Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones

[Poned]

45 minutes ago, macskull said:

I mean, ideally on a PvP-only server you could get XP, accolades, and enhancements the same way you do on the test server so none of this really matters.

Who are you?

[Bionic_Flea]

1 hour ago, macskull said:

I mean, ideally on a PvP-only server you could get XP, accolades, and enhancements the same way you do on the test server so none of this really matters.

If you had test server /commands to insta-50, insta-slot, insta-accolade, then  yeah a no transfer rule would be required. 

[Lines]

I think the principle is if you have a server of fundamentally differing challenge, you shouldn't be able to transfer in or out of it. Or in the very least, you can transfer 'down' difficulty, but not 'up' it - like the test server, in a way.

 

Not that I think such servers should happen...

Edited August 25, 2020 by Lines

[ClawsandEffect]

No thanks. 

 

I REALLY don't want to get ganked every time I go to Echo:Galaxy to read the damn plaque for Atlas Medallion. 

 

That's the difference between the badges in already existing PvP zones and this suggestion. The Echoes have badges that are required for certain accolades. I really don't want to have to deal with PvPers when all I want to do is get my damn accolade. 

 

I know where the PvP zones are when I'm in the mood for it. When I'm going after those accolades it's a safe bet I'm not in the mood for it right then. 

 

And you know as well as I do that if the Echoes were made into free-for-all zones it would become a favorite pastime of PvPers to make life hell for anyone who just wants to read the plaque and leave. Stalkers camped out near the plaque waiting to AS anyone who tries to get close enough to click on it? Hard pass. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by ClawsandEffect

[macskull]

You know the existing villain accolades have badges in PvP zones too, right? Most PvP zones are so unpopulated that you'd have to be incredibly unlucky to run across another player who isn't there for the same badge.

[Glacier Peak]

7 hours ago, ClawsandEffect said:

No thanks. 

 

I REALLY don't want to get ganked every time I go to Echo:Galaxy to read the damn plaque for Atlas Medallion. 

 

That's the difference between the badges in already existing PvP zones and this suggestion. The Echoes have badges that are required for certain accolades. I really don't want to have to deal with PvPers when all I want to do is get my damn accolade. 

 

I know where the PvP zones are when I'm in the mood for it. When I'm going after those accolades it's a safe bet I'm not in the mood for it right then. 

 

And you know as well as I do that if the Echoes were made into free-for-all zones it would become a favorite pastime of PvPers to make life hell for anyone who just wants to read the plaque and leave. Stalkers camped out near the plaque waiting to AS anyone who tries to get close enough to click on it? Hard pass. 

My experience differs from yours, but I don't think your opinion is any less valid. I enjoying badging and PvPing, among many other outlets in this game. Thank you for the discussion.

[Glacier Peak]

7 hours ago, ClawsandEffect said:

No thanks. 

 

I REALLY don't want to get ganked every time I go to Echo:Galaxy to read the damn plaque for Atlas Medallion. 

 

That's the difference between the badges in already existing PvP zones and this suggestion. The Echoes have badges that are required for certain accolades. I really don't want to have to deal with PvPers when all I want to do is get my damn accolade. 

 

I know where the PvP zones are when I'm in the mood for it. When I'm going after those accolades it's a safe bet I'm not in the mood for it right then. 

 

And you know as well as I do that if the Echoes were made into free-for-all zones it would become a favorite pastime of PvPers to make life hell for anyone who just wants to read the plaque and leave. Stalkers camped out near the plaque waiting to AS anyone who tries to get close enough to click on it? Hard pass. 

My experience differs from yours, but I don't think your opinion is any less valid. I enjoying badging and PvPing, among many other outlets in this game. Thank you for the discussion.

[Leogunner]

On 8/12/2020 at 4:46 PM, Ralathar44 said:

Pretty much.  I have a negative opinion of gankers from a "it's PVP!" angle.  But as far as "this is how I like to play" I don't really have a problem with it.  They are playing the game as it's designed.  It's just PVP as much as a Smart Car is a Mercedes.  Technically correct, the best kind of correct, but practically and realistically incorrect.  And in games with actual real core open world objectives like Guild Wars 2, Dark Age of Camelot, and Elder Scrolls Online they serve a vital purpose in the overall scheme by picking off stragglers to disrupt reinforcement lines, forcing people to group up and coordinate or be REKT by classes they have no chance against. (outside of the rare anti-gank hunter like me when I deign to pursue that angle)

But when you put a ganker vs traditional PVP players, they just tend to fail more often than not because they never learned how to FIGHT...they learned only how to gank.  That's not something that tends to be true the other way around.  And truly when it comes to server population open PVP and FFA servers fare very poorly in interest level relative to other types, usually outnumbered even by RP servers.

I find this comment slightly hypocritical and kind of funny.  It plays the same victimhood angle for rationalizing irrational hatred or biased judgement (not categorizing it as, but also see: prejudice, racism, sexism, etc) while also doing a self-wank off by expressing superiority both technically and morally and at no point acknowledging that there just might be antagonistic players that are just better at PvP or that have standards to not bother with people that don't fight back.

 

On 8/24/2020 at 4:18 PM, Greycat said:

See also "you don't play a way I like."

It is a bit tough for people to accept when they're caught in a moral conundrum when you shine a spotlight on it.  Don't be too hard on 'em.

 

As for you @Glacier Peak, luckily I am a self-proclaimed Devil's Advocate and you have been thoroughly painted as the devil.

 

I think the main drawback to the idea of a free-for-all PvP zone made of these echo zones is your purpose.  You say you want to increase traffic into those areas but the PvP in and of itself likely won't do that...now if it were coded as a cross-server PvP free-for-all zone, maybe the sheer novelty of being able to congregate with other servers' players might be kind of draw although I have a feeling that is far more difficult than just using a console command to tag the zone for PvP.

 

Another thought I had was with regards to another idea rolled around in another thread about friendly-fire mode.  I personally wanted to give it a shot, having missions on teams where friendly fire was a thing and how much it could change the way we play.  The zone would just need objectives/missions and you could get a bit of a taste of reality to spice things up.

 

Posters mentioned people RPing in that zone and I personally feel if there were a unique flagging system implemented in a specific zone like this where you have extreme control over who can attack you (like a dueling mechanic), that would give an even richer RP experience since a big amount of the game and lore revolves around morality, law and order, vigilantism, so on and so forth.  

 

Now there are 3 separate ideas.  Not particularly for or against the OP, I just enjoy kicking around ideas.

 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Leogunner

[srmalloy]

21 hours ago, Glacier Peak said:

My experience differs from yours, but I don't think your opinion is any less valid. I enjoying badging and PvPing, among many other outlets in this game. Thank you for the discussion.

And, as a contrast, one of the reasons I started playing CoH back in May of 2004 was that it didn't have PvP.

[macskull]

2 hours ago, srmalloy said:

And, as a contrast, one of the reasons I started playing CoH back in May of 2004 was that it didn't have PvP.

To be fair, the developers said the game was going to have PvP well before it was released.

[Glacier Peak]

3 hours ago, srmalloy said:

And, as a contrast, one of the reasons I started playing CoH back in May of 2004 was that it didn't have PvP.

Things have certainly changed since then! Glad you're still enjoying the game even with it being so different from when it was released.

[borgking001a]

I would have suggested, make them all Co-Op zones.

[Darmian]

20 hours ago, America's Angel said:

Surely the hazard zones would make more thematic sense?

 

That said, while I love PVP in this game, I don't like the idea of converting PVE zones into PVP zones.

 

What would be cool, though, is having an "opt-in" PVP switch that would make you attackable/able to attack other players who also opt-in. (With some zone exceptions, like starter zones, co-op zones, raid zones, pocket d, kallisti wharf.)

 

Imagine flying through Steel Canyon and seeing two heroes duking it out? Would be awesome.

Would it though? I mean the actual PVP zones outside RV on Indom are mostly dead apart from random badge hunters and people wanting Shivan Shards and/or Nukes.  Surely getting the PVP zones that already exist to work better in some way is better?

[Darmian]

4 hours ago, America's Angel said:

Zones are mostly fine IMO. Siren's Call was very busy post COV launch. The PVP zones are dead because Castle's stupid Issue #13 PVP changes made them unpopular on live, and incarnates made the bar-to-entry too high on homecoming.

 

If anything was changed for PVP zones, then I'd suggest:

-Having incarnates not work there / have only the alpha slot work there

-Make them all level 1-50

-Add a RWZ rikti training dummy to practice attack chains on

 

That's it.

 

 

 

The incarnate stuff only works in RV, everything else is level capped.  Level 1 -50?  That can mean different things to different people.  Do you mean make them like event mobs that con white with no visible level so they can battle anyone? Genuine curiosity there.  And the training dummy?  That's a good idea.

[macskull]

On 9/6/2020 at 2:59 PM, America's Angel said:

Surely the hazard zones would make more thematic sense?

 

That said, while I love PVP in this game, I don't like the idea of converting PVE zones into PVP zones.

 

What would be cool, though, is having an "opt-in" PVP switch that would make you attackable/able to attack other players who also opt-in. (With some zone exceptions, like starter zones, co-op zones, raid zones, pocket d, kallisti wharf.)

 

Imagine flying through Steel Canyon and seeing two heroes duking it out? Would be awesome.

I think the issue with this is that open-world PvP would further dilute the PvP population which is already only really managing to keep one zone on one server active (granted, this is aside from the very active arena community). Additionally because of the PvE/PvP powers separation implementing this would take a lot of work because at least some of the PvP-specific differences are triggered by the map the character is on.

[Greycat]

6 hours ago, America's Angel said:

-Make them all level 1-50

Dear $deity, no. It's bad enough in BB, where you've got a 15-25 range. (with the "+5 if you're exemped down," which should *really* be removed from PVP zones. Really screwed up Siren's too, AFAIC.) 1-50? They'd find a way to be even *emptier.*

[skoryy]

On 9/6/2020 at 2:59 PM, America's Angel said:

Imagine flying through Steel Canyon and seeing two heroes duking it out? Would be awesome.

It happened in Champions Online.  People 'fought' in the RenCen all the time, and, well, it wasn't that awesome.  It was just like fighting mobs, only with more blocks and kiting.

Edited September 7, 2020 by skoryy

[Greycat]

33 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

 

Currently, the only place to find PVP is:

-A hard-to-find zone, that you have to be max level to enter.

-Organised arena matches.

 

Neither of these allow players to stumble upon PVP. Open world PVP would. More stumbles = more new PVPers. (You know that all the fightclubbers would just duel under Atlas in front of all the newbies. Haha.)

 

Not saying you're wrong about RV dying, though.

Four zones, not that hard to find.

 

And people in this game pretty overwhelmingly *do not* want to "stumble upon" PVP. PVP being in the dedicated zones (and arena) is probably the best setup for this game. Nothing in there is needed for the rest of the game. People who want to go there can. Those who want nothing to do with it can completely ignore it.

[Greycat]

9 minutes ago, America's Angel said:

 

I agree that PVP is currently unpopular. Only ~4% of the game population engage in it. All that tells us is that the current system is unpopular.

 

For all we know, the lack of popularity could be because it's segregated.

 

Nope. This conversation has been had since PVP was introduced - quite a good portion of the population does not *like* PVP. Even at the height of its popularity (pre-I13, so pre-current-system,) PVP was still a *small* portion of the population. At the time, we had warzone liasons (the ones standing outside the zones, now) inside the zone, and they'd be introduced as a contact - and block you from getting others. People complained *heavily* about being forced into a PVP environment when they wanted nothing to do with it.

 

The same comments have come up when open world PVP gets mentioned - not just having everything spread out, but people don't *want* to "see heroes beating on each other in the street."

 

PVP has a long history, *regardless* of system, of not being loved by most of the population.

[Slithershot]

Big old nooooooope. 

[Leogunner]

59 minutes ago, skoryy said:

It happened in Champions Online.  People 'fought' in the RenCen all the time, and, well, it wasn't that awesome.  It was just like fighting mobs, only with more blocks and kiting.

I'm sure PvE combat is much different and more engaging.

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, America's Angel said:

Talking on behalf of what "everyone" wants in PVP is what lead to Issue #13's terrible PVP changes.

 

These convos are always more useful when we just share our own POV.

I'm going with years of history that I'm pointing out.  I'm not making assumptions here.

 

And I never stated "everyone," because quite obviously there *is* a PVP-ing population - pre-i13, *I* enjoyed PVP quite a bit, and still poke my nose in and look around for someone to fight (or at least go into the zones ready to do so, even though I'm not generally built for it,) so if you're thinking you're talking to someone who's anti-PVP, you're not.

[CU_Krow]

I vote yes.

[Greycat]

1 minute ago, CU_Krow said:

I vote yes.

We're hiding your refrigerator.

 

🙂

[CU_Krow]

10 minutes ago, Greycat said:

We're hiding your refrigerator.

 

🙂

-adds Greycat to THE list-