Focused Feedback: Other Powers Changes

[zenblack]

2 hours ago, parabola said:

Indeed. If I could make a couple of suggestions though? Where a change isn't being made due to an exploit would it be possible to provide a little commentary on the reasoning behind the change? It might also be an idea to feedback that further changes are being thought about/worked on if they aren't being included in a build. Otherwise it's all too easy to assume the change has been finalized.

I hate this idea. I would rather the limited time that is available for development be used for development. If they choose to engage with the community it is completely up to them.

[Vanden]

6 minutes ago, zenblack said:

I hate this idea. I would rather the limited time that is available for development be used for development. If they choose to engage with the community it is completely up to them.

I don't think it takes a whole lot of anyone's time to write explanations for the patch notes, but you'll note that the devs already do that and it we still get posters going "I don't get why this was done, please explain it more."

[zenblack]

11 minutes ago, Vanden said:

I don't think it takes a whole lot of anyone's time to write explanations for the patch notes, but you'll note that the devs already do that and it we still get posters going "I don't get why this was done, please explain it more."

I agree that it seems the Dev team puts effort into communicating, especially with this particular open beta. My point was that this particular suggestion is not a good use of resources.

Edited November 8, 2020 by zenblack

[WindDemon21]

4 hours ago, Jimmy said:

It may surprise you to learn that we don't have time to work on every feature between every build 🙂

So that may mean that this completely unnecessary change that never should have even been a twinkle in your eyes let alone had time put into it to begin with may be reverted back in the next build before it goes live? 🙂

[BrandX]

6 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

So that may mean that this completely unnecessary change that never should have even been a twinkle in your eyes let alone had time put into it to begin with may be reverted back in the next build before it goes live? 🙂

I'm hoping that's what that reply meant.

[InvaderStych]

On 10/24/2020 at 5:43 AM, Jimmy said:

Taunt Aura Slotting

The following powers now accept Taunt Enhancement Sets:

 

Quick question, and apologies if it has been asked and answered in the last 13 pages*:

 

What is the reasoning behind disallowing Taunt sets on Scrapper Beta Decay?

 

The Scrapper versions of RttC, AAO, Entropic Aura, and Invincibility are all getting taunt sets (and many thanks for that, btw), why not Beta Decay?

 

Similar question, to a lesser degree, on Scrapper Evasion and Integration although I could see not wanting a taunt from those, thematically, on a Scrapper.

 

 

Edit' * = I did a search in this thread for "Beta Decay" and came up empty, but since that didn't find the phrase in the OP spoiler block my seach-fu may have failed.

Edited November 8, 2020 by InvaderStych

[Siderous]

I was testing out the stacking of things and made a ninjutsu scrapper took super speed, combat jump and shinobi.  then picked up Ninja Run.  So, I still feel that if we take a power ( which uses a power slot) we should see that power stack.  I don't think it should stack within itself, meaning combat jumping not with super jump, but with all other +jump powers. Same with +run powers and +fly powers... there is a reason for travel speed caps.  Also, feel if you are going to suppress it should be the one with the higher value suppressing the other.  Combat jumping always suppresses ninja run even though NR has higher values..  Could it be possible to leave NR run and jump buffs, but allow the combat jumping +defense when you have both selected?

 

Now, what I did find out I really don't like is that Ninja Run straight from the P2W vendor is better than a three slotted zephyr Shinobi.  That doesn't make any sense.  Shinobi (all forms on all ATs) should be better than Ninja Run.  Shinobi unslotted should = Ninja Run then allow me to choose to slot it better or not.  Armor versions you have to decide to increase the defense or the travel portion and use important slots that define a build.

 

Have to say really like the stance change.

[BrandX]

1 hour ago, Siderous said:

I was testing out the stacking of things and made a ninjutsu scrapper took super speed, combat jump and shinobi.  then picked up Ninja Run.  So, I still feel that if we take a power ( which uses a power slot) we should see that power stack.  I don't think it should stack within itself, meaning combat jumping not with super jump, but with all other +jump powers. Same with +run powers and +fly powers... there is a reason for travel speed caps.  Also, feel if you are going to suppress it should be the one with the higher value suppressing the other.  Combat jumping always suppresses ninja run even though NR has higher values..  Could it be possible to leave NR run and jump buffs, but allow the combat jumping +defense when you have both selected?

 

Now, what I did find out I really don't like is that Ninja Run straight from the P2W vendor is better than a three slotted zephyr Shinobi.  That doesn't make any sense.  Shinobi (all forms on all ATs) should be better than Ninja Run.  Shinobi unslotted should = Ninja Run then allow me to choose to slot it better or not.  Armor versions you have to decide to increase the defense or the travel portion and use important slots that define a build.

 

Have to say really like the stance change.

 

As of now, NR detoggles CJ.  Which just had me skipping CJ on builds I really wanted to run around with NR on.  That includes sets that weren't Ninjitsu.

[WindDemon21]

14 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

As of now, NR detoggles CJ.  Which just had me skipping CJ on builds I really wanted to run around with NR on.  That includes sets that weren't Ninjitsu.

Which has ALWAYS been really dumb. Cj should stack with nr.

[BrandX]

18 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Which has ALWAYS been really dumb. Cj should stack with nr.

 

I agree.  I understood why Stealth didn't, but would've been nice for CJ to stack with Shinobi-Iri and NR.

 

I haven't found Ninjitsu to be overpowered because it had some movement.  Just a fun benefit 🙂

[Siderous]

10 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

As of now, NR detoggles CJ.  Which just had me skipping CJ on builds I really wanted to run around with NR on.  That includes sets that weren't Ninjitsu.

hmm weird, I'm pretty sure that NR and CJ both stayed toggled but the jump height and jump speed significantly lowered.  I'll take another look at it later.

[Wavicle]

On 10/24/2020 at 11:34 AM, DreadShinobi said:

Accolade recharge adjustment literally nerfs every single one of my characters that have enough recharge to put Geas/Demonic on a 7-8 min cooldown. Much disappointment here.

People still bother getting click accolades?

[Wavicle]

I like the new Touch of Fear.

 

My suggestion is to slightly increase the duration of the Fear and also slightly increase the Damage and Recharge time.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Wavicle

[Siderous]

11 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

As of now, NR detoggles CJ.  Which just had me skipping CJ on builds I really wanted to run around with NR on.  That includes sets that weren't Ninjitsu.

Yeah,  you are correct NR detoggles CJ.  I was thinking CJ and Shinobi which both stay toggled but CJ suppresses Shinobi even though Shinobi has higher jump values.

[BrandX]

8 minutes ago, Siderous said:

Yeah,  you are correct NR detoggles CJ.  I was thinking CJ and Shinobi which both stay toggled but CJ suppresses Shinobi even though Shinobi has higher jump values.

 

I didn't realize CJ Jump took over Shinobi Jump though.  Players at least keep the defense bonus I guess.

[WindDemon21]

7 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

I didn't realize CJ Jump took over Shinobi Jump though.  Players at least keep the defense bonus I guess.

Which nearly everyone does with this armor set. If it's NOT getting reverted, honestly just drop the movement bonus and give it more defense cause the movement bonus in it is pointless then if it doesn't stack.

[BrandX]

1 minute ago, WindDemon21 said:

Which nearly everyone does with this armor set. If it's NOT getting reverted, honestly just drop the movement bonus and give it more defense cause the movement bonus in it is pointless then if it doesn't stack.

 

I got the feeling from one post, the movement bonus was coming back.

 

However, CJ not working with NR has kept me from grabbing CJ on a few, just because of the detoggling 😛

[WindDemon21]

12 hours ago, BrandX said:

 

I got the feeling from one post, the movement bonus was coming back.

 

However, CJ not working with NR has kept me from grabbing CJ on a few, just because of the detoggling 😛

Which is also extremely pointless and hopefully will be let to stack too. I've ran gymastics and ninja run, and gym with cj, and neither were by any means game breaking.

[Gobbledigook]

Could we get the - to hit debuff added to Touch of Fear AoE and not just the single target? Remove it from Shadow Maul if necessary. ToF hits more targets which would be better as other sets have KDs and stuns etc in AoEs. 

 

Increase the Radius of ToF slightly to 8ft at least please, so it can hit it's target cap easier. I don't believe it is hitting it's cap as it is, 10 maybe rather than 16 for a Tanker.

 

Perhaps give the main target the full -to hit debuff and the AoE component gives a 50%reduced to hit debuff.

Edited November 10, 2020 by Gobbledegook

[BrandX]

20 minutes ago, WindDemon21 said:

Which is also extremely pointless and hopefully will be let to stack too. I've ran gymastics and ninja run, and gym with cj, and neither were by any means game breaking.

 

I agree.  If it improves a non power pool travel power.  Oh well.  It's just a small bonus of a set.  My main is StJ/Nin right now, and I use NR and Fly as travel powers.  Not everyone is going to run to Ninjitsu Power Sets or Tactical Arrow for a power that enhances movement.  Just a perk, not game breaking.  

[WindDemon21]

16 minutes ago, Gobbledegook said:

Could we get the - to hit debuff added to Touch of Fear AoE and not just the single target? Remove it from Shadow Maul if necessary. ToF hits more targets which would be better as other sets have KDs and stuns etc in AoEs.

 

Increase the Radius of ToF slightly to 8ft at least please, so it can hit it's target cap easier.

I thought the same thing, to soul drain/dc as well, and death shroud on dark armor. Doesn't make sense when pretty much every other dark attack has -to hit yet these ones don't.

 

I hardly think a 5% thd that would drop after 10 seconds would be anywhere near too much.

[Laenan]

I would prefer if the small perk of the movement buff in those secondaries continued to stack with other travel powers. It's such a minor niche thing but it was a nice extra for those sets. This nerf feels unnecessary.

[InvaderStych]

IMO:  The speed buff stacking from /Nin Shinobi is a very nice and thematic QoL trade-off for a set that lacks a "taunt aura" for Scrappers.

 

Never even noticed that it did not stack +jump with CJ.  I just defaulted to running both for the brief moment I was running that toon on Live.

[Mezmera]

19 hours ago, Wavicle said:

People still bother getting click accolades?

Yes.  Demonic is a nice extra layer of emergency defenses.  I'm not so perturbed by the change to recharge since my characters have a bunch of layers so I don't run around depending on Demonic for my salvation, although it is a nice extra thing in your pocket in a pinch.  

 

All of my favorite characters I get the HP accolades and Demonic.  

[modest]

This feedback is for the Dark Melee changes that are on the Beta server as of Tuesday, November 10, 2020. I tested Dark Melee on a Dark Melee/Energy Aura Stalker. My feedback is for the Stalker version of Dark Melee.

 

Shadow Maul:

 

The power changes notes state that the target cap of Shadow Maul was reduced from 10 to 5. This version of Shadow Maul has a 7 ft. radius and 120° arc.

 

I tested this version of Shadow Maul by attempting to line up groups of enemies in the Rikti War Zone. I gained their attention, then circled until they were in as tight of a clump as possible. Once they were grouped together, I faced the group as close as possible and activated Shadow Maul. I was unable to hit 5 enemies in any of the tests that I attempted. I suspect that the cause of this was the 7ft radius. My recommendation is to increase the radius to 9ft or 10ft.

 

My conclusion when testing this change is that the target cap reduction does not have a measurable impact on the power because it is either incapable of hitting 5 enemies in most game play.

 

Touch of Fear:

 

Unfortunately, it is difficult for me to provide constructive feedback on this power because, as far as I can tell, it has no redeeming qualities.

 

Touch of Fear is a Targeted AOE attack with a 7ft range, a 6ft radius, and a target cap of 10. On a Stalker, it does 5 ticks of 9.60 negative damage over 3.1s (48 damage). It has an animation time of 1.97 seconds before Arcanatime.

 

Here are the issues that I identified with this power:

• It is functionally impossible to hit more than 3 enemies with this power due to its 6ft radius. The 10 target cap is essentially meaningless.
• The damage is too low to be meaningful. At level 50 with full T4 incarnates, this power takes four or more applications to kill a level 50 minion.
• The damage takes too long to be applied. 3.1 seconds is simply too long, especially given the low damage per tick.
• The animation time of 1.97 seconds is too long. It would be tolerable if this were an exceptionally high-damaging power.

 

Conclusion:

 

After play testing these changes, I have come to the conclusion that the target cap change to Shadow Maul has no measurable effect on the power. Touch of Fear is the single worst AOE power that I have ever play tested, and I have no positive feedback to provide regarding it. Every aspect of that power is poorly designed.

 

When Dark Melee AOE buffs were first discussed, @Captain Powerhouse suggested providing Dark Melee with a mini-nuke similar to Lightning Rod, but without the teleport component. I thought that his suggestion was good at the time, and I still feel that it is a good suggestion. I recommend completely removing these changes to Dark Melee from the i27 update until a better solution can be devised.

 

Dark Melee is currently an under-performing set based on the tests performed by @Galaxy Brain. If these changes are implemented, then they will have no positive effect on Stalkers. These changes are effectively a minor but unnoticeable nerf to an under-performing set.