Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Super Atom]

@ThunderCAP

 

You not liking mechanics is a flavor thing. Roleplay wise? It's exactly the same.

 

Those sets being bad was not the statement you made. You said, and i qoute "There are no more none mechanic sets left in the game" which is just absolutely false. If you had made that claim, I might have agreed with you that older sets like Stone Melee, Martial arts (Havent tested cone eagles claw), Claws, and Dark Melee could use some love however and (spoilers) EM was bottom tier before the changes. So this would have invalidated your entire argument as clearly you don't see bad sets as being a viable option.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Super Atom

[Infinitum]

3 minutes ago, Troo said:

If a player wants to use either of the other two combo options after Total Focus (TF), there is no fast Energy Transfer (ET).

If exempted down below where both TF and ET are available in a build, there is no fast Energy Transfer.

If a player does not use Total Focus first, there is no fast Energy Transfer.

If a player wanted to wait until later levels to take Total Focus in their build, there is no fast Energy Transfer.

 

There are no facts that change these and we could likely continue trying to pick fly shit out of the pepper.

With this beta, yeah, IT IS PART TIME but it can be available pretty often. No real point in arguing it over and over.

 

Other topics:

I believe the ET recharge and endurance change was made to address the issue with corpse blasting on the long animation. What about the TF that's still almost as long as slow ET?

The recharge and endurance are nice but a poor substitute for just cancelling the power on target defeat. I get that adding a cancel could potentially open the team up to needing to proliferate it. 

 

 

 

You used a lot of Ifs there.

 

You are compartmentalizing all the changes into seperate categories, if you only looked at one change by itself it may be a poor update.

 

You cant do that though all of the changes work together to make the whole set superb and even surpassing pre nerf EM.  And again even if you took focus out, it would still surpass pre nerf EM.

 

No its not the same, statistically its better, and IMO stylistically and strategically its far better.

[Golden Azrael]

I like Energy Melee on all the alts I've tried.

 

Especially now.  ?

 

Tank!!!

 

Combo mechanic is transformative.  It gives people choices rather than taking them away.

 

I like looking at the possibilities of combos now.  Far more choice.  Far more variety.

 

It hits like a mother trucker.  So if you want to have that short hard Truck Punch?  You can play for it.  TF + ET.

 

EZ!!!

 

HC having just twiddled here and there.  They've evolved the set with a total core revamp.  It's become the Tanking HOT ROD TANK!

 

It's sheer joy to play by a HC dev' team that clearly love the game.

 

This is now my favourite tank melee set.  And I thought SJ was good.

 

Smooth as butter and cuts through mobs like a knife.  A hot one.  Stacking AoE is now fun and not a Whirling chore.  And the choice of long or short ET has that 'soft centre' or hard centre chocco choice feel.  HARD CENTRE BOOOM!

 

The melee set feels far less grindy bore.  MoAR excitement decisions....decisions...do I give the mob the AoE....or the ET?  The Bonesmashser stun?  

 

Nom Nom Nom....

 

Azrael.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Golden Azrael]

23 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

You used a lot of Ifs there.

 

You are compartmentalizing all the changes into seperate categories, if you only looked at one change by itself it may be a poor update.

 

You cant do that though all of the changes work together to make the whole set superb and even surpassing pre nerf EM.  And again even if you took focus out, it would still surpass pre nerf EM.

 

No its not the same, statistically its better, and IMO stylistically and strategically its far better.

I agree.  HC knocked this baby right out the park.  

 

Smashed it.

 

It buries pre-nerf EM.  Stats and to play.  

 

It's sheer joy.

 

*tear in eye.

 

I thought I loved the auto snipe.  

But this is a whole set that plays like the EM I always had in my imagination.  What it could have been?  it now is.

 

What a blinder by HC.  What a hit.  They have pulled a belter here.

 

I liked it that much...I didn't even care about the Knives of Artie slowing down my Bio armour.

 

This is SO good.  It's READY to go LIVE!!!

 

Azrael.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Bill Z Bubba]

9 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

Combo mechanic is transformative.  It gives people choices rather than taking them away.

This is a false statement. My choice of attack chain is taken away. I can do TF/ET or self-gimp. I can do TF/BS or self-gimp. I can do TF/PC or self-gimp.

Self-gimping is not a choice. It's a punishment.

 

Look, the changes are indeed a buff. Full stop.

The changes screw over what was a basic, functional set for a combo system that some of us freaking hate.

 

But we all know this is going live as is (or with minimal number alterations.) We can either roll with it or delete all of our EM users.

 

I'll be choosing the roll with it and in some cases, it's going to be me not taking TF or ET just to avoid the combo system I neither wanted, think was wise, hate, and did what I could on the live forums to dissuade the devs from doing after the changes from closed beta got leaked.

 

In other cases, I'll just use the TF/EP/ET/BS/EP ugly ass attack chain and live with it.

 

My only hope at this point is that devs listen and when deciding on how to "balance" other powerset changes that they avoid this mistake.

[Golden Azrael]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

It was all @Captain Powerhouse, and yes I agree it is excellent. Can't wait to roll an EM Scrapper.

Jimmy and the team.  We salute.  What a corker!!!  I liked it that much.  It put my alt in the Hospital.  (I wasnt' looking at my Bio Armour.)

 

Captain Powerhouse.  The Motherload of Thank YOUS!

 

THIS IS WHY I PLAY HC COH!!!

 

It's an absolutely excellent piece of work.

 

It's the Duracell bunny melee set.  You just wanna keep going and it  keeps giving and giving and giving.

 

GIVE IT TO ME!!!!  COME ON!!! ENERGY MELEE!!! GIVE IT TO ME!!!!!

 

*Cap Powerhouse.  Thou hast done well, my san.

 

Most worthy.

 

*Calms self.

 

Azrael.

[Golden Azrael]

3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

This 

...set is self big love.

 

You could be arrested for playing it in public.  😄

 

Azrael.

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

that they avoid this mistake.

That's opinion.

 

One of many.

[Saikochoro]

52 minutes ago, ThunderCAP said:

Powers completely unplayable at the moment (Super Strength)

Super strength is one of the most played and popular powersets in the game. We must be playing different games. 
 

Also, the goal posts keep moving with this whole combo argument. You made the claim that there are no more combo free sets in the game now that one was added to EM. This was proven false. Then the goal posts shifted to define combos as basically any mechanic. Now it has shifted again to include any set the someone may deem underperforming as not counting. 
 

The fact is there are a lot less sets that use combos (original wording) than sets that do not. It’s fine to not like combos. However, hyperbole doesn’t help win arguments. Shifting goals posts also does not help win arguments. 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Golden Azrael said:

...set is self big love.

 

You could be arrested for playing it in public.  😄

 

Azrael.

No, it's not. It's still inferior to warmace on both ST and AoE. And now it's got a gimped-ass dual-animation for ET that if you don't play a certain way, you get the crappy animation that should have never been added to the set in the first place.

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

That's opinion.

 

One of many.

And fully stated as so in my post. It doesn't need to be reiterated as such.

[Saikochoro]

6 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

My only hope at this point is that devs listen and when deciding on how to "balance" other powerset changes that they avoid this mistake.

It is fine to not like the combo mechanic that was added. Every balance change is bound to have people who love it, people who hate it, and people who just don’t care. I love the changes. You hate them. A lot probably don’t care. All valid opinions. 
 

However, I think this is wrong to call their approach a “mistake”. Just because some people may disagree with the approach does not mean the devs made a mistake in their approach. 

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

No, it's not. It's still inferior to warmace on both ST

That is incorrect.

 

It's the pinnacle of ST.  Warmace is better in AOE but not ST.

[Super Atom]

9 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

This is a false statement. My choice of attack chain is taken away. I can do TF/ET or self-gimp. I can do TF/BS or self-gimp. I can do TF/PC or self-gimp.

Self-gimping is not a choice. It's a punishment.

 

Look, the changes are indeed a buff. Full stop.

The changes screw over what was a basic, functional set for a combo system that some of us freaking hate.

 

But we all know this is going live as is (or with minimal number alterations.) We can either roll with it or delete all of our EM users.

 

I'll be choosing the roll with it and in some cases, it's going to be me not taking TF or ET just to avoid the combo system I neither wanted, think was wise, hate, and did what I could on the live forums to dissuade the devs from doing after the changes from closed beta got leaked.

 

In other cases, I'll just use the TF/EP/ET/BS/EP ugly ass attack chain and live with it.

 

My only hope at this point is that devs listen and when deciding on how to "balance" other powerset changes that they avoid this mistake.

 

Question, on your current EM users do you not have ET or TF?

 

Ignoring EF

 

Total Focus

Cast time reduced from 3.3 seconds to 2.53 seconds

 

ET

• Energy Transfer self damage is now 10% of base max HP for all ATs, and no longer costs any endurance
• Damage is now 100% energy
• (Stalker / Scrapper only) When this power crits it will now not only avoid the self-damage, but actually heals the caster for 10% of base Max HP.
• Recharge lowered from 20s to 10s

This is the only difference other than it being instant if used with EF. Are you gonna sit here and with a straight face tell me EF completely changes those abilities to be unusable compared to EM pre-change?

[ForeverLaxx]

49 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

I don't miss that point, I disagree with it. I'm an "old school EM player" and while i know many, I'm not gonna pretend i speak for them like you're doing.

Based on the initial discussion thread, your opinion was far outweighed by those who share mine, and whether you realize it or not, you are "speaking for everyone else" when you insist on being so dismissive to the people who don't like this direction. You're essentially making the argument that because it performs better then the set is fine, regardless of how it feels or looks. It'd be as if I took Titan Weapon, renamed all the powers to Energy Melee analogs, changed the weapon to glowy pompoms, and declared EM was now "fixed".

 

It's not EM anymore. It's an imitation.

[Golden Azrael]

This is single target monster!

 

What a beast.  What fury!  What damage!!!  What hitting power!!!

 

What a thoughtful approach to his en melee set.  It was NEVER this good on live.  EVER!  Old or 'nerf' (new.)

 

This is a Mother Truckin' set that keeps on BEASTING THe MOBs.

 

I've put myself in HP again.  Just not paying attention to the Bio.  EN IS THAT GOOD.  It's complete TANKER LOCK!!!

 

I just went short...then long ET...and EF allowed me to go short and long.  Rough housed the Artie Boss.

 

This is tankers rock and roll.  Made me forget about my brute damage En/Elec!  Who dat?

 

Azrael.

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

That is incorrect.

 

It's the pinnacle of ST.  Warmace is better in AOE but not ST.

That's not what the pylons are showing me.

[Golden Azrael]

3 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

 

Question, on your current EM users do you not have ET or TF?

 

Ignoring EF

 

Total Focus

Cast time reduced from 3.3 seconds to 2.53 seconds

 

ET

• Energy Transfer self damage is now 10% of base max HP for all ATs, and no longer costs any endurance
• Damage is now 100% energy
• (Stalker / Scrapper only) When this power crits it will now not only avoid the self-damage, but actually heals the caster for 10% of base Max HP.
• Recharge lowered from 20s to 10s

This is the only difference other than it being instant if used with EF. Are you gonna sit here and with a straight face tell me EF completely changes those abilities to be unusable compared to EM pre-change?

The shorter cast times are a revelation.

 

With Spiritual Alpha?

 

This set is turbo charged BUTTER!!!

 

Azrael.

[Infinitum]

Just now, ForeverLaxx said:

Based on the initial discussion thread, your opinion was far outweighed by those who share mine, and whether you realize it or not, you are "speaking for everyone else" when you insist on being so dismissive to the people who don't like this direction. You're essentially making the argument that because it performs better then the set is fine, regardless of how it feels or looks. It'd be as if I took Titan Weapon, renamed all the powers to Energy Melee analogs, changed the weapon to glowy pompoms, and declared EM was now "fixed".

 

It's not EM anymore. It's an imitation.

Its not being dismissive.

 

In fact people ignoring the benefits of these changes are being dismissive based on personal preference - which if you looked at the set objectively you would see it does everything you are clamoring for already.  Its just not getting your way, and thats why you are triggered.

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Based on the initial discussion thread, your opinion was far outweighed by those who share mine, and whether you realize it or not, you are "speaking for everyone else" when you insist on being so dismissive to the people who don't like this direction. You're essentially making the argument that because it performs better then the set is fine, regardless of how it feels or looks. It'd be as if I took Titan Weapon, renamed all the powers to Energy Melee analogs, changed the weapon to glowy pompoms, and declared EM was now "fixed".

 

It's not EM anymore. It's an imitation.

Nope. I've repeatedly told people their criticism of an added mechanic is a valid complaint. My issue is when people (like you again) use imaginary people to fluff their argument.  Your strawmans don't interest me about drastic changes nobody made.

 

As is, EF is an optional mechanic when compared to live HC EM. If you ignore it, it plays -exactly- the same but with added buffs and faster recharges and on occasion you may get an instant ET instead of a normal duration one. Stun was a terrible power, i won't argue it with you.

[Infinitum]

2 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

That's not what the pylons are showing me.

Well post your data then.

[Bill Z Bubba]

5 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

 

Question, on your current EM users do you not have ET or TF?

 

Ignoring EF

 

Total Focus

Cast time reduced from 3.3 seconds to 2.53 seconds

 

ET

• Energy Transfer self damage is now 10% of base max HP for all ATs, and no longer costs any endurance
• Damage is now 100% energy
• (Stalker / Scrapper only) When this power crits it will now not only avoid the self-damage, but actually heals the caster for 10% of base Max HP.
• Recharge lowered from 20s to 10s

This is the only difference other than it being instant if used with EF. Are you gonna sit here and with a straight face tell me EF completely changes those abilities to be unusable compared to EM pre-change?

What are you babbling about? I stated that the the changes are a buff over live. Full stop.

 

I went from 4:30 pylon to 3:30 with zero changes using TF/BS/ET/BS. I'm down to 1:45 average on my em/bio scrapper on beta compared to 1:30 on my mace/bio on live.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Infinitum said:

Well post your data then.

See above.

[Bopper]

54 minutes ago, Troo said:

believe the ET recharge and endurance change was made to address the issue with corpse blasting on the long animation. What about the TF that's still almost as long as slow ET?

That wasn't the reason.

[Bill Z Bubba]

3 minutes ago, Super Atom said:

Stun was a terrible power, i won't argue it with you.

I won't argue this either. Great change.