Can we improve Photon Seekers? and other thoughts on my PB

[Wavicle]

The more I've played my PB in its Homecoming iteration the more I think I'm actually very happy with how it plays.

I don't really need Human form mez protection because Light Form is nearly perma (I have a t2 Alpha helping with that, but most of my IOs are generics) when solo and usually perma on teams.

 

I don't really need shapeshift toggle suppression because again Light Form has me Res capped without my toggles.

I don't need Human form Taunts because I can switch to Dwarf while in Light Form.

I don't really think the damage cap needs to increase. Warshades do fine damage with their current cap, the difference really being the pet far more than the Mires.

 

 

Single target damage could definitely come up. My preference for this would be to make Incandescent Strike shorter in animation time.

I wouldn't mind Glowing Touch getting some sort of secondary effect...+Perception maybe?

But I think the main power that is the culprit for PB underperformance (or PERCEIVED underperformance) is Photon Seekers.

 

Perhaps something could be done to improve the Seekers? Add a buff/debuff/heal secondary effect maybe?
 

Edited November 2, 2020 by Wavicle

[Greycat]

Photon Seekers are... ugh. They're horrible, they've always been horrible, most of the time I remember them doing anything it's just sitting there adding a little white puff to the back of a target's head and not doing anything.

 

Maybe throw a ranged blast or two into them for a few seconds before they explode (or don't.)

[Wavicle]

I don't think they are going to get turned into an actual pet.

My minimal suggestion is: Add to PS an Enhanceable Defense Debuff effect similar to other PB attacks AND make the Seekers each provide an (Unenhanceable but moderately strong) AoE Heal to Self and Allies on explosion OR when they disappear.

Edited November 3, 2020 by Wavicle

[chi1701]

On 11/2/2020 at 8:54 PM, Wavicle said:

The more I've played my PB in its Homecoming iteration the more I think I'm actually very happy with how it plays.

I don't really need Human form mez protection because Light Form is nearly perma (I have a t2 Alpha helping with that, but most of my IOs are generics) when solo and usually perma on teams.

 

I don't really need shapeshift toggle suppression because again Light Form has me Res capped without my toggles.

I don't need Human form Taunts because I can switch to Dwarf while in Light Form.

I don't really think the damage cap needs to increase. Warshades do fine damage with their current cap, the difference really being the pet far more than the Mires.

 

 

Single target damage could definitely come up. My preference for this would be to make Incandescent Strike shorter in animation time.

I wouldn't mind Glowing Touch getting some sort of secondary effect...+Perception maybe?

But I think the main power that is the culprit for PB underperformance (or PERCEIVED underperformance) is Photon Seekers.

 

Perhaps something could be done to improve the Seekers? Add a buff/debuff/heal secondary effect maybe?
 

 

Only going to say, your request for incandescent strike to have a shorter animation as a 100% never will happen. This animation isnt just used on peacebringer but is also used on other melee attacks, such as total focus, thunder strike

[Ohsirus]

2 hours ago, chi1701 said:

 

Only going to say, your request for incandescent strike to have a shorter animation as a 100% never will happen. This animation isnt just used on peacebringer but is also used on other melee attacks, such as total focus, thunder strike

Interesting you mentioned total focus as they shortened the activation time, but the animation length is the same. Looks akward.

[chi1701]

14 minutes ago, Ohsirus said:

Interesting you mentioned total focus as they shortened the activation time, but the animation length is the same. Looks akward.

True, its a good argument if it goes live for both keldian and electric melee changes.

[Wavicle]

Given that they have already shortened the animation for total focus, I actually think asking for the same thing for incandescent is a very very reasonable thing.

[Ohsirus]

5 hours ago, Wavicle said:

Given that they have already shortened the animation for total focus, I actually think asking for the same thing for incandescent is a very very reasonable thing.

Last I checked the animation time was the same, it just registered the hit sooner. You are still rooted for the extra second.

[Wavicle]

4 minutes ago, Ohsirus said:

Last I checked the animation time was the same, it just registered the hit sooner. You are still rooted for the extra second.

On the test server it is actually faster. Hasn’t gone live yet.

[Solarverse]

I have not used Photon Seekers since they first came out. Once I tried it and realized just how useless they were, I thought, 'what a shame, such a bad ass visual effects and such a cool concept, but they are utterly useless. Why didn't they make them temp pets like they did with Dark Extraction?' Then I respecced the character out of Photon Seekers, made a request for them to change on the Live forums, was insulted and bashed for even suggestion a change, told they were fine as is and they did not need to change, people acted like I was in the minority of the players who felt they were useless and if I felt they were useless, then I don't understand the class, basically spit on...so I have just said screw it and have not spoke on it or used that power since then.

You have my support on this thread, hopefully it goes better for you here on Homecoming than it did for me on Live.

[Greycat]

1 hour ago, Solarverse said:

Then I respecced the character out of Photon Seekers, made a request for them to change on the Live forums, was insulted and bashed for even suggestion a change, told they were fine as is and they did not need to change, people acted like I was in the minority of the players who felt they were useless and if I felt they were useless, then I don't understand the class, basically spit on...so I have just said screw it and have not spoke on it or used that power since then.

You have my support on this thread, hopefully it goes better for you here on Homecoming than it did for me on Live.

Huh. I remember the general feeling on live (even on the forums) was that they were bad - specifically the AI that determined a target and when to explode (see "floating there giving that Circle mage's hat a fuzzy ball at the tip.") The general workaround was to summon them in melee, right on top of your target, and hope they exploded, but that's far from ideal. And yeah, I pretty much don't take them any more, either, or take them as an "eh, nothing else I want" pick.

 

I think Seeker Drones do a better job in general (they actually seem to seek,) but even they fail to explode sometimes. Just ("Just," in this spaghetti code, I know) copying what they do over to PS would be an improvement.

[Gulbasaur]

I don't really need Human form mez protection because Light Form is nearly perma (I have a t2 Alpha helping with that, but most of my IOs are generics) when solo and usually perma on teams.

 

I sort of agree with this, not because of Light Form but because mezzes are a game mechanic and you shouldn't be able to ignore them so uniformly. 

 

I don't really need shapeshift toggle suppression because again Light Form has me Res capped without my toggles.

 

This is a huge playstyle thing - perma Light Form, like permadom and other slightly broken mechanics, is only really achievable through throwing money at a build. It would be nice ot have options for people who don't want to chase recharge above all else. 

Single target damage could definitely come up. My preference for this would be to make Incandescent Strike shorter in animation time.

 

YES. The hour-long animation is dreadful.

But I think the main power that is the culprit for PB underperformance (or PERCEIVED underperformance) is Photon Seekers.

 

I'd respectfully disagree - there are wider issues. PB's have melee options but no real melee attack chain. The forms don't progress, which is another issue, meaning they're powerful when you get them but mediocre within about 15 levels. Nova has a superb attack chain for level 6, but just ends up being a blaster without options by the late teens. Dwarf is about the toughtest tank there is when you get it, but by the mid-30s it's just outpaced.

 

I'm not saying PB's should be the best at everything, but they really do feel like the masters of none in a post-IO world. If you compare them to warshades (very good synergy between forms due to self-buffs), widows and soldiers (strong base powersets without much compromise), peacebringers just feel the most meh. Which is a shame, because they're super fun to play. 

[Wavicle]

I dunno, PB Build Up got changed into a longer lasting form that is also permaable, you can switch form in Light Form, and it really didn't cost me much inf to get where she is now. I feel like in terms of self buffs giving form synergy PBs are rather comparable to WSs. It's the pet that makes the real difference. ymmv


I switch forms a LOT, so I don't feel restricted by the forms not progressing. They're just more tools in my kit.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Wavicle

[Solarverse]

3 hours ago, Wavicle said:

I dunno, PB Build Up got changed into a longer lasting form that is also permaable, you can switch form in Light Form, and it really didn't cost me much inf to get where she is now. I feel like in terms of self buffs giving form synergy PBs are rather comparable to WSs. It's the pet that makes the real difference. ymmv


I switch forms a LOT, so I don't feel restricted by the forms not progressing. They're just more tools in my kit.

My WS deals considerably more damage than my PB. And I think that is more due to the fact that I can have 3 pets up at one time. Those three pets plus my attacks really dishes out the pain, heh.

[Dragon Crush]

So, had an icarnated PB on live but haven't gotten around to starting one here again, so my thoughts on improvements may be outdated...

 

Maybe turning PS into pets with a small bit of HP (like 250-300 at 50) who trigger a damaging explosion on death, along with either an AE buff or debuff. Also give them 1 or 2 melee attacks that do self-damage every time they attack  and have a gauntlet style taunt to clump enemies around them, resistance to heals (so you can't keep them up), tons of ranged/AoE def but no melee def, and maybe some code so they spread out or stagger a little.

 

They'd then be able to eat alphas if lightform is down and/or if you know the spawn has nasty mez/debuffs as well as providing a bit more utility and damage. 

 

I also think that inner light could use... something. A proc of some sort maybe? Not sure beyond feeling like it looses to mire. Pulsar could use damage, maybe a better mez, and conserve energy could have it's recharge cut a little.

[Doomrider]

The original concept for Photon Seekers from the original Kheldian Epic Archetypes design doc Rev 4:

"Energy Drones - Summons 5 energy balls (pets) next to the caster, each with varying movement speed.  The energy balls follow the caster until they detect a target.  Then they rush to the target and explode on impact, destroying themselves and doing a small AoE damage.  This could possible be a toggle, periodically summoning a new energy ball every 30 seconds or so, each with a timer so no more than 5 can be alive at one time)"

It's interesting to see what they originally had in mind versus the pet version we have now.  Now I'm not sure if it's possible to change it into a toggle but if we entertain it as a possibility even theoretically it could come with a few advantages:

1) It would work passively, without a long animation and would increase ST damage output for long engagements (AV fights for instance) but still likely be bursty when engaging the alpha after you've accrued a few of them.
2) If it was not a pet and a toggle instead, it would benefit from global damage bonuses which would be nice since current Seekers do not.


 

[Solarverse]

1 hour ago, Doomrider said:

The original concept for Photon Seekers from the original Kheldian Epic Archetypes design doc Rev 4:

"Energy Drones - Summons 5 energy balls (pets) next to the caster, each with varying movement speed.  The energy balls follow the caster until they detect a target.  Then they rush to the target and explode on impact, destroying themselves and doing a small AoE damage.  This could possible be a toggle, periodically summoning a new energy ball every 30 seconds or so, each with a timer so no more than 5 can be alive at one time)"

It's interesting to see what they originally had in mind versus the pet version we have now.  Now I'm not sure if it's possible to change it into a toggle but if we entertain it as a possibility even theoretically it could come with a few advantages:

1) It would work passively, without a long animation and would increase ST damage output for long engagements (AV fights for instance) but still likely be bursty when engaging the alpha after you've accrued a few of them.
2) If it was not a pet and a toggle instead, it would benefit from global damage bonuses which would be nice since current Seekers do not.


 

I can dig that.

[SeraphimKensai]

3 hours ago, Doomrider said:

The original concept for Photon Seekers from the original Kheldian Epic Archetypes design doc Rev 4:

"Energy Drones - Summons 5 energy balls (pets) next to the caster, each with varying movement speed.  The energy balls follow the caster until they detect a target.  Then they rush to the target and explode on impact, destroying themselves and doing a small AoE damage.  This could possible be a toggle, periodically summoning a new energy ball every 30 seconds or so, each with a timer so no more than 5 can be alive at one time)"

It's interesting to see what they originally had in mind versus the pet version we have now.  Now I'm not sure if it's possible to change it into a toggle but if we entertain it as a possibility even theoretically it could come with a few advantages:

1) It would work passively, without a long animation and would increase ST damage output for long engagements (AV fights for instance) but still likely be bursty when engaging the alpha after you've accrued a few of them.
2) If it was not a pet and a toggle instead, it would benefit from global damage bonuses which would be nice since current Seekers do not.

I could get behind a toggled photon seeker swarm. 

 

/Signed

[Doomrider]

1 hour ago, SeraphimKensai said:

I could get behind a toggled photon seeker swarm. 

 

/Signed

Now, the only PITA with this would be that Photon Seekers would toggle off when using forms and it would de-toggle when mezzed since it would be an offensive toggle.

If a work around could be made so that the toggle would spawn all Seekers upon activation then it's possible the power could retain the original functionality for Tri-formers while still being usable as a toggle for Human only players. Assuming that were possible, I would imagine the power would need to retain much of it's high initial end cost and recharge though for balance.

Edited November 5, 2020 by Doomrider

[Greycat]

38 minutes ago, Doomrider said:

Now, the only PITA with this would be that Photon Seekers would toggle off when using forms and it would de-toggle when mezzed since it would be an offensive toggle.

If a work around could be made so that the toggle would spawn all Seekers upon activation then it's possible the power could retain the original functionality for Tri-formers while still being usable as a toggle for Human only players. Assuming that were possible, I would imagine the power would need to retain much of it's high initial end cost and recharge though for balance.

I'd point out that, even if the toggle got detoggled by a mez, whatever seekers out there would still (hopefully) find a target and explode, so it'd still be useful.

 

Or, given their historic AI, they'd make nice decorations for whatever room you're in while you search desperately for a breakfree. 🙂

[Wavicle]

44 minutes ago, Doomrider said:

Now, the only PITA with this would be that Photon Seekers would toggle off when using forms and it would de-toggle when mezzed since it would be an offensive toggle.

If a work around could be made so that the toggle would spawn all Seekers upon activation then it's possible the power could retain the original functionality for Tri-formers while still being usable as a toggle for Human only players. Assuming that were possible, I would imagine the power would need to retain much of it's high initial end cost and recharge though for balance.

If possible make it a Click Self buff that spawns a new Seeker every 30 seconds for the duration.

[Whitest Light]

I'd be all for the Incandescent Strike animation reduction. PBs really don't have a good attack chain and IS is part of the problem because it's 3 seconds of no DPS. 

 

As for the Photon Seekers, I'd much prefer they just float around and shoot Gleaming Bolts for their duration. The player would also have the option of using them to kamikaze but this wouldn't be their default behavior until their timer runs out and then they seek out enemies as before.  Likewise, if they take enough damage to die, they explode per usual. Overall, this would improve PB single-target damage (especially if all 3 are attacking the same target) while not taking anything away because the player can elect to detonate them should they choose. 

 

 

[Wavicle]

I find it highly unlikely the devs are going to make them into actual pets, which is why my suggestions tend toward improving them as bombs.