characters on different journeys.  

 

Happy hunting!

[Chequers]

Thanks all for the welcome! It's good to be back.

 

And really great responses guys, thanks - I have to remember that there was nearly a decade of content added since I stopped playing, and a lot of that content was to make the grind for veterans easier to navigate, and provide new and exciting missions for their new characters. The new content is all wonderful, and I appreciate you explaining some of the additions and paths, what happened with Galaxy City, etc. It does make sense that there should be multiple levelling paths to take. I was just a bit bamboozled when I finished an arc and had raced through multiple levels, knowing that there was heaps of juicy content that I was missing out on.

 

I absolutely remembering levelling far far more slowly. Being able to do lots of contact missions, getting together with friends for a Task Force, and still not missing out on areas at the end. Power creep is definitely a big thing I'm noticing, which I'm sure will be helpful on my next character, but does sap some of the excitement from new powers and milestones. Getting a travel power at level 14 was an exciting moment that opened up so much more of the world. Seems like you can get it straight away now, without a prerequisite power... but I get that these are quality of life changes, designed for a player base that isn't discovering things for the first time. There's nothing stopping me from picking Air Superiority at 4, and then Fly at level 14 like the old days.

 

I'll definitely follow some of these unfamiliar arcs, safe in the knowledge that it's just an alternative path to take. And I'll go back over the original content through Flashback. My main issue with Ouroboros is that I remember a lot of the story arcs set up later story arcs, introducing characters and allies and plots etc. What I'm concerned about, is completing a story arc, and then having to 'going back in time' to play through the arc that introduced some of the characters, almost like a prequel. I'd rather do it linearly, but appreciate that's a niche reason - and I'll live with it.

 

Ultimately, I think it comes down to entirely selfish nostalgia and wanting to recreate that original experience as I remember it way-back-when. I'm essentially a new player again, presented with more choices than I know what to do with, and not wanting to miss anything. Most of all, I'm just glad I get the opportunity to fly around Paragon and be a hero again; this game is timeless, and wonderful.

 

 

Edited July 27, 2020 by Chequers

[Shred Monkey]

It's ok to tell Twinshot, or any contact, to go suck an egg so that you can move on to another contact of your choosing.  Superheros do it all the time.  Heck, for some on-screen heroes it's one of their defining personality attributes.  (Wolverine's cameo in X-Men First Class, Jessica Jones in basically every episode).  Not to mention that if you're like most of us, by the time you're done with the twinshot arc, you're considering being a villain because every hero you've met makes you want to punch them in the face.

[Chequers]

Alas, I'm also a sucker for badges! And in fairness, some of these new arcs are genuinely pretty well written, and feel like a move away from some of the more grindier arcs of the past, so I'm happy to give them a go.

 

It just feels like so much of the achievement milestones have been done away with. Such as taking a while to level up. Obtaining a travel power at level 14 after a prerequisite power. Getting a cape, or an aura at higher levels after doing a story mission. It feels like everything is served up straight away. Even little things like not having to cross Steel Canyon to switch monorail lines.

 

I completely get why that's the case - and I'm not complaining about it. These things are great when you're a new player on your first toon like I effectively am, experiencing zones and missions for the first time. But when you're on your 10th character, it's tedious to have to go through all that faff when you just want to make costumes and try out power sets at higher levels. And spending ages having to switch between monorail lines or rely on Sprint until level 14 probably becomes a bore.

 

But still... there's just a little bit of charm lost in the process of adding these quality of life additions - including making it really easy to fly through content - for me. 

 

 

[laudwic]

I try to do different aspects of the content with different characters.  Like I took a Sentinel through the Going Rogue set.  My next was Red content only.  Another was doing first ward.  My next one will go to the Hallows.  I still haven't done Croatoa, so that will be another one.

 

You can't do all the content with one character (except by turning off xp or Oroboros) but you can have fresh stuff for your next alt.

[nightroarer]

I think having so much content is a great boon, at least for those of use who like to play multiple characters (I refuse to say "alts." I have no alts, just lots and lots of mains). It can probably be a little overwhelming for new players or those who have not played in a long time.

 

My wife and I have a new team that we turned off XP at level 4--so that we could do all the missions for all five original contacts in Atlas. We turned XP back on when we reached the final mission in each arc. I also have a character with whom I used the base portal to go to Echo Galaxy and level to 8 via street sweeping. I set up my own RP-style storylines so that it did not just feel like street sweeping. I also got all the Galaxy badges.

 

I have characters that go through the old tutorial and run only the older missions, others that go through the new tutorial and focus on the newer missions, and characters that mix and match content. Stir in radio missions, tip missions, and AE custom story missions (not farms for me), and each character can have a fairly unique leveling experience.

 

To me this keeps the game fresh and adds to the replayability of CoH.

[Johnny]

2 hours ago, Chequers said:

It just feels like so much of the achievement milestones have been done away with. Such as taking a while to level up. Obtaining a travel power at level 14 after a prerequisite power. Getting a cape, or an aura at higher levels after doing a story mission. It feels like everything is served up straight away. Even little things like not having to cross Steel Canyon to switch monorail lines.

 

I completely get why that's the case - and I'm not complaining about it. These things are great when you're a new player on your first toon like I effectively am, experiencing zones and missions for the first time. But when you're on your 10th character, it's tedious to have to go through all that faff when you just want to make costumes and try out power sets at higher levels. And spending ages having to switch between monorail lines or rely on Sprint until level 14 probably becomes a bore.

 

But still... there's just a little bit of charm lost in the process of adding these quality of life additions - including making it really easy to fly through content - for me. 

I remember that the cape restriction was a bother to rp'ers because they would create concept characters that would spend more time interacting with other characters, but be extremely slow to level. So they would wear trenchcoats as a placeholder for capes.

 

For me, I would do a considerable about of exemplaring because it was fun playing with new players that needed a hand with their missions. But this required being careful about the order in which you chose your powers when levelling, so that you had certain powers available at low level.

[Abraxus]

Welcome home!  Makes me happy every time I hear of another player who found their way back!

 

As you have noticed, and others have said as well, it is a different experience.  A couple of major things contribute to that, I think.    First, this server was based on the I25 code (which was a lot of stuff that was under development at the time of shut-down, but never implemented.  There was a server running in the 7 years that the game was gone, and certain changes were made to XP, and markets to compensate for the low population there.  Many of those changes were there when Homecoming launched, and have prevailed.  Second, the game is no longer profit driven, so there is no concern about folks terminating their subscriptions when they had played through available content.

 

Now, we play because we love the game, and look forward to seeing how it develops from here.  There have been some mission arcs added, some new archetypes, new powers, proliferation of existing powers.  Given the fact that this is all run by a group of volunteers, it's nothing short of amazing.  What we have now is a game with a LOT of content (between the blue, red, and gold stuff), that very few folks even make an effort to experience.  It takes a little more concerted effort to do that, but it's more about the fact that you have complete freedom about how to go about it.  Want it easy?  Well, it's easier than it used to be.  Want it harder, turn up the difficulty to meet your needs!  Want to slow things down, stop XP.  Want to speed it up more?  Buy XP boosters!  Want to do it all?  Well, you might have to spread it between multiple toons, but it's totally do-able! 

 

Have fun, and welcome back!  Also, feel free to reach out to the community in-game, here on the forum, and on Discord.  Also, the GM staff is available for questions as well.  There are many ways to help you find what you are looking for, so don't hesitate to use them!

[Argent Aegis]

3 hours ago, Shred Monkey said:

It's ok to tell Twinshot, or any contact, to go suck an egg so that you can move on to another contact of your choosing.  Superheros do it all the time.  Heck, for some on-screen heroes it's one of their defining personality attributes.  (Wolverine's cameo in X-Men First Class, Jessica Jones in basically every episode).  Not to mention that if you're like most of us, by the time you're done with the twinshot arc, you're considering being a villain because every hero you've met makes you want to punch them in the face.

This......I enjoyed going Vigilante and having the opportunity to defeat Flambeux....and she still talks too much even when face planted.

 

Also - one warning in regards to doing flashbacks.  I haven't found a way to flashback to complete the leveled Safeguard & Mayhem missions.  I have to find a willing team member (or dual box with an alt) in that level range to join the missions so I can get the badges for the accolades.  

[DoctorDitko]

Redside, once you get Hero Slayer badge you unlock Lord Schweinzer, who will give you all the mayhem missions for which you have the required level. Grab those explore badges! (If you reject his first offering, you can "Talk about something else" and get an ordered list, very handy.)

 

He's my favorite contact in Port Oakes. I dearly wish he had a counterpart on blueside!

Edited July 27, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[iBot]

3 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

Redside, once you get Hero Slayer badge you unlock Lord Schweinzer, who will give you all the mayhem missions for which you have the required level. Grab those explore badges! (If you reject his first offering, you can "Talk about something else" and get an ordered list, very handy.)

 

He's my favorite contact in Port Oakes. I dearly wish he had a counterpart on blueside!

Blue side has the same thing.  Once you defeat 25 named villains there is a contact in Steel Canyon that allows access to any of the safeguard missions.  I forget the name and can't look at the moment.

[DoctorDitko]

Wow! Thanks1.0x10^6!!

Your are right, he's an unlockable David Hassselhoff-lookalike called Agent Hassel!

Thanks so much!

Edited July 27, 2020 by DoctorDitko

[VV]

Don't be in such a rush. You have 1000 character slots per shard. Plenty of time to do all the content. I mean, assuming it doesn't go away anytime soon, which is doesn't look like it will. 

[Argent Aegis]

52 minutes ago, DoctorDitko said:

Redside, once you get Hero Slayer badge you unlock Lord Schweinzer, who will give you all the mayhem missions for which you have the required level. Grab those explore badges! (If you reject his first offering, you can "Talk about something else" and get an ordered list, very handy.)

 

He's my favorite contact in Port Oakes. I dearly wish he had a counterpart on blueside!

 

47 minutes ago, iBot said:

Blue side has the same thing.  Once you defeat 25 named villains there is a contact in Steel Canyon that allows access to any of the safeguard missions.  I forget the name and can't look at the moment.

I did not know about these contacts!!  Thanks.  That would/will save me a lot of headache trying to get in those missions.  Played COH in live and now Homecoming and I'm learning there is still surprises to be found in this game.

[MTeague]

4 hours ago, Chequers said:

I completely get why that's the case - and I'm not complaining about it. These things are great when you're a new player on your first toon like I effectively am, experiencing zones and missions for the first time. But when you're on your 10th character, it's tedious to have to go through all that faff when you just want to make costumes and try out power sets at higher levels. And spending ages having to switch between monorail lines or rely on Sprint until level 14 probably becomes a bore.

 

But still... there's just a little bit of charm lost in the process of adding these quality of life additions - including making it really easy to fly through content - for me. 

You're not wrong at all.   It just means you have to set these milestones for yourself as 'personal' unlocks as opposed to game-driven unlocks.

 

I personally disable XP every 5 levels.... at 9, at 14, at 19, at 24, at 29, etc.... until I've done enough story arcs at that stage that I'm happy, AND done enough radio/paper missions for the Safeguard/Mayhem mission (and the Explore badge in each one).  I also do not use the "enterbasefrompasscode" command and prefer to manually travel around the city, sometimes by rail, sometimes by street zone connections, sometimes by Pocket D, sometimes by Midnighter Club, etc. 

 

You just have to decide what kind of things you want to "gate" for yourself.

 

[Chequers]

Absolutely spot on, thanks everyone for helping me formulate my thoughts. There's nothing stopping me from making my own fun, and setting my own goals.

 

I've also realised there are very defined level-bands, with arcs, accomplishment badges, and a task force at each level. So what I'm doing is freezing my XP until I've done the arcs that give me the accomplishment badges (Negotiator, Spelunker etc), and some of the new ones (like Shining Star etc), and the finishing the Task Force and any Trials before moving on. I also am making sure I read all the history plaques and grab the exploration badges in the zones that I'm taken to.

 

Using the above framework, I've just finished the Positron task force, done the Trial of Transcendence, and feel like I've enjoyed a lot of the content on offer, and I'm ready for 15-20 range now.

 

I'm happy to miss some general contact story arcs in pursuit of those above goals, and I can sweep back through Flashback to play through those. Any other content you'd recommend I not miss?

 

 

[Apparition]

1 hour ago, Chequers said:

I'm happy to miss some general contact story arcs in pursuit of those above goals, and I can sweep back through Flashback to play through those. Any other content you'd recommend I not miss?

 

 

 

As I said before, I very highly recommend the Faultline story arcs... in Faultine. :D  They're level 15 to 24, and start with Jim Temblor.  You won't be introduced to him, unfortunately, so most new players (and returning players like yourself), are completely unaware he exists.  You have to go to Faultline via Skyway City (or SG base portal), and introduce yourself to him.  He'll get you started.

 

I also recommend Laura Lockhart and Graham Easton, both found in Steel Canyon.  They're also level 15 to 24, and will not introduce themselves to you.  Their story arcs were some of the last added to the game prior to sunset, and are excellent.

[EmmySky]

21 minutes ago, Apparition said:

 

As I said before, I very highly recommend the Faultline story arcs... in Faultine. 😄 They're level 15 to 24, and start with Jim Temblor.  You won't be introduced to him, unfortunately, so most new players (and returning players like yourself), are completely unaware he exists.  You have to go to Faultline via Skyway City (or SG base portal), and introduce yourself to him.  He'll get you started.

 

I also recommend Laura Lockhart and Graham Easton, both found in Steel Canyon.  They're also level 15 to 24, and will not introduce themselves to you.  Their story arcs were some of the last added to the game prior to sunset, and are excellent.

And at 20 find Keith Nance in Talos and follow his arc and then Jenni (something).  Very cool, you get to find yourself.

[cranebump]

You can also “Teleport to contact” for some of these arcs (Eagle Eye, for example). I think Laura Lockhart may be one of these?

[Chequers]

Hi all - me again.

 

Thanks for your above advice, I've been progressing nicely, following story arcs that you've suggested, freezing XP to make sure I don't outlevel content, and having an absolute blast juggling 'old' content, and the stuff they added since last time I played. There's some incredibly well written stories here! My favourite so far is definitely the Faultline arcs, but I've had loads of fun with some of the one off arcs too - particularly Laura Lockhart's (..both times..).

 

But I've hit a bit of a progression snag. I was reading a Good Missions Guide that has helped me coordinate where I should be aiming to go next. It took me to Striga Isle, and suggested I do the first arcs there, and then head over to First Ward to play through that content.

 

But something feels a bit... off. I'm trying not to spoil anything for myself by reading up on the wiki... but this content feels so far removed from simply 'new content' - it's like a whole different game. I've heard various mentions about Praetoria throughout my adventure, and fought 'mirrored' versions of enemy mobs. I've now learned from playing through some of First Ward that praetorian Earth is like an alternate version of the world where Paragon City exists... that's fine... but...

 

Should I be here? Something I've noticed on Homecoming (and perhaps it was this way when the live servers closed), is that all content is available to everyone. It looks like I can change alignment, go to any location, etc - so I'm not locked out of any area or content. But I don't want to stumble into content that, as a hero, I shouldn't. I'll roll a Villain when I want to go through 'redside' stuff etc.

 

I guess Praetoria was added as one of the expansions after I stopped playing... and while I've really enjoyed playing through the first few arcs in First Ward that are excellent - I can't help but feel like there was meant to be a lot of backstory that I've missed out on - perhaps because it was designed for characters created in Villains or Going Rogue. It just feels like there's a bigger story happening, and I've jumped in halfway through.

 

Can someone give me a bit of clarity around when/what Praetoria is and when it was added. I'm happy to continue going through this content, freezing my XP so I don't outlevel Blueside content... but I'm on something like my 5th story arc in First Ward... so it feels like I'm being directed further and further away from Paragon.

 

Thanks for accommodating a newbie!

 

Edited August 11, 2020 by Chequers

[Grouchybeast]

5 hours ago, Chequers said:

Can someone give me a bit of clarity around when/what Praetoria is and when it was added. I'm happy to continue going through this content, freezing my XP so I don't outlevel Blueside content... but I'm on something like my 5th story arc in First Ward... so it feels like I'm being directed further and further away from Paragon.

 

Praetoria is an alternate Earth, as you say.  You might remember the Praetorian villains like Anti-Matter from when you played before.  However, with Going Rogue (I18), the devs added three new level 1-20 zones allowing characters to start as Praetorians, and also revamped the old Praetorian content like A Hero's Hero to  match the revised lore. 

 

First Ward was added to Praetoria in Issue 21, specifically as a co-op zone for Heroes, Villains and Praetorians.   The Hero and Villain contacts that pop up at level 20 were added at the same time.  (There is a way for Praetorians to get from Imperial City to First Ward, but it's relatively obscure, and I'd say that the gameplay strongly guides Praetorians towards leaving for Primal Earth at 20 and then going back to FW.)

 

So to answer your question, yes, it's perfectly legit for your character to be in First Ward, in terms of how the live devs intended the game to play.  While playing FW with a character who started as a Praetoria does add something, in terms of knowing more about Praetoria and having met some of the NPCs before, I wouldn't personally say it was necessary.  I think it perhaps feels a bit disconnected from the game around it because it was originally added as VIP/Paragon Market paid content, so it's set up so that it doesn't leave too jagged a hole in the game for the players who hadn't bought it.

 

I hope that's helpful.  If not, just ask and I can elaborate -- I tried to avoid any spoilers!