The Tank Gods. . .

[Bill Z Bubba]

Cold front + rain woke me up. Occurred to me that I've never actually run BZB scrap against buffed enemies. Cranked up an ITF with Werner's rules, ran in, got stomped. That extra damage is frelling brutal.

 

Went ahead and rezzed and decided to play smarter. Still ended up with another faceplant. Soooo, yea, might want to count SR out for scrappers on a buffed enemies run.

 

Side note for @nihiliieven after the antimez scream, I seem to be able to knock them down on occasion with focus, shockwave and a chance for KD in spin while their purple head glow is up.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Bill Z Bubba]

Was curious just what Buffed meant in this case so I went and looked with a power analyzer. Standard 50% tohit chance but with a +50% to damage and accuracy.

Going from Base 1 acc to 1.5 is pretty mean. Even at the softcap, minions have a 7.5% chance to hit. But at +4 they're all at 2.1 acc, right? 1.5 Buff * 1.4 for +4 = new acc? 10.5% chance to hit?

And the bosses at +4 are at 2.73 acc (1.5*1.4*1.3) so a 13.65% chance to slam you for +50% damage.

Ouch.

 

Edit: Ugh. Is that antimez scream of theirs ONLY antimez? Anyone know what else that power may be doing?

 

Oh... scrappers don't get Darkest Night like brutes and tanks can. Ummm, hmm. Ok, I'll be impressed with any scrapper that can pull it off but it ain't gonna be me.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Werner]

4 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Standard 50% tohit chance but with a +50% to damage and accuracy.

Yep, and +50% accuracy and +50% damage means 2.25 times more incoming damage than usual, with nastier spikes. As I recall, they also pick up 50% mez resistance for 2/3 normal duration of mez?

[Haijinx]

On 9/24/2020 at 1:30 PM, Bill Z Bubba said:

OK, @Werner Add me to the list. 49mins was afk but that's still a horrible time. Guess it's time to use the same respec on the brute and scrapper although I'm damn near sure BZB scrap can't pull this off no matter what I do.

 

 

 

This pretty much answers then destroys the question as to whether SR Tankers are tough enough.

 

  

[Werner]

23 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

This pretty much answers then destroys the question as to whether SR Tankers are tough enough.  

Yeah, particularly in Tanker form, where you can hit 90% resistance with quite a few hit points left, I think Super Reflexes tends to be underestimated. Even knowing the math, it can be hard to believe just how hard an SR Tanker can be to kill. It does take being fairly injured to get to maximum immortality, so I can imagine some vulnerability to damage spikes with buffed enemies, but I guess with all that juicy DDR to compensate, @Bill Z Bubba demonstrates that it's a very solid choice.

[Tsuko]

50 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

 

 

This pretty much answers then destroys the question as to whether SR Tankers are tough enough.

 

  

is there really some people believing that SR tankers are... weak ? Oo

[Gobbledigook]

I am thinking that something like this which i am building may be one of the best options for the buffed ITf.

 

Spoiler

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(3), TtnCtn-ResDam(3), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(5), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(5), RedFrt-Def(7)
Level 1: Jab -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(11), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), ShlWal-Def(15)
Level 4: True Grit -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(15), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(17), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(17), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), TtnCtn-ResDam(19)
Level 6: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Haymaker -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(23), FrcFdb-Rechg%(25)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 18: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(29), GldArm-3defTpProc(29)
Level 22: Weave -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(25), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(31), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Rct-ResDam%(33)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(33), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(34), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 28: Rage -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Build%(37), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(37)
Level 30: Knockout Blow -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dam%(48), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Hct-Acc/Rchg(50), UnbCns-Dam%(50)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 35: Gloom -- Apc-Dam%(A), GldJvl-Dam%(39), Apc-Dmg(39), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(39), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Apc-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(40), Arm-Dam%(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(43), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Ann-ResDeb%(43), PstBls-Dam%(45), JvlVll-Dam%(45)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 49: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Prv-Absorb%(46), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(45), PrfShf-End%(46)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon 
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ageless Total Radial Invocation 
------------

 

[Tsuko]

8 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

I am thinking that something like this which i am building may be one of the best options for the buffed ITf.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.7.2.10
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Super Strength
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(3), TtnCtn-ResDam(3), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(5), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(5), RedFrt-Def(7)
Level 1: Jab -- SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg(A), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprGntFis-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprGntFis-Dmg/Rchg(9), SprGntFis-Rchg/+Absorb(11), SprGntFis-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 2: Battle Agility -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(13), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), ShlWal-Def(15)
Level 4: True Grit -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(15), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(17), TtnCtn-ResDam/Rchg(17), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(19), TtnCtn-ResDam(19)
Level 6: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Haymaker -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(23), FrcFdb-Rechg%(25)
Level 12: Phalanx Fighting -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 18: Grant Cover -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 20: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(27), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(27), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(29), GldArm-3defTpProc(29)
Level 22: Weave -- ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(25), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(31), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), Rct-ResDam%(33)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- SprMghoft-Dmg/Rchg(A), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg(33), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprMghoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SprMghoft-Rchg/Res%(34), SprMghoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 28: Rage -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(36), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(36), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(37), GssSynFr--Build%(37), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(37)
Level 30: Knockout Blow -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dam%(48), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Hct-Acc/Rchg(50), UnbCns-Dam%(50)
Level 32: One with the Shield -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 35: Gloom -- Apc-Dam%(A), GldJvl-Dam%(39), Apc-Dmg(39), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(39), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Apc-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 38: Foot Stomp -- FrcFdb-Rechg%(A), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(40), Arm-Dam%(40), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(42), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(42)
Level 41: Dark Obliteration -- Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(A), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(43), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Ann-ResDeb%(43), PstBls-Dam%(45), JvlVll-Dam%(45)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 47: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 49: Tactics -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Prv-Absorb%(46), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(46)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(45), PrfShf-End%(46)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 0: Portal Jockey 
Level 0: Task Force Commander 
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Melee Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Cardiac Core Paragon 
Level 50: Void Radial Final Judgement 
Level 50: Degenerative Core Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Ageless Total Radial Invocation 
------------

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sovera]

7 hours ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Cold front + rain woke me up. Occurred to me that I've never actually run BZB scrap against buffed enemies. Cranked up an ITF with Werner's rules, ran in, got stomped. That extra damage is frelling brutal.

 

Went ahead and rezzed and decided to play smarter. Still ended up with another faceplant. Soooo, yea, might want to count SR out for scrappers on a buffed enemies run.

 

Side note for @nihiliieven after the antimez scream, I seem to be able to knock them down on occasion with focus, shockwave and a chance for KD in spin while their purple head glow is up.

The answer seems to be TW. In fact the question is TW, and the answer is yes. Ultra damage and constant KDs seem to be the answer to everything.

[Bill Z Bubba]

21 minutes ago, Sovera said:

The answer seems to be TW. In fact the question is TW, and the answer is yes. Ultra damage and constant KDs seem to be the answer to everything.

Won't be the answer for long. But warmace keeps 'em on their butts as well. Still don't think we'll see any scrappers pulling this off. Between low HP and the 75% res cap? Nah.

[nihilii]

Invul scrappers might have a good shot at this. You get to 2400hp, 75% S/L res, 40% E/N and ~35%ish def hardly trying. Then pick something with lots of KD that can also sustain reasonably high DPS without Ageless (so you can get Rebirth).

 

I want to believe it's also possible on a variety of scrapper builds, with "creative" incarnate strategies. Using Vorpal extensively for the +30% def. Soul Meld for more defense. Picking a support tree Lore for buffs half of the time.

 

I could be delusional.

[Werner]

I agree with Invuln. I earlier proposed Katana/Invuln for the extra smashing/lethal defense buffer in combination with 50% DDR to handle Cimerorans. Now I’m thinking DM/Invuln, and crank smashing/lethal defense well over 45% with bonuses and P2W to handle defense debuffs. P2W for extra regeneration. Rebirth. Not sure how high EN resist can go, but maybe 75% with P2W? Target Bright Novas to avoid their cascading defense failure. Hover for the final fight to split off Rommy. Tanker-like HP, softcap hopefully undebuffable defense, 75% resistance, good regen and healing. Sounds doable to me.

Edited September 28, 2020 by Werner

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, Werner said:

I agree with Invuln. I earlier proposed Katana/Invuln for the extra smashing/lethal defense buffer in combination with 50% DDR to handle Cimerorans. Now I’m thinking DM/Invuln, and crank smashing/lethal defense well over 45% with bonuses and P2W to handle defense debuffs. P2W for extra regeneration. Rebirth. Not sure how high EN resist can go, but maybe 75% with P2W? Target Bright Novas to avoid their cascading defense failure. Hover for the final fight to split off Rommy. Tanker-like HP, softcap hopefully undebuffable defense, 75% resistance, good regen and healing. Sounds doable to me.

P2W?!? I know they don't get turned off but doesn't that go against the spirit of the thing?

[Werner]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

P2W?!? I know they don't get turned off but doesn't that go against the spirit of the thing?

I’m no arbiter of the rules, but given that the game doesn’t turn them off, I personally consider “no P2W” as an optional additional restriction. More impressive to do it without, but still impressive to do it with. I did my Katana/Dark Brute and Dark/MA Tanker runs without. I did my Shield/MA run with because I was trying to get the best time. As with pylon runs and everything else, I think the important thing is to be up front about what you used and what you didn’t. Like I don’t generally use Lore. But there’s nothing saying I can’t. So it’s an optional additional restriction.

 

I specifically built and beta tested my Shield/MA Tanker around using the P2W Defense Amplifier, but not the Offense or Survival Amplifier. I’m willing to pay 2.5 million per hour in normal play, but not 7.5 million. So I consider P2W defense part of the build, but not the other two. Very arbitrary, and very contentious to call any of them part of a build. But I see no need for a semantic debate about what counts as part of the build and not, as long as I’m honest about what I use. I see this challenge similarly.

 

Does “no temps” turn off base empowerment buffs? I think I’ve never used them on anything ever.

[Tsuko]

17 minutes ago, Werner said:

I’m no arbiter of the rules, but given that the game doesn’t turn them off, I personally consider “no P2W” as an optional additional restriction. More impressive to do it without, but still impressive to do it with. I did my Katana/Dark Brute and Dark/MA Tanker runs without. I did my Shield/MA run with because I was trying to get the best time. As with pylon runs and everything else, I think the important thing is to be up front about what you used and what you didn’t. Like I don’t generally use Lore. But there’s nothing saying I can’t. So it’s an optional additional restriction.

 

I specifically built and beta tested my Shield/MA Tanker around using the P2W Defense Amplifier, but not the Offense or Survival Amplifier. I’m willing to pay 2.5 million per hour in normal play, but not 7.5 million. So I consider P2W defense part of the build, but not the other two. Very arbitrary, and very contentious to call any of them part of a build. But I see no need for a semantic debate about what counts as part of the build and not, as long as I’m honest about what I use. I see this challenge similarly.

 

Does “no temps” turn off base empowerment buffs? I think I’ve never used them on anything ever.

For me, it will be always without cause i feel like using a crutch to fill a hole in some set (mainly the survival one for recovery).

 

But yeah, just finishing this Hellish mess with amplifiers should not be consider less great.

 

Not to mention that a lot of set just cannot be used in those lethal parameters, "allowing" amplifier would open a lot more possibilities.

 

No amplifier + Hardcore mode (No temp pw, no inspi, no death, enemy buffed) = super heavyweight

Amplifier + Hardcode mode = Heavyweight

No inspi / No death / temp pw +4x8 solo = Cruiserweight

"Normal" +4x8 = Lightweight

 

The only one player i m running against and really wanted to beat is me, so in the end, i dont really care 🙂

Edited September 28, 2020 by Tsuko

[Bill Z Bubba]

56 minutes ago, Tsuko said:

"Normal" +4x8 = Lightweight

LOL. Spoken like someone with mez protection.

[Tsuko]

27 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

LOL. Spoken like someone with mez protection.

A lightweight champion is still a champion 😄

Edited September 28, 2020 by Tsuko

[Sovera]

I went to level a Bio/Claws. Hmm... Squishy. Only level 32 though. Longbow and CoT tore it to pieces. But those because they debuffed defense (and since I'm leveling everything but my attacks is unslotted anyway). Council and the.. whatchamacallit.. Wardens something, the low level magic faction redside, they were nothing dangerous even with said unslotted shields.

 

The damage does have that extra crunch, I can feel the -res and +damage working together.... but the QoL that is having a second low level AoE was missed waiting for Spin to come off CD each time. Nice and crunchy though.

 

Theft of Essence works very well in DNA Siphon and I was surprised at seeing DNA Siphon heal so well on a tank. I'm used to it being a midling heal on a Scrapper if memory serves.

 

I don't know if I will stick to it though since I've done Bio to death. I was thinking maybe use SR and abuse it to proc everything to the max though the thought of the endurance woes holds me back.

[nihilii]

Banging my head against +4/x8 buffed MoITF on several scrappers has given me some serious appreciation for the survivability by Tanker builds on display here. After ~10 attempts on various characters, I haven't even made it out of Mission 1.

 

My last try was on a TW/rad/soul, built with Defensive Sweep enhanced for defense and Shadow Meld, rocking ~80-100% melee defense and Ageless debuff side. Plus the knockdown goodness and damage you'd expect from TW. Regular Cimerorans can still be a threat with 2 or 3 bosses at once. The Dwarf/Nova ambush absolutely destroyed me both times I got there.

I am not using Amplifiers yet. In my foolishness, I thought the above build would be enough. Perhaps I should settle for being Heavyweight over Super Heavyweight... not that I'm even sure amplifiers would be enough.

I had an earlier attempt with my claws/bio/soul stalker. It's a funky build without Assassin's Strike, fighting purely at range. Flying with jetpack, the mitigation is surprisingly good against Cimerorans, at range stalker mitigation can more than keep up. Especially when Shockwave keeps them bouncing up and down. But it is a pain to navigate in the caves, and again I got destroyed by the first Dwarf/Nova ambush.

 

Buffed enemies truly stress 75% res hardcap characters with medium HP. On the inv/db tanker, it only felt like I had to keep my eyes open, like a "regular" hard challenge thing. On scrappers/stalkers, I'm finding even all my usual shenanigans of kiting aggressively (read: run away, a lot) can't keep pace with incoming damage.

Werner's proposed DM/inv build is likely the answer. I'm going through my current stable of characters to see what gives, but I might just bite the bullet and reroll. Especially as it would finally give me an excuse to play Dark Melee again (it's been a long time). And, for that matter, scrapper Invulnerability (it's hard to say no to /bio).

Edited October 1, 2020 by nihilii

[Sovera]

The kheldian ambush is too much of a hurdle and tbh it should be considered optional for such a challenge since we can complete the ITF without triggering it in the first place.

[nihilii]

27 minutes ago, Sovera said:

The kheldian ambush is too much of a hurdle and tbh it should be considered optional for such a challenge since we can complete the ITF without triggering it in the first place.

I have never learned the trick and perhaps I should. Got to come from the opposite side, right? I figure if I can't handle that ambush, I'm going to get stomped in the Shadow Caves anyway, or in Mission 3 during mass Cyclops/Minotaurs/bosses phases.

There is, of course, answers for that too. Aggro cap is easier to abuse in both M2 and M3. But I'm not even sure if "easier" would be *easy*, when even a regular single group of Cims can kill me if they get lucky with their hits and I get unlucky with my active mitigation.

 

Edit: grabbed amplifiers, skipped the M1 ambush, started M2 hitting Cysts and running, things seemed to go well. Then I got cocky. Assuming I still had aggro from ambushes, I turned off my aggro aura and didn't renew Shadow Meld preemptively. Dwarfs obliterated my health bar in 4 seconds. Owww

Edited October 1, 2020 by nihilii

[Sovera]

17 minutes ago, nihilii said:

I have never learned the trick and perhaps I should. Got to come from the opposite side, right? I figure if I can't handle that ambush, I'm going to get stomped in the Shadow Caves anyway, or in Mission 3 during mass Cyclops/Minotaurs/bosses phases.

There is, of course, answers for that too. Aggro cap is easier to abuse in both M2 and M3. But I'm not even sure if "easier" would be *easy*, when even a regular single group of Cims can kill me if they get lucky with their hits and I get unlucky with my active mitigation.

 

You're right. It won't be a magic solution. But we can't compare the ambush (30 or so bosses) with a normal cyst pack (10 or so bosses). The ambush is a huge thing that surpasses 99.99% of common content (where else do we get 30 actual bosses thrown at us in a single wave?).

 

It's superb bragging material. But in the end it's a MotITF, not a master-of-running-in-and-killing-every-enemy-ITF.

 

We already do these attempts either not fighting all the enemies and just running from oracle to oracle, or leaving every cyst with a sliver of HP and then destroy them all at the same time. Skipping the ambush is, IMO, just fine. Perhaps just mentioning whether or not it was done.

 

 

As for how not trigger it it is not something I do since loads XP, but when unfortunately roped into surprise-it-is-a-speed-run! the way done is the moment we finish rescuing the oracles and leave the cave we immediately fly up. I believe the trigger lays in the group just before of the pack with the minotaur that is actually guarding the NPC so coming from behind avoids it.

 

And I mean, heck, once you try it and if you manage to get past the cysts and the double AVs and the auto hit fluffies, nothing stops you from coming back and studying the ambush and how to beat it just for completion sakes. I know I barely managed it on my Fire Armor on regular +4x8 even with Barrier and it was only with the invulnerable Banished Pantheon pet sharing agro that I got it. But this was before I upgraded the build with the procs to up the killing speed.

Edited October 1, 2020 by Sovera

[nihilii]

6 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I believe the trigger lays in the group just before of the pack with the minotaur that is actually guarding the NPC so coming from behind avoids it.

I literally just killed all groups except this one and got no ambush, so your theory seems to check out!

[Werner]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

Werner's proposed DM/inv build is likely the answer. I'm going through my current stable of characters to see what gives, but I might just bite the bullet and reroll. Especially as it would finally give me an excuse to play Dark Melee again (it's been a long time). And, for that matter, scrapper Invulnerability (it's hard to say no to /bio).

I started fiddling with a build in Mids, and getting it to where I want it to be looks pretty rough, even if I use amplifiers and I sacrifice everything that doesn’t help with the challenge. We’ll see I guess.

[nihilii]

11 minutes ago, Werner said:

I started fiddling with a build in Mids, and getting it to where I want it to be looks pretty rough, even if I use amplifiers and I sacrifice everything that doesn’t help with the challenge. We’ll see I guess.

I'm thinking Cardiac, Barrier, Hybrid. This way the build only needs to aim for the ~40% or so E/N res you get without trying. Cardiac likely bumps it 1 or 2 %, amplifiers another 8% (?). Barrier and Hybrid top it off as needed. Even if not strictly perma, perma shouldn't be too necessary as we can manipulate the situations where we need that E/N res. Autohit nictus + ranged Rommie damage should be the longest sustained E/N we face, and with Siphon Life and 2k4 hp it should be passable... I think?

 

And when it comes to DPS, I'm guessing some form of MG -> Moonbeam -> Siphon Life -> Smite attack chain ought to bring us to the 300 or so we need to do this in a reasonable amount of time. Or does it? Perhaps I am assuming a lot based on gut feeling.