What's the story with Contagious Confusion?

[Vanden]

I put the Contagious Confusion proc into Blinding Powder on my Ninjitsu Stalker, and according to Math it should have a 90% chance of triggering no matter how much recharge I put into the power. But it doesn't seem to do a whole lot. It's supposed to proc an AoE confuse around the targets it affects, so Blinding Powder should basically become Seeds of Confusion. But it doesn't seem to work nearly as well as it ought to. I used a Power Analyzer on an enemy in a mob and it took 3 casts of Blinding Powder before I even saw Contagious Confusion applying a confuse in their status tab, but I saw plenty of messages in the combat log that enemies had become contagious. What's more, even though I was 25+ levels higher than the Talos Island Freakshow I was using to test, the status lasted about 3 seconds or so. So I guess I don't have any idea how this proc is supposed to work, unless the intention is "not very well at all."

[Riverdusk]

Weird, I see it work all the time slotting it in deceive on my illusion controller and it seems to last a decent amount of time.  Haven't specifically kept track of it, but I'd say maybe around half the time I see the purple confuse bubbles spread to 2 or 3 other enemies and it seems to last probably 8 seconds or so base (about half that when I go up against +3 or +4's of course).   Even if my anecdotal memory is being generous it still sounds a lot better than your experience.  Maybe the aoe penalty is hitting it harder than it should. 

 

Also doesn't blinding powder only have a chance to confuse?  In my experience it doesn't work unless the target actually becomes confused.  So for instance if I use it on a boss I've never seen it trigger or spread that I remember until the 2nd cast (when I stack it so that the boss actually gets confused).  Flat out misses of course also fail to proc anything.  Not sure what mag blinding powder is either, if only mag 2 then now you'd be down to only a chance against some of the minions for it to actually proc.

 

Personally I love the proc in deceive.  It is no seeds of confusion, but definitely makes using the power useful enough again that I more regularly do so (kind of like how I used it in the lower levels of my character).  Without the proc, in the higher levels I tended to only bother using the power in edge cases.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Riverdusk

[Vanden]

1 hour ago, Riverdusk said:

Also doesn't blinding powder only have a chance to confuse?  In my experience it doesn't work unless the target actually becomes confused.  So for instance if I use it on a boss I've never seen it trigger or spread that I remember until the 2nd cast (when I stack it so that the boss actually gets confused).  Flat out misses of course also fail to proc anything.  Not sure what mag blinding powder is either, if only mag 2 then now you'd be down to only a chance against some of the minions for it to actually proc.

The proc shouldn't care about if the actual confuse in Blinding Powder goes off, only a successful ToHit roll on the power. Even if it does, the confuse in BP goes off 50% of the time, with a 90% proc rate on CC, I should be seeing entire spawns getting confused virtually every time I use the power on large enough groups.

[carroto]

I haven't gotten my Ninjitsu Stalker to 50 yet so I haven't tried it for myself, but I do recall people having good things to say about this combo in the past.  I've been looking forward to trying it out for myself.  Now I'm getting concerned.

[Vanden]

32 minutes ago, carroto said:

I haven't gotten my Ninjitsu Stalker to 50 yet so I haven't tried it for myself, but I do recall people having good things to say about this combo in the past.  I've been looking forward to trying it out for myself.  Now I'm getting concerned.

I'd heard the same things, that's why I dropped beaucoup bucks on a purple and picked up a power that's not all that great otherwise.

Edited September 27, 2020 by Vanden

[siolfir]

Was it stealth-nerfed to not fire more than once in an AoE (the Call of the Sandman treatment)?

 

I used to use BP as Seeds as well, and actually have it in Seeds on my Plant/Kin because it would consistently confuse bosses, but I haven't made a /Nin on HC at all, and haven't played the Plant/Kin in a while.

[JnEricsonx]

My Nin/Nin stalker does the same thing.  Granted I don't track/focus how well it works, I just use it then make like Ogami Itto slicing fools up.

[tidge]

I only ever slot the %Contagious Confusion in single-target powers. I tried it in several different AoE (including a toggle) and it really isn't helping much. IIRC the duration of Confuse from the proc is less than an enhanced confuse. If throwing an AoE, you will generally be targeting nearby mobs anyway. This proc helps keep single-target confuse powers relevant once a character starts facing larger groups of enemies; I wish there was an equivalent %proc for the Fear sets.

 

For AoE confuse, I would recommend adding one (or more) %damage procs. If you damage mobs with the AoE confuse, you are 'on the record' for earning rewards (drops) if they happen to get defeated by their confused allies. Some factions are VERY strong against themselves. The %damage procs also allow for some massive damage in Mayhem missions, if that matters.

[Vanden]

On 9/27/2020 at 8:41 PM, siolfir said:

Was it stealth-nerfed to not fire more than once in an AoE (the Call of the Sandman treatment)?

Doesn't seem like it. I see multiple reports of "X is now contagious!" in the combat log from a single use of BP.

[golstat2003]

On 9/27/2020 at 5:18 AM, Vanden said:

I put the Contagious Confusion proc into Blinding Powder on my Ninjitsu Stalker, and according to Math it should have a 90% chance of triggering no matter how much recharge I put into the power. But it doesn't seem to do a whole lot. It's supposed to proc an AoE confuse around the targets it affects, so Blinding Powder should basically become Seeds of Confusion. But it doesn't seem to work nearly as well as it ought to. I used a Power Analyzer on an enemy in a mob and it took 3 casts of Blinding Powder before I even saw Contagious Confusion applying a confuse in their status tab, but I saw plenty of messages in the combat log that enemies had become contagious. What's more, even though I was 25+ levels higher than the Talos Island Freakshow I was using to test, the status lasted about 3 seconds or so. So I guess I don't have any idea how this proc is supposed to work, unless the intention is "not very well at all."

My experience with it in AOE powers actually is "not very well at all". Nowhere near Seeds of Confusion (I have more than one plant dom and can compare).

 

Which is a shame.

[carroto]

On 9/27/2020 at 4:18 AM, Vanden said:

I don't have any idea how this proc is supposed to work, unless the intention is "not very well at all."

I don't know about the intention either, but I finally got around to testing this.  Slotted the full set into Blinding Powder then went to the RWZ to test.  What a disappointment.  The proc doesn't last long at all.  I did occasionally see it affect a lieutenant, which was nice.  Didn't get any bosses.  Also got some minions that the main confuse missed.  But it seemed like it just lasted long enough for them to get off a couple of attacks.

 

I guess that would be fine, but the cone is rather small.  So there's a chance (50%) that some of the minions (because many won't fit in the cone) in a group will be confused.  Add in a couple more due to the proc I guess, and maybe I've redirected a tiny bit of the alpha.  Hardly seemed worth it.  If that power belonged to a squishy that would be one thing, but it's in an armor set.  Blunting the attacks of a handful of minions isn't a great result for a power pick and that many slots.  If I didn't slot the full set maybe I could mix and match to get some range in there and enlarge the cone, and turn it from a complete waste of a power to only mostly one.

 

The only reason I'd see taking  and slotting the power is for the set bonuses, but I'd probably keep it off my tray.  Wasn't worth it to me.  I took it out of my build.  A part of me wants to be angry at the people in the past who sold that combo as some great and powerful toy.

 

As for the proc in other powers, I guess if it works for others that's great.  I haven't tried it elsewhere but it's hard to imagine it being much better.  The one exception I can see is maybe toggle powers like Arctic Air or World of Confusion.  It had such a short duration even when I tested it against even-con and below level foes.  It must be even shorter against above-level foes.

Edited November 15, 2020 by carroto

[Chaos String]

My StJ/Nin stalker runs the purple set in Blinding Powder too.  It's nearly useless as a power but the set bonuses are good.

 

Sometimes I throw BP from hide when I'm concerned about attacking a particular group (read: very rarely), but it only affects a small fraction of the minions it hits, and if the contagious proc does anything at all, I haven't noticed.

 

Caltrops provides a lot more safety than Blinding Powder imo.

[tidge]

8 hours ago, carroto said:

I don't know about the intention either, but I finally got around to testing this.  Slotted the full set into Blinding Powder then went to the RWZ to test.  What a disappointment.  The proc doesn't last long at all.  I did occasionally see it affect a lieutenant, which was nice.  Didn't get any bosses.  Also got some minions that the main confuse missed.  But it seemed like it just lasted long enough for them to get off a couple of attacks.

[...]

As for the proc in other powers, I guess if it works for others that's great.  I haven't tried it elsewhere but it's hard to imagine it being much better.  The one exception I can see is maybe toggle powers like Arctic Air or World of Confusion.  It had such a short duration even when I tested it against even-con and below level foes.  It must be even shorter against above-level foes.

Don't bother with it in World of Confusion, unless you are seeking multi-piece set bonuses. The WoC confuse is also pretty short, the short duration from the proc won't improve it. I know that other folks will emphasize the possibility of extra Magnitude, but the duration is sooo short that all you get is a very small window of time when you are not attacked. Mobs that get that confusion (from the proc, or from WoC) barely have any time to cast an attack of their own.

 

As I wrote above, the best use I have found for it is in single-target confuse powers. At higher levels (when you are likely facing large groups of enemies) or targets that you might otherwise miss with an attack, the small amount of Contagious Confusion is a nice bonus for when you decide to cast that single-target attack.

[Hardship]

I have the contagious confusion proc in my Illusion controllers Deceive power. It procs fairly often and usually hits 1 or 2 extra targets when it does. The problem is that the time they are confused is quite short and it seems to generate aggro (where Deceive doesn't) that I sometimes find myself hoping it doesn't proc. I'll probably respec out of it when I get around to it. It would be great if the confusion lasted longer, or didn't generate aggro when it wears off, but as is, it is kind of meh...

 

 

[Razor Cure]

I cant speak to BP with teh Proc, but I tried the power ageeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeees ago (before IOs!) and it was utter, utter shit. Like..really shit. Even using Build UP and from Hide, it would almost never confuse a single enemy, even in a huge mob.

What does the power info say? It the confuse a sure thing, or a % chance?

[carroto]

6 hours ago, Razor Cure said:

What does the power info say? It the confuse a sure thing, or a % chance?

Supposedly 50% chance for mag 2.

[Razor Cure]

1 hour ago, carroto said:

Supposedly

about right from what I remember. Hitting 1 target in a big mob..over multiple tries..totally is 50%. lol

Unless you are using the power for the purple set, its totally skippable.

[KaizenSoze]

I guess I am the only one that finds putting the full set into my Fortunata's Aura of Confusion useful.

 

Stealth into a spawn, fire AOC, most of the time everything will be confused. Including the bosses.

 

The high recharge on AOC gives a very good proc rate on the confusion proc.

 

The best part is that AOC is non-notifying. I can stand there for a few seconds till they alpha each other then nuke.

[siolfir]

5 hours ago, KaizenSoze said:

I guess I am the only one that finds putting the full set into my Fortunata's Aura of Confusion useful.

 

Stealth into a spawn, fire AOC, most of the time everything will be confused. Including the bosses.

 

The high recharge on AOC gives a very good proc rate on the confusion proc.

 

The best part is that AOC is non-notifying. I can stand there for a few seconds till they alpha each other then nuke.

I found it very useful in my Fortunata's Aura of Confusion also - the 5% ranged defense puts me over the softcap without Mind Link. I don't actually use Aura of Confusion very often, but when I do it's as a panic button so it's nice that it hits bosses.

[tidge]

Heh, we've been over this ground many times in the VEAT sub-forum.

 

My perspective is one of taking both Confuse powers available to Fortunata. My first response, from that thread:

Spoiler

Is there a standard slotting for Aura of Confusion? I advise AGAINST putting the Coercive Persuasion here. That set is custom-made for single-target confuses, it is pointless to add it to an AoE. My own slotting is 2x Malaise' Illusion: Acc/Recharge and %Psi. My prefered slotting would be 2 slots, with %Psi (Malaise), %Energy (Cacophany) and Recharge. You want to do SOME damage to the enemies hit by the Aura so that you get credit for any drops when they defeat each other.

 

Obviously if you are only taking one Confuse and want the Superior set bonuses, Coercive Persuasion is fine (but not optimal for %drops, IMO).

[Vanden]

From playing with the CC proc more, I think I've identified how the proc functions, if not the exact numbers. When the proc goes off and the enemy becomes "contagious," what happens is that enemy will periodically pulse an AoE confuse around themselves. This lasts a short while and it can pulse multiple times from the same enemy, over several seconds. The chances of a pulse happening, and how long the enemy remains contagious, however, I don't know.

[VV]

I guess the question is, why would you even take Blinding Powder? I have a /Nin Scrapper and that was the one power I skipped. I read it, sounded like garbage. I tried it, it is garbage. I respecced out of it. If I was going to take it, I would slot it for -ToHit, not confusion.

[carroto]

57 minutes ago, VV said:

why would you even take Blinding Powder?

I remember back in the day people really hyping up the Blinding Powder/Contagious Confusion combo.  Supposedly it was amazing, a poor-man's Seeds of Confusion.  I'm not sure how far back that was, probably pre-shutdown.  I think what prompted the creation of this thread was disappointment over the reality relative to the hype.

 

I'm not going to take the time to track down all the old patch notes, but I've been wondering if the proc maybe got nerfed somewhere along the way.  Maybe it did actually used to be good.  Maybe I'm remembering glory days of old that will never come again.  If so I'm disappointed that I took so long to finally level a /Nin toon to 50 to try it out and missed the chance to experience it in it's proper glory.

 

On the up-side, people also used to talk up Caltrops as well, and although I've had a number of toons with it, I never really used it much.  Now that I'm working it in more I'm seeing where the love comes from.  People also talked up procced up Caltrops.  It has a low proc rate, as all pseudo-pet AoEs do, but with enough procs in it, I get one now and then.  Since I'm using the power anyway, it's nice to get random hits of damage every so often.  It's a bit situational, but it's definitely growing on me.  So it's nice to have discovered something to enjoy in /Nin after finding BP to be such a dud.

[VV]

Interesting, I'm not really a fan of Caltrops, either, unless I also have an aoe Immob in the build. Just the running is so bad. That being said, I love everything else about Nin.

Edited November 17, 2020 by VV

[Vanden]

The running is the whole point. Running enemies aren't attacking you or your allies. The slow keeps them from going far.