Focused Feedback: Energy Melee Revamp

[Bill Z Bubba]

19 hours ago, Infinitum said:

At this point the whole world gets that you dont like it.

 

But by your own admission it is a significant improvement.

 

So your style preference isnt then ONLY one that exists.

Again, no ****. But as has been made apparent in this thread I'm not the only one that doesn't like the direction of these changes. So have your majority view. I don't give a ****. I'm gonna keep posting my displeasure regarding changes I don't agree with regardless of how folks like you would rather I just ****.
 

Edited: Self-moderating

Edited October 26, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, ForeverLaxx said:

It doesn't matter if I'd click the button anyway because it's telling me the order in which I must click my buttons if I want the set to perform at a level it should without having everything laid out in a specific order of activation.

 

That's the problem and it's clear you'll never understand. I know that EM is not going to be changed back to a combo-less system because someone on the dev team must think that ET deserves to be awful unless we engage with his inane minigame, and I'll still play the set because I value concept more than numbers, but that DOES NOT mean that I like what the set has become. Much like the original nerfs to EM, people still played it while complaining about it and I'll remain in that camp.

 

Energy Melee is no longer Energy Melee to me. It's now just PomPom Punchies, but only if you punch in the proper order.

There is no order, just one power to make it optimal.

 

That you would use anyway.

[Super Atom]

I think most posts have been on topic of the changes and if people do or do not like them, though getting a little heated might need to dial it back.

 

10 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

A basic set is a set that doesn't use combos. Adding combos makes it no longer a basic set.

 

Because I haven't enjoyed ET since the initial nerf. I do, but I hate it, just as I hate HAVING to use TF before ET to get it back to where it was supposed to be in the first damn place.

 

It will be different because the set will be different. An ST stun I never took now adds AoE to a set lacking AoE. An animation that was longed for is accessible but only if your play a certain way.

 

Fair enough on the first part. Flavor opinion i respect it.

 

That ET is so long ago it might as well be a different game. The game has evolved tremendously since then and reverting ET to always be instant brings a whole host of balancing issues that will now make it not pre-nerf ET again recreating this entire issue but with different words.

 

The cone was a good thing and it will be different but for the better? I'm confused. I get you don't like current EM but it seems like at the end of the day, your largest complaint is combo-based and again, fair enough.

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

1 minute ago, Golden Azrael said:

Who cares about specific attack chains when you can choose a random beauty each time. 

I do. And as others have stated, they do too.

[Golden Azrael]

2 minutes ago, Troo said:

Would you feel better if folks put "It feels" in front of their take? 

 

And since I and others agree that it feels constrained with the combo mechanic. How would you like us to word it?

 

"Totally false" is an absolute. It's pretty easy to disprove an absolute.

 

 

Constrained?

 

This is total uber BOOM liberation!!!!!

 

Choice.  Freedom!!!  DEMOCRACY!!!!

 

Want the old EM?  It's better.

 

Want the new combo system?  EVEN BETTER!

 

Azrael.

[Infinitum]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

Again, no shit. But as has been made apparent in this thread I'm not the only one that doesn't like the direction of these changes. So have your majority view. I don't give a fuck. I'm gonna keep posting my displeasure regarding changes I don't agree with regardless of how folks like you would rather I just STFU.

I don't care what you do, but its highly unfair to view the changes as crap when by your own admission its a buff.

 

You are welcome to keep whinging about it, I won't stand in your way.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Just now, Infinitum said:

I don't care what you do, but its highly unfair to view the changes as crap when by your own admission its a buff.

 

You are welcome to keep whinging about it, I won't stand in your way.

How sweet of you. That you can't separate buff from crap to get said buff says a whole lot about you.

[Golden Azrael]

I'm going to keep posting my pleasure at this new set.

 

This new EM is such a revelation!!!!

 

Love it!

 

BRING IT LIVE!!!!  IT@S READY!!!!!

 

Azrael.

[Infinitum]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

And since I and others agree that it feels constrained with the combo mechanic. How would you like us to word it?

But facts disprove that notion, its not constrained.

 

There have always been optimal rotations even on pre nerf.

 

This actually gives you more flexibility.

[ForeverLaxx]

1 minute ago, Infinitum said:

There is no order, just one power to make it optimal.

 

That you would use anyway.

Yup, you just refuse to understand. I'm not responding to you any further because it's going nowhere. I've aired my displeasure over this change and it's clear you think my displeasure is meaningless because I would "use those attacks anyway so who cares".

 

Who cares that I must use TF before ET or PC to make using those two worthwhile, right? Who cares that some guy obsessed with minigames decided to ruin the flow, fluidity, and choice of EM's combat chains to shoehorn in a half-measure that should be a full-measure? Who cares if we don't like it since it's happening anyway?

 

Most of the time, the forums are a fine place to discuss ideas. Today, in this thread, it's clear that people like me just need to "keep quiet" for some reason.

[Troo]

47 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

But we all know this is going live as is (or with minimal number alterations.) We can either roll with it or delete all of our EM users.

I don't know this is going live with just minor tweaks.

 

My understanding is this an opportunity to get more eyes on it and get feedback on what works and what doesn't.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Troo

[Infinitum]

Just now, ForeverLaxx said:

Yup, you just refuse to understand. I'm not responding to you any further because it's going nowhere. I've aired my displeasure over this change and it's clear you think my displeasure is meaningless because I would "use those attacks anyway so who cares".

 

Who cares that I must use TF before ET or PC to make using those two worthwhile, right? Who cares that some guy obsessed with minigames decided to ruin the flow, fluidity, and choice of EM's combat chains to shoehorn in a half-measure that should be a full-measure? Who cares if we don't like it since it's happening anyway?

 

Most of the time, the forums are a fine place to discuss ideas. Today, in this thread, it's clear that people like me just need to "keep quiet" for some reason.

lol I never said that, discussing ideas went away with calling good changes based on data and fact crap, all because it doesn't meet stylistic preference -- which still exists if you tap one button.

 

Thats All you have to do.  lol

[Vanden]

1 minute ago, ForeverLaxx said:

Who cares that I must use TF before ET or PC to make using those two worthwhile, right?

I, personally, see the EF bonus for Power Crash as a lame duck. I see it more as a restriction on what I can use after I get a Total Focus crit if I want to use both stacks on Energy Transfer, while I wait for ET to recharge.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Troo said:

I don't know this is going live with just minor tweaks.

 

My understanding is this an opportunity to get more eyes on it and get feedback on what works and what doesn't.

 

Yeah you would rather have it tabled so nobody gets it if you don't get your way.  

 

How cool is that.

[ABlueThingy]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

6 minutes ago, Golden Azrael said:

Who cares about specific attack chains when you can choose a random beauty each time.  This is a gdn sweet shop of a Tank Melee set. 

I do. And as others have stated, they do too.

...I'm not sure that's changed from live to test.  You could always choose a sub-optimal attack. You always had a "Correct" rotation that was the best, specific powers used in a specific order.  And you could always deviate from it and do whatever.

 

That is still true on Test.  The biggest thing that changed is the order of powers in the optimal chain and that it lights it up for you.  You can still choose a sub-optimal attack whenever you want. Now the game just has indicators telling you such.

 

Would it be better if more powers gave you the Focus effect so you'd have more freedom to mix up the rotation without bumping into the slow ET?

[Infinitum]

Just now, Vanden said:

I, personally, see the EF bonus for Power Crash as a lame duck. I see it more as a restriction on what I can use after I get a Total Focus crit if I want to use both stacks on Energy Transfer, while I wait for ET to recharge.

PC is useful situationally if in a concentration of baddies.

[GM ColdSpark]

Folks please stop the bad language and attacks on each others opinions. Feedback, yes. Respecting each others feedback, also yes. 

[ForeverLaxx]

Just now, Vanden said:

I, personally, see the EF bonus for Power Crash as a lame duck. I see it more as a restriction on what I can use after I get a Total Focus crit if I want to use both stacks on Energy Transfer, while I wait for ET to recharge.

I do too, but PC is bad without the charge and if it's still bad after spending the charge, why does PC exist at all other than to homogenize the set? I would just prefer the charge mechanic not exist at all, put ET at the reduced cast time without restriction, and see where we go from there. Clearly the set is "balanced" around the TF - ET combination so shouldn't it be balanced without it?

[ABlueThingy]

Personally I think if the set is buffed in a way that brings it back up to par but also makes all the players who have used it for years dislike it... that sounds like a net loss to me.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, ABlueThingy said:

Personally I think if the set is buffed in a way that brings it back up to par but also makes all the players who have used it for years dislike it... that sounds like a net loss to me.

Eh its not all of us, my main on live was EM. I love the change, and any way you slice the actual data is an improvement and more flexible.

[Golden Azrael]

5 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

PC is useful situationally if in a concentration of baddies.

I've been using Power Crash to stack with Whirling and it really thins the mob.

 

The uplift in AoE damage for mobs is tremendous.  Far less grindy and dull than it used to be.

 

It's a net win for me.  

 

Before I know it ?  I'm down to bosses.  Hitting them with slow long EF/ET combos that rock their brains out.

 

I concur.  I played this on live.  Got it to L50 etc.  Very grindy on mobs.  And slow on bosses.

 

This is deffo hitting harder on Single target and AoE!  And it's far more flexible.  Far more.

 

Instead of 'ONE WAY' attack chains you have flexible choices depending on the situation.

 

Azrael.

Edited October 25, 2020 by Golden Azrael

[Bill Z Bubba]

7 minutes ago, Troo said:

I don't know this is going live with just minor tweaks.

 

My understanding is this an opportunity to get more eyes on it and get feedback on what works and what doesn't.

That's not how production cycles work.

[Infinitum]

1 minute ago, Golden Azrael said:

I've been using Power Crash to stack with Whirling and it really thins the mob.

 

The uplift in AoE damage for mobs is tremendous.  Far less grindy and dull than it used to be.

 

It's a net win for me.  

 

Before I know it ?  I'm down to bosses.  Hitting them with slow long EF/ET combos that rock their brains out.

 

Azrael.

Aaand that's how its done, I like the sitiluational capabilities of the changes - especially on stalkers

[PeregrineFalcon]

36 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

That's not what the pylons are showing me.

Then that's an enormous mistake by the devs, IMHO.

 

Energy Melee used to be the King of Single Target Damage, and it should be again. What's the point of even 'fixing' Energy Melee if it's not going to regain that title?

 

So War Mace does better AoE AND better single target damage than Energy Melee? Ridiculous! Can I at least blame THAT on PvP? (j/k Macskull)

[Troo]

28 minutes ago, Bopper said:

That wasn't the reason.

Maybe you could expand on what the idea was and why it is where it is.

 

Right now overall it does feel like a change, on top of a change, on top of a change, to try and make the problem fit the solution. Like the dutch boy plugging holes in the dike.

 

I am struggling with a couple basic things on this.

• Wouldn't just reducing some animations times and a couple adjustments do the exact same thing?
• Why try so hard to cram a combo into an existing power set.