Superhero genre TTRPGs

[TraumaTrain]

What is your go to tabletop RPG for supers? And why have you chosen that one?

 

I want to run one soon and I have three systems to choose from. I like all three and I'm not sure which one to pick. These are what I have...

 

Spectaculars. Very quick, not much depth. Characters can be made in about 5 minutes. The mechanics really lend toward a solid comic book feel. You could, if you want, easily create a new character every session.

 

Sentinel Comics. A lot of design concepts that a very similar to Spectaculars. Characters have more depth and take maybe a half hour to create. You're more invested in your character.

 

Champions (aka HERO System). Old school, crunchy, numbers heavy system. Takes 31 hours to create a character (some exaggeration there). Characters are super exact with little flexibility. Not a quick system to command, but it sure feels great throwing 14, 16, 20 d6 or more when you attack!

[FrauleinMental]

A decent narrative game is Worlds in Peril, which uses Powered by the Apocalypse.  Because it's so rules-light, it depends a lot on GM and player narrative (and trust), and it's harder to replicate the issue-long super fights you may be used to seeing in comic books.  Masks is similar (also PbtA), but is meant to replicate Teen Titans.

 

Mutants & Masterminds was popular among my friends back in the 90s and early 2000s, but I personally didn't care for the d20 adaptation.  It just didn't feel right to me.  My understanding was that Silver Age Sentinels handled the d20 adaptation better.

 

For being an 80s RPG with random chargen, TSR's old Marvel Super Heroes system (FASERIP) was ahead of its time in terms of balancing mechanics vs. narrative, handling comic book action, and handling multiple power levels in the same game.

[Derek Icelord]

Savage Worlds has a an official setting with Super Hero/Villain powers, Necessary Evil. And the Super Power Companion adds super hero specific rules to make your own campaign and characters. Fun fact, one of the lead writers for City of Villains content, Shane Hensley, founded the company and wrote most of the fluff.

Edited September 16, 2020 by Derek Icelord

[TraumaTrain]

As a dev, Shane was Captain Mako.

[Haijinx]

Heroes Unlimited waa an awesome game.

 

The First Edition was probably better than the second, really.  

 

========

 

We played Marvel a lot.  It had the same issue as Traveller.  No advancement system to speak of.

 

Villains and Vigilantes was another go to.  It had the best published adventures.  

Edited September 20, 2020 by Haijinx
clarity

[FrauleinMental]

5 hours ago, Haijinx said:

We played Marvel a lot.  It had the same issue as Traveller.  No advancement system to speak of.

Marvel did have an advancement system, just a very slow one.  It was slow because you'd like to spend Karma for advancement, but you always needed to spend Karma in large quantities to swing percentile dice rolls.

[lemming]

I played Champions from first edition and while I'm out of practice, I could probably still get a character written up in 20 minutes.

 

While I haven't had a chance to run it yet, Prowlers & Prowlers Ultimate Edition reminds me of the old days of Champions in presentation and such. Probably because it's got a few old school Hero people involved.  Unfortunately real life has interfered with the release, but they seem to be close and they do have a waiting room edition.

I am friends with the staff, but no other connection other than wanting them to succeed and I do like their game.

 

http://www.evilbeaglegames.com/

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1977703373/prowlers-and-paragons-ultimate-edition

 

[Haijinx]

3 hours ago, FrauleinMental said:

Marvel did have an advancement system, just a very slow one.  It was slow because you'd like to spend Karma for advancement, but you always needed to spend Karma in large quantities to swing percentile dice rolls.

Yeah and you needed some goofy amount to advance besides that.

[Argent Aegis]

On 9/19/2020 at 7:24 AM, Haijinx said:

 

Villains and Vigilantes was another go to.  It had the best published adventures.  

V&V - This was my go to back in the 80's,  Numerous and amazing published adventures.   Think that there was a version 2 released in the 2000's or later.  Kind of number crunchy...characters could be wildly powerful at the start or very basic depending on rolls. 

 

TSR Marvel was popular.  Good game overall especially if you could get your hands on the "Ultimate Powers" supplement.

 

Read some Champions and Mutants & Masterminds, both were good, but never got a chance to play them much.

 

For more 'recent' games...

 

If you are a fan of Peter Clines' "Ex-Heroes" series (check it out if you haven't heard of it) try "Rotted Capes".  It is a very odd mash up of Superhero and Zombie SHTF genre.  Little published material, but I enjoyed the concept and game.

 

For something that is closest to COH, in my opinion, try "Brave New World" RPG.  Very similar style with characters using classes along the lines of Scrappers, Tanks, Summoners. etc.  Lots of good meta story.  Good for the read at the very least.  Some goo supplements as well.

 

Then there is the actual COH RPG game that I have seen reference to floating around the internet...but from what I saw, it wasn't fully fleshed out.

 

Grittier and more lethal with potential of serious power creep - "Aberrant" by White Wolf (same guys that published "Vampire").  Good background, lots of storytelling, can be seriously weird at times.  Decent amount of supplemental published material.  Overall enjoyable, but not for the kiddies in my opinion.

 

20 hours ago, lemming said:

While I haven't had a chance to run it yet, Prowlers & Prowlers Ultimate Edition reminds me of the old days of Champions in presentation and such

Looks interesting.  I'll have to keep a watch on the progress.

[Heraclea]

I have fond memories of the AC Comics game Superbabes.

[Haijinx]

We used to love Champions.  But really it was too complicated for 13 year olds. 

 

We never played it correctly.   Villains and Vigilantes and Heroes Unlimited were much easier to play.  

 

Marvel was easier to play too but we really got frustrated with the advancement.   It seemed more aimed at you playing known Marvel personalities.  

 

I had PSI World.  But never really played it. 

 

Daredevils was kind of fun.  Our campaign was a sort of Shadow/Green Hornet/esque deal.  

[FrauleinMental]

26 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

Marvel was easier to play too but we really got frustrated with the advancement.   It seemed more aimed at you playing known Marvel personalities.  

I think the licensing agreement had a fair amount to do with that.  The Marvel Heroic Roleplaying system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Heroic_Roleplaying) didn't even have a chargen system built in, so you either played the licensed Marvel characters or you used a third-party mod to do chargen.  Seemed odd for a game that won as many awards as it did.

 

I tried running a GURPS Supers game back in college, but quickly discovered that GURPS breaks down as characters depart from human normal.  GURPS worked well enough for a long-running game I ran during grad school that included wizards, telepaths, and near-ish future technology (investigators running around with laser rifles and throwing spells).

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, FrauleinMental said:

I think the licensing agreement had a fair amount to do with that.  The Marvel Heroic Roleplaying system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Heroic_Roleplaying) didn't even have a chargen system built in, so you either played the licensed Marvel characters or you used a third-party mod to do chargen.  Seemed odd for a game that won as many awards as it did.

 

I tried running a GURPS Supers game back in college, but quickly discovered that GURPS breaks down as characters depart from human normal.  GURPS worked well enough for a long-running game I ran during grad school that included wizards, telepaths, and near-ish future technology (investigators running around with laser rifles and throwing spells).

I wondered about Gurps Supers since those point values would allow you to create badass normal of game RNG breaking proportions if you just pumped them into a none super Gurps character. 

 

You could abuse the unarmed/dodge/parry and guns systems to an insane degree with even a 300 point character.   

 

[lemming]

6 hours ago, Argent Aegis said:

Then there is the actual COH RPG game that I have seen reference to floating around the internet...but from what I saw, it wasn't fully fleshed out.

 

short form; never got released because cryptic sold coh to ncsoft

 

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/10/Eden-Studios/subcategory/57_340/City-Of-Heroes-RPG

 

https://www.superherorpgs.com/city-heroes/

Edited September 20, 2020 by lemming

[Judasace]

I've played and GM'd an absolute TON of Masks: The New Generation, mainly online of Roll 20. Not only is the game fun and well designed, but as far as universal RPG systems go, PBTA is my favorite, favoring the character and emotion of Roleplaying rather than number crunching. Probably my favorite line from one of my players trying to explain the game to a newcomer..."You aren't fighting with your fists, you're fighting with your feelings". This works especially well for Masks, which is centered on  teen supers like Teen Titans, Young Justice, LSH, New Warriors, etc.

 

 

 

[RufusPentecost]

I am still a nut for the Hero System (Champions).  I have a pretty extensive set of even the most recent edition (sixth) books.  Some friends and I still play it on occasion, but it comes out to only about 2 or 3 times a year.  Being an adult will do that to your roleplaying.

 

[DougGraves]

How did I miss this thread?  I've been playing Champions since first edition in the 80's.  I stopped updating at 5th edition.  It is the best system for creating and playing superheroes if you want the detail - and I want the detail.

[DoctorDitko]

I used to love Champs so very much!

 

It was the absolute greatest way to build exactly the hero you wanted. Which I did. Kind of a lot.

 

Running the damn thing, though, was way too CPU intensive. Roll a bucketful of dice, screech the game to a halt while you count all the sixes, subtract all the ones... Then the GM rolls his bucketful...

 

A single fight could take all evening. Which is fine for "teh Ultimate Battle," but not great if it's the equivalent of a Bank mish.

 

I've bought Prowlers & Paragons Ultimate, read some of it, but haven't had a chance to play. It's not too expensive on Drive-Thru RPG. And supposedly includes similar flexibility with less friction in gameplay.

 

Anyway, cheers for bringing back some memories!

 

[UltraAlt]

On 9/14/2020 at 8:32 PM, TraumaTrain said:

Champions (aka HERO System). Old school, crunchy, numbers heavy system. Takes 31 hours to create a character (some exaggeration there). Characters are super exact with little flexibility. Not a quick system to command, but it sure feels great throwing 14, 16, 20 d6 or more when you attack!

 

You don't have to run a 300 or 500 point game.

Try running original Champions (first three books or the first combined hardback) with only 100 or 150 point characters. Fewer dice. Fewer hp. Makes things go a lot quicker.

 

 

I loved playing Champions.

But the first game that I ran with Super-heroes was Traveller ... because Champions didn't exist at that point.

 

I looked at the Marvel and DC superhero games at that time and the systems really sucked as far as I was concerned.

I didn't like the rules for Villains and Vigilantes either.

 

Champions allowed you to make what you want no matter how barebones or complicated  you wanted to make it.

 

The Champions rules they made up for the MMORPG and then were used to replace REAL Champions rules - those suck. SUCK!

If you are going to play Champions, then play it like it was meant to be played - and it wasn't meant to be played like the MMORPG!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Original Champions is very number crunchy, but it is so balanced. Incredibly balanced.

Used to love just sitting around making characters - whole teams of characters. Themed hero teams, themed villain teams. 

 

But I like making characters! Super-heroes or otherwise. 

[DoctorDitko]

46 minutes ago, UltraAlt said:

Original Champions is very number crunchy, but it is so balanced. Incredibly balanced.

Not only balanced, but organic and consistent as well!

 

Organic in the sense that you could describe real-world creatures in Champs terms. Fiddler Crab? He bought down one claw and spent the points on his other one. Consistent in that 5 Hero points bought you a die's worth of effect in just about any power.

 

You could almost write code in it! For a low-level espionage-focused campaign, I defined a power that was technically a worm in the computer sense. Telepathy linked with a Transformation attack (cumulative) that turns non-telepaths into telepaths. All bought with Invisible power effects and paid for with a Hunted by a group that hunts Telepaths.

 

The result was a Keith Laumer-style telepathy. You could read a person's thoughts with it, but every time you did there was a growing chance of popping the little door open in their mind that made them telepathic, too!

 

Do THAT in any other superhero game!

[Haijinx]

It is a lot more balanced than say .. City of Heroes.

[lemming]

It should be noted that Champions Online doesn't share any rules, just the world.   CO was originally going to be a Marvel MMO.

 

And while some of our Champions combats could take a long time, we did have a lot of ways of speeding up combat even with ten players and numerous NPCs.  Then again, we were a bunch of science nerds.

 

In other news, you can get hard copies now of P&PUE.   KS backers are getting their copies finally. I think mine is about to arrive at my mail drop. 😄

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/346742/Prowlers--Paragons-Ultimate-Edition

 

I was dubious at first about a narrative system, but it's got just enough crunch and you can have a thunderous herd of dice rolling across your table.

[Coyotedancer]

Back in the day, good old "Big  Blue Book" Champions or the older Marvel Heroes box were my game crew's go-to for Supers... More recently, I've tinkered around with Tiny Supers, which is sort of at the exact opposite end of the crunch-scale from Champions, Mutants & Masterminds and GURPS Supers. I have Rotted Capes (YEah. I'm fond of the "Ex" series-), but have never gotten around to doing anything with it. 

 

My favorite is Silver Age Sentinels. It uses a spin on the BESM system, which is fairly easy to learn and run or play, while still giving you some of the powers customization that made Champions so much fun from a character-building perspective. Also, the combats don't take twelve hours to resolve. 😅  

[Omega Force]

On 9/20/2020 at 2:26 PM, FrauleinMental said:

The Marvel Heroic Roleplaying system (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Heroic_Roleplaying) didn't even have a chargen system built in, so you either played the licensed Marvel characters or you used a third-party mod to do chargen.

Or you could use the character modeling guidance that the book tells you to use.  FASERIP had modelling, but that was largely reserved for published comic characters.  MHR was the first system one I know of that encouraged players to start the game with the character they want to play, instead of hoping for lucky rolls and quick levelling.

 

I started with Marvel/FASERIP, grabbed SAGA and MHR, tried Heroes Limited from Palladium and Mutants and Masterminds 2e.  Read DC Heroes and Champions, didn't work for me.  I barely give the edge to MHR because I don't need to futz with NPC intelligence or subtle power levels.  Inshallah the new Marvel game coming out in 2022 will be better.

[FrauleinMental]

21 minutes ago, Omega Force said:

Or you could use the character modeling guidance that the book tells you to use.  FASERIP had modelling, but that was largely reserved for published comic characters.  MHR was the first system one I know of that encouraged players to start the game with the character they want to play, instead of hoping for lucky rolls and quick levelling.

 

I started with Marvel/FASERIP, grabbed SAGA and MHR, tried Heroes Limited from Palladium and Mutants and Masterminds 2e.  Read DC Heroes and Champions, didn't work for me.  I barely give the edge to MHR because I don't need to futz with NPC intelligence or subtle power levels.  Inshallah the new Marvel game coming out in 2022 will be better.

MHR's "guidance" is essentially saying how they wrote up Captain America, and basically saying:  do something like this.  And they say up-front that the it's meant for established comic book characters.  That's insufficient guidance to generate a brand-new character which, frankly, is why I play RPGs.  I do understand a lot of people like to RP the established characters, which is why CoH traditionally needed to 'generic' characters, and that's really the audience MHR was written for.

 

FASERIP did give some rules for creating new characters, especially in the Ultimate Powers Book.  Yes, it was random, but it didn't have the benefit of 30+ years of advances in game design.