World Enemy levels

[Konflict]

There is lots of old content that is rarely used due to out levelling because of fast levels and whatnot. Example: defeat badges for killing 1000 skulls and nothing as a reward because the mobs are too low.

 

So my suggestion is to make all the enemies in all cities like the Rikti/Zombie/Nemesis Invasion events where there is no level requirements and still get xp/rewards.

 

This will create more teamplay and feel more rewarding when badge hunting and will give the players other ways to gain xp other than AE and paper/radio mission.

 

[Omega-202]

17 minutes ago, Konflict said:

There is lots of old content that is rarely used due to out levelling because of fast levels and whatnot. Example: defeat badges for killing 1000 skulls and nothing as a reward because the mobs are too low.

 

So my suggestion is to make all the enemies in all cities like the Rikti/Zombie/Nemesis Invasion events where there is no level requirements and still get xp/rewards.

 

This will create more teamplay and feel more rewarding when badge hunting and will give the players other ways to gain xp other than AE and paper/radio mission.

 

You can exemplar down to any level you'd like to using Ouroboros.  For example, if you want rewards for hunting Skulls in Perez Park (lvl 7-14), then you can just use Ouro to take a Story Arc in that level range (I believe Flux/Frostfire puts you at 9, Bonefire puts you at 14).  

 

I don't think it makes sense to have all zones as universal content.  It doesn't make sense for Superman to be threatened by a thug with a knife, which is what a lvl50 incarnate vs a Skull would be. 

[Llewellyn Blackwell]

40 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

You can exemplar down to any level you'd like to using Ouroboros.  For example, if you want rewards for hunting Skulls in Perez Park (lvl 7-14), then you can just use Ouro to take a Story Arc in that level range (I believe Flux/Frostfire puts you at 9, Bonefire puts you at 14).  

 

I don't think it makes sense to have all zones as universal content.  It doesn't make sense for Superman to be threatened by a thug with a knife, which is what a lvl50 incarnate vs a Skull would be. 

Actually it was one of the things often talked about back on live, and one the Devs did seem to be considering. Batman and Superman are both security level 50 in coh, no doubt about that, Ones security level while it represents what kind of threats we can face, does not directly imply a specific level of super power. Nor is superman a good choice to use as none of us in game can ever be his level of invuln or dps.

 

However lets look at say any actual mortal character from comicdom. Every single one of them can be if caught off guard at least mildly annoyed by even a street thug.  And keep in mind we dont have those kind of thugs in Paragon. The Skulls, Hellions, Trolls, outcasts, just to name the lowest tier street gangs in Paragon, boast magical control of the elements, demonic entities, have members that can fly, etc etc.

 

It actually would be the needed first step in then being able to look at different factions, assign them as a faction a challenge rating and award xp more accurately based on the threat of the faction. Thus people who hunt harder mob types would see greater rewards then those who farm easy factions.

 

 

[Omega-202]

49 minutes ago, Bentley Berkeley said:

just a demand for a want, that if it comes to pass will put the onus on those, who are currently happy with things as they are, to adapt to the demands of others because if they dont then they will be the one blamed, rather than those demanding another play their way

From a recent post of yours.

 

I thought you were against changes that would put the onus on those who are happy with the way things are?  Seems like a pretty big change for no other reason than a "want".  

[Troo]

I kinda get what the request here is.. and still it's a no. (maybe different response down the road)

[Greycat]

Solution: Run the content at level instead of PLing yourself.

 

There's a lot more work to getting mobs to work "at any level," and frankly they don't often scale well. (For instance, lowbies vs Rikti invasions don't tend to fare well, even though the mobs are "levelless.") What is a level 50-worthy Skull going to look like? WHY would there be a level 50 skull? We take down their leaders in the teens. They're thugs and drug dealers with a small side of magic. The Hellions are... thugs with a bit of magic who get put in their place by Warriors and Tsoo.

 

No, outleveling these guys makes perfect sense. Also,

 

3 hours ago, Konflict said:

 Example: defeat badges for killing 1000 skulls and nothing as a reward because the mobs are too low.

If you're at level, you get the XP with the badge. If you're above level the badge (and possible subsequent badges for hitting X number of badges, damage done, etc.) is the reward. If you don't feel that's a reward, that's personal preference.

[Noyjitat]

If the zone event stats or giant monster  stats are applied to all npcs in every zone or even hazard zones it would allow you to street sweep anywhere as often as you wanted. The npcs would lose combat level and instead con orange, red, purple etc depending on the neighborhood.

 

npc dfficulty
Green neighborhoods - white

Yellow neighborhood - yellow

Dark yellow neighborhood  - orange and red

Red neighborhood  - Red and purple

 

the game already sorta does this if you are new and minimum level to the zone.

 

they could try this in a few zones especially mid to high level or make alternate “Patrol Zones” of each zone. So for those that dont want to partake would not be forced to do so. 
 

Even an option of being exemplared down by lets say the trainer of the zone. Visit ms liberty and she temporarily exemplars you down until you enter a mission or leave the zone. But this also needs to allow inviting people during the exemplar. Much like inviting people during ae. What sucks the most about ouroboros is not

being able to invite after it starts. Its a do or nothing deal and teams dont always last as long for ouro like they do for tfs.

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Noyjitat

[Outrider_01]

4 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

Bonefire puts you at 14).  

Ok, I need some better directions on how to find this guy.  

1. Do you need to run through the introduction Oroborus mission?

2. Who has it exactly?

3. I apparently need to run up my controller and find this guy

4. ???

5.  PROFIT! Beat this guy's ass, this 🤬 guy is going down 😡 for impersonating my Fire/Kin controller 😒

 

Never even knew this NPC existed or I was totally oblivious.  Like I3 or post I5 something when Fire/Kin started to become FoTM, rolled him and had a blast just being a goofball idiot with him.  Dude was a former Hellion/Skull/Outcast (depending on which story he told) who founds his true calling, cracking heads and breaking skulls along with his annoying imps whose initial letters was BBQ (Q was a gothic foreign exchange Imp from Germany, don't ask).

[Omega-202]

14 minutes ago, Outrider_01 said:

Ok, I need some better directions on how to find this guy.  

1. Do you need to run through the introduction Oroborus mission?

2. Who has it exactly?

3. I apparently need to run up my controller and find this guy

4. ???

5.  PROFIT! Beat this guy's ass, this 🤬 guy is going down 😡 for impersonating my Fire/Kin controller 😒

 

Never even knew this NPC existed or I was totally oblivious.  Like I3 or post I5 something when Fire/Kin started to become FoTM, rolled him and had a blast just being a goofball idiot with him.  Dude was a former Hellion/Skull/Outcast (depending on which story he told) who founds his true calling, cracking heads and breaking skulls along with his annoying imps whose initial letters was BBQ (Q was a gothic foreign exchange Imp from Germany, don't ask).

https://archive.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Lorenzo_DiCosta#Story_Arc

 

1. No

2. Lorenzo DiCosta is one of the potential contacts

3. Have any character lvl15+ go to a Pillar of Ice and Fire in Ouroboros (or SG base) and pick the right arc from the list.

4.  !

5. The NPC almost definitely predates your Controller...so that makes you the impersonator.

[MTeague]

1 hour ago, Noyjitat said:

Even an option of being exemplared down by lets say the trainer of the zone. Visit ms liberty and she temporarily exemplars you down until you enter a mission or leave the zone. But this also needs to allow inviting people during the exemplar. Much like inviting people during ae. What sucks the most about ouroboros is not

being able to invite after it starts. Its a do or nothing deal and teams dont always last as long for ouro like they do for tfs.

 

I'd be on board with a means to exemplar yourself down to the zone's normal range. 

 

I do not like the idea of everything scaling up.  A great many mob types simply do not exist outside normal level ranges, and just adding more HP/To-Hit/Def/Res is not really the same thing as facing an enemy who was actually DESIGNED to go up to 50 and who actually has access to a complete array of powers in their powersets. 

[ShardWarrior]

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

Solution: Run the content at level instead of PLing yourself.

It is very easy to out level entire story arcs and contacts without PLing yourself.

2 hours ago, Greycat said:

There's a lot more work to getting mobs to work "at any level," and frankly they don't often scale well.

This would be the main reason I see why this would not get done. 

 

 

Edited August 4, 2020 by ShardWarrior

[Lines]

On the basis that the streets are practically a useless gameplay feature, I'd like to see any step towards making them feel like they offer some value. So I'd be behind the OP's idea.

 

But I think an overhaul is in order. Especially one that makes hunt missions interesting.

[Outrider_01]

3 hours ago, Omega-202 said:

5. The NPC almost definitely predates your Controller...so that makes you the impersonator.

Rules of time travel, my controller is just Joe Chump from the present who went to the future to protect the past.  Or went to the present from the future to protect the past.  the past to the future to protect the present ?  He doesn't know, he just cracks skull and bust heads, so with all the time travel the other guy is the impersonator.

[Grouchybeast]

Sorry, but no.  I don't want everywhere in CoX to feel the same.  I want my level 50 character to stroll through Perez Park like an awesome untouchable badass.  Preferably, I want someone to tweak the enemy AI so that the Skulls cower at my passing, praying that I don't choose that moment to tidy the streets up with a casual fireball.  If it wouldn't make it inconvenient for badge hunting, I'd say they should scatter in terror and dive through the nearest doorway.

 

(I definitely wouldn't be opposed to a trainer offering the option to exemp a character, though.  That would be cool.)

[ZacKing]

14 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

Sorry, but no.  I don't want everywhere in CoX to feel the same.  I want my level 50 character to stroll through Perez Park like an awesome untouchable badass.  Preferably, I want someone to tweak the enemy AI so that the Skulls cower at my passing, praying that I don't choose that moment to tidy the streets up with a casual fireball.  If it wouldn't make it inconvenient for badge hunting, I'd say they should scatter in terror and dive through the nearest doorway.

 

(I definitely wouldn't be opposed to a trainer offering the option to exemp a character, though.  That would be cool.)

seconded!

[srmalloy]

20 hours ago, Noyjitat said:

If the zone event stats or giant monster  stats are applied to all npcs in every zone or even hazard zones it would allow you to street sweep anywhere as often as you wanted. The npcs would lose combat level and instead con orange, red, purple etc depending on the neighborhood.

 

npc dfficulty
Green neighborhoods - white

Yellow neighborhood - yellow

Dark yellow neighborhood  - orange and red

Red neighborhood  - Red and purple

 

the game already sorta does this if you are new and minimum level to the zone.

they could try this in a few zones especially mid to high level or make alternate “Patrol Zones” of each zone. So for those that dont want to partake would not be forced to do so. 

Adding a level shift by region in a zone complicates the "GM code" used for the invasions, and having forced level offsets complicates mission locations -- if you get a mission door in a deep purple area of a zone, you can put off the mission for a level and have an easier time getting to it, but if the region is deep purple regardless of your level, you're stuck with it. And, for example, Steel Canyon is 10-17; you go in at 10, and you can find mobs from white to deep ultraviolet (+7 with two more steps for a boss); with this change you'll never see more than +3. This cuts off the play of people who want a really hard challenge.

[Noyjitat]

51 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Adding a level shift by region in a zone complicates the "GM code" used for the invasions, and having forced level offsets complicates mission locations -- if you get a mission door in a deep purple area of a zone, you can put off the mission for a level and have an easier time getting to it, but if the region is deep purple regardless of your level, you're stuck with it. And, for example, Steel Canyon is 10-17; you go in at 10, and you can find mobs from white to deep ultraviolet (+7 with two more steps for a boss); with this change you'll never see more than +3. This cuts off the play of people who want a really hard challenge.

Part of why I included having patrol versions of every zone or the zone exemplar system so this change would be optional and not forced on anyone.

[srmalloy]

24 minutes ago, Noyjitat said:

Part of why I included having patrol versions of every zone or the zone exemplar system so this change would be optional and not forced on anyone.

Which then changes the door mission selection code to account for whether or not to hand out a mission in that zone, spreading the impact of the change further. And things like the tram zone selection menu. This is an example of what causes programs to turn into spaghetti code -- it's not the direct change that's the issue; it's the way it has to hook into other parts of the existing code.

[Noyjitat]

Thats a backalleybrawler bs level of an excuse simply not do it. Sorta like saying the aggrocap cant be removed when another server already did it...

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Noyjitat said:

Thats a backalleybrawler bs level of an excuse simply not do it. Sorta like saying the aggrocap cant be removed when another server already did it...

Straw man fallacy. I'm pointing out, from the perspective of more than 35 years as a programmer, that in a complex piece of software, it is rarely possible to point at one thing, say "change this", and have the actual change be confined to that one thing. The problem gets more complex when the people who are being expected to do all of this a) aren't being paid to do it, b) were not involved in the original development, and c) don't have access to all of the tools used by the original developers. Changes to software are very rarely as simple or as neat as someone outside looking at the program's operation thinks it is.

[Hyperstrike]

4 hours ago, Noyjitat said:

Thats a backalleybrawler bs level of an excuse simply not do it. Sorta like saying the aggrocap cant be removed when another server already did it...

That doesn't mean it's stable or done properly.

You can hack almost anything you want out of the code.  But then you, eventually, have to clean that stuff up.

I shudder to think about what the code on places like Cake looks like under the hood.

[SwitchFade]

Sorry, this is a no vote.

 

Not only would this invalid much game lore, architecture, design, progression and intent, it would probably have significant and far reaching consequences that would break more than we can even ponder.

 

So.... No. 

[SwitchFade]

11 hours ago, Noyjitat said:

Thats a backalleybrawler bs level of an excuse simply not do it. Sorta like saying the aggrocap cant be removed when another server already did it...

Just because one can put a baby in a blender doesn't mean one should. In fact, there might be a significant amount of discomfort and remorse. 😉

 

Disclaimer: no blenders were harmed during the making of this post. All stunts were performed by trained babies on a closed course with proper safety and medical supervision. Do not attempt at home.

Edited August 6, 2020 by SwitchFade

[MTeague]

I still like the idea of having an NPC in the zone that, can Exemplar you down to the max level of that zone, for the asking.

 

a) no one has to use it who doesn't want to

b) likely to be far more contained in impact then using GIant Monster / Zombie Apocolypse levels to all existing mobs

c) no need to redesign for what kinds of powers an Outcast or Skull or Sky Raider should have when they'r fighting a lvl 54 character.

d) you could do street sweeping for XP if you were so inclined, or refuse the exemplar if you want to be incarnate terror blowing up Perez Park.

e) it would not have to impact normal mission contacts.  I mean, it'd be nice, but if the logistics sucked, those could continue to go by your real level and just Ouro as needed.

f) would be nice if it affected Newspaper/Radio though. 

[Hyperstrike]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

I still like the idea of having an NPC in the zone that, can Exemplar you down to the max level of that zone, for the asking.

 

a) no one has to use it who doesn't want to

b) likely to be far more contained in impact then using GIant Monster / Zombie Apocolypse levels to all existing mobs

c) no need to redesign for what kinds of powers an Outcast or Skull or Sky Raider should have when they'r fighting a lvl 54 character.

d) you could do street sweeping for XP if you were so inclined, or refuse the exemplar if you want to be incarnate terror blowing up Perez Park.

e) it would not have to impact normal mission contacts.  I mean, it'd be nice, but if the logistics sucked, those could continue to go by your real level and just Ouro as needed.

f) would be nice if it affected Newspaper/Radio though. 

You mean like the PVP zones?