The Future - An Open Letter from the Homecoming Team

[Sothoth]

Any thing looking to be done about the epidemic of people doing DFB (Death from below)? I know some people are looking for quick levels. but when LFG chat is nothing but DFB LFM call outs. its a little bit annoying. (seeing this consistently on Everlasting)

 

Its even a little concerning the few times I did it, the groups I was in had at least 1 - 3 level 50+veterancy ( Task forces are wonderfull, so are strikes. would love to see more people wanting to do those to work on merits sets...)

 

Agreed. Dfb has overwhelmed lfg.

 

Stop trying to make people play they game the way you want them to play it.

[eldriyth]

Any thing looking to be done about the epidemic of people doing DFB (Death from below)? I know some people are looking for quick levels. but when LFG chat is nothing but DFB LFM call outs. its a little bit annoying. (seeing this consistently on Everlasting)

 

Its even a little concerning the few times I did it, the groups I was in had at least 1 - 3 level 50+veterancy ( Task forces are wonderfull, so are strikes. would love to see more people wanting to do those to work on merits sets...)

 

Agreed. Dfb has overwhelmed lfg.

 

Stop trying to make people play they game the way you want them to play it.

 

 

I agree honestly.. If people want to spend more time than getting PLed by a spine/fire brute to hit 50 in DFB, let them. Who cares when their are faster methods? Hell, level 50 is just the beginning. Incarnates are where it's at for progression.

[justicebeliever]

Agreed. Dfb has overwhelmed lfg.

 

Stop trying to make people play they game the way you want them to play it.

 

 

I agree honestly.. If people want to spend more time than getting PLed by a spine/fire brute to hit 50 in DFB. Let them. Who cares when there are faster methods?

 

You guys are responding to something that was said 2 1/2 weeks ago...DFB was nerfed since this thread, and we've all moved on...

 

2 1/2 weeks on a forum is like what 2 years in real life, and 12 in dog years?

[eldriyth]

Agreed. Dfb has overwhelmed lfg.

 

Stop trying to make people play they game the way you want them to play it.

 

 

I agree honestly.. If people want to spend more time than getting PLed by a spine/fire brute to hit 50 in DFB. Let them. Who cares when there are faster methods?

 

You guys are responding to something that was said 2 1/2 weeks ago...DFB was nerfed since this thread, and we've all moved on...

 

2 1/2 weeks on a forum is like what 2 years in real life, and 12 in dog years?

 

Thanks for adding absolutely nothing worth while to read to this thread.

[justicebeliever]

 

Thanks for adding absolutely nothing worth while to read to this thread.

 

That's my point.  There is no adding to this thread...To jump in and attack someone (you didn't) after 2 1/2 weeks is just looking for trouble, not adding anything.

 

I'm sure I can search for anybody whose posted for more than a month and find something I can disagree with that is a few weeks old, but that's just being ornery, not contributing...

 

And since the opinion you've posted has been repeated 2 billion times (dog math) on this very forum, almost verbatim, it's not really "adding" anything new either...

[Abraxus]

There really is nothing further to add.  The changes were made, some adjustments were made after that to make it closer to what was intended in the original patch.  That's the bottom line, and it is the reality of things.  All folks have to do, is decide if they themselves wish to play here under those terms.  If not, there are choices that did not exist during the original run to find place to play where the situation is more to your liking.  If you do like being here, we should be concerned with nobody's play style, other than our own, unless someone else's infringes upon yours in some tangible way.  Complaining about how others choose to play, under the terms given, accomplishes nothing. 

 

Just enjoy the game folks!  Is it perfect? No.  Is anything? NO!  I for one love the game being back, and I accept it as it is, warts and all.  I consider that vastly superior to lamenting it's shut down, and longing for it's return.  Now that it has, I have no complaints, with the possible exception of not being able to play as often, and for as long as I wish.  Because I would be spending a LOT more time in-game if circumstances allowed.

[dduttonnc]

What I dont get is why NCSoft even cares?

 

1) They shut the game down

2) they have no desire to sell or license out the software

 

Ergo, they have no plans, no desire to make any monetary gain of the game anymore

 

So why do they care what's done with the source code or if there's servers online?

[Impulse]

What I dont get is why NCSoft even cares?

 

1) They shut the game down

2) they have no desire to sell or license out the software

 

Ergo, they have no plans, no desire to make any monetary gain of the game anymore

 

So why do they care what's done with the source code or if there's servers online?

 

Because it's their original (intellectual property) IP and it is copyright protected, and as long as they hold the license, and refuse to sell it, there's very little that can be done about it.

 

Anyone starting up a private server for any game runs the risk of a cease and desist letter from the developer's lawyers at any time for that single reason alone.

 

I know this is a shot in the dark, obviously, but what if the community were to band together, and collectively through email or letters ask NCSoft to sell us the license, they might listen. Wouldn't it be worth it in the long run? It would give those who already work on it here, free rein to do what they want with the game, including monetizing it or parts of it to keep it running, legally. Get a price, do a crowdfunding event, then buy the license. Set up an actual company and brand name. But yeah, like i said, a shot in the dark, still worth trying IMHO.

[srmalloy]

I know this is a shot in the dark, obviously, but what if the community were to band together, and collectively through email or letters ask NCSoft to sell us the license, they might listen. Wouldn't it be worth it in the long run? It would give those who already work on it here, free rein to do what they want with the game, including monetizing it or parts of it to keep it running, legally. Get a price, do a crowdfunding event, then buy the license. Set up an actual company and brand name. But yeah, like i said, a shot in the dark, still worth trying IMHO.

 

If you go over to the forums at the Titan Network, you will find a number of threads connected with several different efforts to get NCsoft to sell or license the City of Heroes IP, going back to an account of the attempt by Paragon Studios to buy itself free of NCsoft and become an independent entity prior to the closure of Paragon Studios in September 2012. Aside from nebulous statements about 'progress', there has been little or no evidence that anything is moving forward on any of these attempts, mostly from a lack of response on the part of NCsoft.

[Abraxus]

Yup.  It's been tried before, by different teams, using different approaches...ALL under NDA mind you, so we never got any of the details.  Not even when the efforts failed.  So, quite the frustrating experience each time, until enough time passed for folks to just presume it dead, and a little more hope died with it.  Then, last April, news broke of the shadow server, and everything literally exploded from there, to where we are right now.

 

I don't know what might be going on behind the scenes, but I'm playing my game again, and as long as that isn't being threatened in any meaningful way, I am content to let these things go on as they will, until we have a permanent solution.

[CabooseCC]

Thank you for all your hard work and I am eager to donate when the next cycle opens.  With all the changes you've made via i25 I've been reacquainted with that old magic that drew me to the game back in the day!  You guys are great!

[Sicken]

I would suspect NCSoft has a very good idea of how loved the game is and recognizes that the value of the asset is extraordinarily high, even though they don't plan on doing anything with the game.  They still have the right to say, "1 BILLION Dollars!"  Obviously nobody can afford a ridiculously high price-tag as it would cripple the new holder of the game's code from the outset.

[srmalloy]

They still have the right to say, "1 BILLION Dollars!"  Obviously nobody can afford a ridiculously high price-tag as it would cripple the new holder of the game's code from the outset.

 

Take the figure with a truckload of salt, but IIRC one of the numbers being tossed around in the "buy CoH from NCsoft" threads on the Titan Forums was eighty million dollars for the IP, source, and binaries (I don't recall if that included the player data or not).

[eldriyth]

There really is nothing further to add.  The changes were made, some adjustments were made after that to make it closer to what was intended in the original patch.  That's the bottom line, and it is the reality of things.  All folks have to do, is decide if they themselves wish to play here under those terms.  If not, there are choices that did not exist during the original run to find place to play where the situation is more to your liking.  If you do like being here, we should be concerned with nobody's play style, other than our own, unless someone else's infringes upon yours in some tangible way.  Complaining about how others choose to play, under the terms given, accomplishes nothing. 

 

Just enjoy the game folks!  Is it perfect? No.  Is anything? NO!  I for one love the game being back, and I accept it as it is, warts and all.  I consider that vastly superior to lamenting it's shut down, and longing for it's return.  Now that it has, I have no complaints, with the possible exception of not being able to play as often, and for as long as I wish.  Because I would be spending a LOT more time in-game if circumstances allowed.

 

 

I am seriously tired of this bullshit excuse to not fix parts of the game. "Oh I'm just glad that City of Heroes is back. Warts and all." Dude, that was like forever ago. That horse is dead and the shock of the game being back is gone too. So absolutely YES, It's best to move on and fix shit that's broken and rebalance everything. You don't just stop and smell the roses in game development and think that things will fix themselves. There are multitudes of problems that need addressed right now.

[Healix]

eld, people that are running this server are doing it on their own dime without pay, and I they all have lives/jobs outside of the game. I am pretty sure that things will get worked on and improved as time goes by. I AGREE with you that there are things that need fixing, but perhaps it may take a little time. More talented people might become part of the dev team who are adept at graphics and spaghetti code and help make those changes! I truly don't think the GMs are making excuses, perhaps it will just take more time and help.

[justicebeliever]

I am seriously tired of this bullshit excuse to not fix parts of the game. "Oh I'm just glad that City of Heroes is back. Warts and all." Dude, that was like forever ago. That horse is dead and the shock of the game being back is gone too. So absolutely YES, It's best to move on and fix shit that's broken and rebalance everything. You don't just stop and smell the roses in game development and think that things will fix themselves. There are multitudes of problems that need addressed right now.

 

No excuse is needed.  We are not customers of Homecoming.  They are not charging you for the priviledge of playing.  You are a guest, and not entitled to anything, except what the host chooses to provide.  This is a private server, essentially someone else's home.

 

If you are seriously tired, then you have 3 options:

1.) Step away, it's just a game and if it's really causing you such stress maybe you need to do something different

2.) Go somewhere else - there are other private servers available to you.  Maybe they will be to your liking?

3.) Start your own server.  The notes are out there, and then you are the master of your own destiny and everything can be your way

 

Or, maybe you aren't that seriously tired, and then maybe you should learn to be content with what you have and not all the things you don't have.

 

And what nice hosts HC are, because they are listening to the community and choosing to spend their volunteer time to provide improvements we are asking for.

 

Enjoy your stay..the hosts are really nice and treat us with respect.  Please show the same as a good guest

[Abraxus]

There really is nothing further to add.  The changes were made, some adjustments were made after that to make it closer to what was intended in the original patch.  That's the bottom line, and it is the reality of things.  All folks have to do, is decide if they themselves wish to play here under those terms.  If not, there are choices that did not exist during the original run to find place to play where the situation is more to your liking.  If you do like being here, we should be concerned with nobody's play style, other than our own, unless someone else's infringes upon yours in some tangible way.  Complaining about how others choose to play, under the terms given, accomplishes nothing. 

 

Just enjoy the game folks!  Is it perfect? No.  Is anything? NO!  I for one love the game being back, and I accept it as it is, warts and all.  I consider that vastly superior to lamenting it's shut down, and longing for it's return.  Now that it has, I have no complaints, with the possible exception of not being able to play as often, and for as long as I wish.  Because I would be spending a LOT more time in-game if circumstances allowed.

 

 

I am seriously tired of this bullshit excuse to not fix parts of the game. "Oh I'm just glad that City of Heroes is back. Warts and all." Dude, that was like forever ago. That horse is dead and the shock of the game being back is gone too. So absolutely YES, It's best to move on and fix shit that's broken and rebalance everything. You don't just stop and smell the roses in game development and think that things will fix themselves. There are multitudes of problems that need addressed right now.

 

Entitled much? 

 

There is absolutely NOTHING these devs owe you, or anyone else.  They are already giving of their time, and resources to bring back a game that was DEAD!  If you don't like the way it is, and don't have enough faith that once things get into more of a groove, that more changes will come, then perhaps this isn't the place, or the game for you.  We are two months in, which is an infinitesimal amount of time on the whole; and in my experience, they have already accomplished miracles on our behalf in that time for nothing more than their love of the game.  You obviously don't share that sentiment, which is fine.  But, you seem to feel the need to inflict your take on things on the rest of us (who coincidentally make up the vast majority of players here), who are overjoyed with the way things are, and do have faith in the future of the Homecoming project, and the game itself.  We also have faith that things we might feel need attention, will get it when more important things have been addressed.  In the meantime, we are having an absolute blast playing the game, and appreciating what we have been given.

 

I have no issue with dissenting opinions, except when they attempt to classify everyone else's as moronic, or deluded, because they don't see things as you do.  When it crosses that line, my respect for your point of view falls to the point of total disregard. 

[jubakumbi]

There are multitudes of problems that need addressed right now.

 

So go and 'address' them?

No one is stopping you, the code is out there.

 

While you might be 'seriously tired' that people are grateful to be able to play over whining about pedantic minutiae, I am 'seriously tired' of the entitled attitude of people like you that call for _others_ to do your bidding while not lifting a finger, other than to type out condescending BS.

 

So, you want it 'fixed'?

Go fix it, big guy!

 

[Abraxus]

There are multitudes of problems that need addressed right now.

 

So go and 'address' them?

No one is stopping you, the code is out there.

 

While you might be 'seriously tired' that people are grateful to be able to play over whining about pedantic minutiae, I am 'seriously tired' of the entitled attitude of people like you that call for _others_ to do your bidding while not lifting a finger, other than to type out condescending BS.

 

So, you want it 'fixed'?

Go fix it, big guy!

 

Absolutely in agreement here!  If he thinks the game is just so broken that his experience playing is no longer fun, then he should pick-up a keyboard, join the dev team, and start working on fixing it himself, instead of complaining that others are not giving him what he wants quickly enough.

[Remidi]

Personally, I am getting 'seriously tired' of players who willfully ignore that Homecoming is not being run by NCSoft or any other company.  It is a group of hobby volunteers generously giving of their time and energy so that other people can play the game.  Play it for free, I might add.  No one has the right to demand anything of them.  They are letting you play in their sandbox.  Kicking sand in their faces and claiming they owe you a bigger, better sandbox is a serious jerk move.

[Abraxus]

Yup!

 

1. Homecoming = NOT NCSoft.

2. Homecoming = Offers game for no cost, unless you choose to donate.

3. Homecoming = No obligation to anyone.

 

Do they want to improve things?  Of course they do. 

 

Will what they plan to do ever happen as fast as all players want it to?  Of course it won't. 

 

Will those changes affect the exact parts of the game that every player sees as THE huge problem with the game?  No, it absolutely won't.

 

Will those unhappy players stick around and complain about that, rather than have some patience to see how things develop over the course of a year, as opposed to just two months it's been back in existence?  Most likely.

 

Does the Homecoming team, just perhaps, have some insight into the game that regular players are blissfully ignorant of, and that they have to look at things globally, taking into account balance issues, and game mechanics across the board; rather than doing what's popular?  Yeah, I think so.

 

Will the aforementioned unhappy players be willing to pitch into the effort, rather than waiting for it to happen, and complaining when the changes made are not the ones they consider to be the bane of the game?  Typically their nature is to wait for others to do things for them, and complain about the results.  But, I'd love to be proven wrong on that one.  Historically speaking though, the odds are against it.

[eldriyth]

Yup!

 

1. Homecoming = NOT NCSoft.

2. Homecoming = Offers game for no cost, unless you choose to donate.

3. Homecoming = No obligation to anyone.

 

Do they want to improve things?  Of course they do. 

 

Will what they plan to do ever happen as fast as all players want it to?  Of course it won't. 

 

Will those changes affect the exact parts of the game that every player sees as THE huge problem with the game?  No, it absolutely won't.

 

Will those unhappy players stick around and complain about that, rather than have some patience to see how things develop over the course of a year, as opposed to just two months it's been back in existence?  Most likely.

 

Does the Homecoming team, just perhaps, have some insight into the game that regular players are blissfully ignorant of, and that they have to look at things globally, taking into account balance issues, and game mechanics across the board; rather than doing what's popular?  Yeah, I think so.

 

Will the aforementioned unhappy players be willing to pitch into the effort, rather than waiting for it to happen, and complaining when the changes made are not the ones they consider to be the bane of the game?  Typically their nature is to wait for others to do things for them, and complain about the results.  But, I'd love to be proven wrong on that one.  Historically speaking though, the odds are against it.

 

 

I'm sure the homecoming team would completely disagree with you. Do you think they are done after the first release, will just ignore bugs, balance issues, and everything else? Do you think they are going to leave things as they are now and just say: 'Screw it. It's good enough. This is our home. The players don't mean anything we'll just ignore everybody, even people with valid suggestions.' I don't think so. Expect some major patches. My attack wasn't aimed towards the awesome team working on this, it was towards YOU, and the ho-humming ridiculous notion that just because they revived a dead game they are going to stop there. That this world is perfect now because said dead game is back. We can all just breathe deep and accept the bugs and brute overlords and leave every other AT in the garbage. You, my good sir, are the epitome of SLOTH. Go ahead and pull out your Porky Pig mask and tell people: 'that's all folks!'

[jubakumbi]

Go ahead and pull out your Porky Pig mask and tell people: 'that's all folks!'

 

You sir, are the epitome of Jerk, if we are listing epitomes.

 

People try and lighten up the conversation and the peer pressure on the HC team and you are the one going to extremes turning that into 'doing nothing', not the other way around.

 

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

[eldriyth]

Go ahead and pull out your Porky Pig mask and tell people: 'that's all folks!'

 

You sir, are the epitome of Jerk, if we are listing epitomes.

 

People try and lighten up the conversation and the peer pressure on the HC team and you are the one going to extremes turning that into 'doing nothing', not the other way around.

 

Check yourself before you wreck yourself.

 

I am a complete asshole not a jerk, and my points are completely valid. I want to see this project succeed and get better, unlike the person I just beat into a corner who is cool if it never gets worked on again.

[Abraxus]

Yup!

 

1. Homecoming = NOT NCSoft.

2. Homecoming = Offers game for no cost, unless you choose to donate.

3. Homecoming = No obligation to anyone.

 

Do they want to improve things?  Of course they do. 

 

Will what they plan to do ever happen as fast as all players want it to?  Of course it won't. 

 

Will those changes affect the exact parts of the game that every player sees as THE huge problem with the game?  No, it absolutely won't.

 

Will those unhappy players stick around and complain about that, rather than have some patience to see how things develop over the course of a year, as opposed to just two months it's been back in existence?  Most likely.

 

Does the Homecoming team, just perhaps, have some insight into the game that regular players are blissfully ignorant of, and that they have to look at things globally, taking into account balance issues, and game mechanics across the board; rather than doing what's popular?  Yeah, I think so.

 

Will the aforementioned unhappy players be willing to pitch into the effort, rather than waiting for it to happen, and complaining when the changes made are not the ones they consider to be the bane of the game?  Typically their nature is to wait for others to do things for them, and complain about the results.  But, I'd love to be proven wrong on that one.  Historically speaking though, the odds are against it.

 

 

I'm sure the homecoming team would completely disagree with you. Do you think they are done after the first release, will just ignore bugs, balance issues, and everything else? Do you think they are going to leave things as they are now and just say: 'Screw it. It's good enough. This is our home. The players don't mean anything we'll just ignore everybody, even people with valid suggestions.' I don't think so. Expect some major patches. My attack wasn't aimed towards the awesome team working on this, it was towards YOU, and the ho-humming ridiculous notion that just because they revived a dead game they are going to stop there. That this world is perfect now because said dead game is back. We can all just breathe deep and accept the bugs and brute overlords and leave every other AT in the garbage. You, my good sir, are the epitome of SLOTH. Go ahead and pull out your Porky Pig mask and tell people: 'that's all folks!'

 

If that's what you got out of everything I have been saying since the very beginning, then you are so wrapped up in your own little bubble of reality, that you read into it what you wanted.  I never said they would not be changing things, or even that some things didn't need to be fixed.  I look forward to everything coming down the road.  I have total faith in their ability to take the game in fun directions. 

 

My whole point is that, while I have faith these things will happen, and am perfectly willing to wait for it to be done the right way.  I am in no rush, because there is no need to be.  There is so much to enjoy about the game, that I don't dwell on the things that might need some changing/tweeking.  I just keep playing, and having fun, in anticipation of the next great thing coming our way.  But, I don't, or condone those that do, resort to complaining about minutiae that waits for fixing, or bang the table for big changes to come my way.  In other words, I'm not in it for the short term.  I'm in it for the long haul, just like I was during the original 8 years I played it when it was live. 

 

So, take your "attacks" no matter whom they are aimed at, and go elsewhere with them.  I have no interest, and refuse to validate any of your entitle perspective on this game.  Feel free to head over to the Cox/g environment where other trolls gather. 

 

Beat ME into a corner?  You too easily impress yourself, and give yourself FAR too much credit sir.