And I thought I was doing well!

[Aeroprism]

Hello beautiful people entrepreneurs!

 

Following @Grouchybeast's suggestion, I came here to discuss lucrative opportunities.  I have been on Homecoming for... two months now, maybe three. I did play a lot on live back in the days but back then, I didn't play with markets much since my last COH days were about when IOs appeared. I generally love the maket game in online games, it's a good indicator of how smart and deep a game can be.  In CoH's case: VERY entertaining.

 

This time however: I have a family of 358 alts to feed and the firm intention of feeding them. Not to mention that my wife plans to play with me soon and she'll have none of that market stuff. Husband needs to provide.

 

Such is life.

 

So, inf.  I started easy, on one of my first characters here: created cheap but popular mid level IOs, 20-30 at a time and put them on sale for a reasonable profit margin. I understood that a lot people preferred to buy instead of going through the creation process.  I made perhaps 5-6 Millions that way, was pretty proud of myself.

 

haha, Look at my Five millions.

 

LOOK AT THEM.

 

Then, I discovered that Merits could become Converters, The joy.  Except at that point, I didn't know how to convert properly and after much effort and very little profit, I gave that up, not understanding what people found in that method.  I also tried those famous Super Packs, sacrificing my hard earned first 10 millions and I got very unlucky, no ATOs, mostly junk so I just gave up.

 

Time passed. 

 

Then someone explained how to properly convert.  Profit!  My main Blaster made some 130 Millions and my (currently shelved) Scrapper another 65.  yay!

 

But I felt another call... an irresistible call.  The dreaded four letter word which starts with F but doesn't end with K.

 

With the help of this awesome community, I settled on a tanker I would use, knowing not at all what to expect.  Turns out I love farming more than I love playing the normal game. I don't know what to think. You tell me. 

 

So now I have a steady income of yellow/orange recipes.  My tanker hit 45 or 46 yesterday, I plan to be 50 tomorrow.  The convertion game is easy but the VAST majority of my rouletted Rares are those that sell around 2 to 2.5 Millions with the VERY occasional LotG but they all pile up in my queue, selling a trickle at a time. I follow the price trends, I don't really undercut. Even if it's not technically impolite because it's common, shared market and not a niche. Whatever, I like my hands clean. For now, 

 

I also decided to give Super Packs another chance and, in some 10-12 purchases, they ALL contained at least one ATO and in 3-4 cases, contained two. Slowly but surely I'm gathering those I need for my Tank, converting/selling the others to make sure I come out at least even. Heck, I'm still in full generic IOs, waiting to be 50 to get sets.  Super Packs also provide me with a somewhat steady stream of merits so, I carry some 600 Converters without having to grind merits at all.

 

Life is good. Profit is there, but slow. I think I'm on top of things.  Look out world, here I come.  Rawr.

 

Then I come here; see people say "I make 300 millions every time I blink." as casually as I wear pants to work.

 

...

 

...

 

HOW.

 

Thanks.  It's good to be home.

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 hour ago, Aeroprism said:

as casually as I wear pants to work.

 

 

Yup, here's your problem.

 

 

[Ura Hero]

2 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

 I follow the price trends, I don't really undercut. Even if it's not technically impolite because it's common, shared market and not a niche. 

 

This is why it trickles.  You have to price at least slightly cheaper than it sells for to move stuff at a decent clip.  While I won't tell you how much I undercut, it is enough that most everything still sells for average price and not so much that I lose much influence if it doesn't.  I try to keep the price where it is and if you undercut properly, you can't tell because most people are "Buy it Nao!"  Trial and error will get you to that sweet spot.

[Aeroprism]

Sounds reasonable.

 

Now all there is to do is give it some time, decide which of my sales won't pass, retract them, soak the 5% and retry using that method.

 

The cost of learning. Acceptable.

Edited November 19, 2020 by Aeroprism

[Yomo Kimyata]

Pricing strategy is an astonishingly large component of success in the AH.  

[Yomo Kimyata]

3 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

 

haha, Look at my Five millions.

 

LOOK AT THEM.

 

Millions are big numbers!  Big!!!

 

[Aeroprism]

I used to work for a specialised bank branch in a Casino here in Canada.  Our main purpose was the exchange of foreign currency, mainly from American tourists. Now, during extremely busy week-ends, I remember closing my cash after my shift and carrying .... sometimes up to 500-600K in hard cash from my station to the bank safe back there.

 

That's a LOT of paper money to carry in your arms but when you've been there long enough, you kind of lose your sensitivity to it. It's not yours so, it's just paper.

 

The people on the other side of the bulletproof glass who were waiting in line.  The look in their eyes as they saw me carry twice their mortgage in my arms (this was in 2000-2001). 

 

Priceless. (pun intended).

[Ura Hero]

Truth.  Once you start working with large sums you kind of get over the "ZOMG soo much moneys" aspect.  Once I started managing products worth millions of dollars a year it got passe really quick.  "It's just money.  Either I have it or I don't."   Life is full of ups and downs.  I've been in both categories many times during my life.  I much prefer having money, but when I don't I know that all I have to do is work hard for a while and I can be back in the better category.

[Saikochoro]

5 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

Look at my Five millions.

 

LOOK AT THEM.

I actually just wrote a small guide in the guides section about various money making methods in which I describe my influence journey. You were happy with your 5 million?

 

I was happy with 120k for about an hours works back in the day 😁

Edited November 19, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Aeroprism]

13 minutes ago, Saikochoro said:

I actually just wrote a small guide in the guides section about various money making methods in which I describe my influence journey. You were happy with your 5 million?

 

I was happy with 120k for about an hours works back in the day 😁

My friend, that 5 millions took 3 long weeks of IO crafting to achieve 🙂

[Saikochoro]

On 11/19/2020 at 8:06 AM, Aeroprism said:

Sounds reasonable.

 

Now all there is to do is give it some time, decide which of my sales won't pass, retract them, soak the 5% and retry using that method.

 

The cost of learning. Acceptable.

I agree with @Ura Heroand @Yomo Kimyatain that pricing strategy is huge for the market.  Undercutting is a common and accepted strategy, but it’s not necessarily a clear cut discount to steal the sale methodology. 
 

The market is will always match the lowest sale with the highest bidder.  However, the only information it gives is the last 5 sales. Say the last 5 show 2m each.  It would be reasonable to think that you could list for 2m.

 

So let’s say you list your IO for 2m.  The next day you see the last 5 sales are between 2m and 2.3m, but yours didn’t sell. So you think “wtf”.  What happened is that I listed that same IO for 1.9m. Because my sale price was less than your I get the sale even if the bidder were to bid enough to cover each of our sale prices. 
 

So, you don’t undercut expecting to get the 1.9m for it. You still actually expect to get 2m+ for it.  However, it is common practice to bid slightly below the last 5 to move your inventory faster.  You don’t want to undercut too much because savvy buyers are willing to wait and may end up filling your lower bid. This could result in overall prices dropping. 
 

There are times that you don’t want to undercut also. Sometimes the last 5 shown were actually bargain purchases and not really indicative of what normally occurs. For example, I will never list a LOTG + rech for under 5.8m regardless of what the last 5 say. Sometimes it may take a day or two to move, but they will eventually sale. So I don’t want to tank the price. 

Also, pay attention to the supply versus demand. If you are the only one selling or there is huge surplus of demand over supply you can be more aggressive in your pricing. It all comes down to playing with the market and getting an idea for the price trends. 
 

Understand that sometimes the the entire market will see a shift in prices. At other times a certain good will have a large price shift due to events/sales. For example, converters might momentarily tank shortly after the nightly Hami raids are completed as everyone liquidates there merits.  Another example is the winter event last year tanking the winter O market. 
 

I’ve actually never been a fan of using the market in games. However, this one is interesting enough that I have done it. Lots to learn. 

Edited November 22, 2020 by Saikochoro

[Saikochoro]

2 minutes ago, Aeroprism said:

My friend, that 5 millions took 3 long weeks of IO crafting to achieve 🙂

Haha sounds about right. This is literally the only game I’ve ever played in which I could be considered wealthy. Even for a lot of my time on homecoming I was pretty poor. Glad you are learning the market though. I’m sure you will surpass the likes of me in no time.

 

I’m a small timer compared to many of the more prominent marketers. 

[Aeroprism]

2 minutes ago, Saikochoro said:

Haha sounds about right. This is literally the only game I’ve ever played in which I could be considered wealthy. Even for a lot of my time on homecoming I was pretty poor. Glad you are learning the market though. I’m sure you will surpass the likes of me in no time.

 

I’m a small timer compared to many of the more prominent marketers. 

 

Honestly I don't want to aim at the inf cap/ceiling.  I just want to be able to easily afford sets when I binge on a new alt.

[Saikochoro]

Just now, Aeroprism said:

 

Honestly I don't want to aim at the inf cap/ceiling.  I just want to be able to easily afford sets when I binge on a new alt.

That’s honestly how I have done it. I did the whole niche marketing thing for a little while and then decided I enjoy doing task forces and events more. So I usually just do task forces and liquidate my merits when I need some funds. This is enough to cover pretty much any build in a reasonable time frame. If I happen to want builds for multiple characters fast I may do a few days of marketing though. 

[tidge]

As far as ZOMG sums...

 

IRL I am responsible for a tiny fraction of a very large budget at a business. The amount I am responsible for is certainly not small, but the annual amount would not be considered 'life changing' (in a non-work budget sense) for even the poorest people without being invested in some specific way. My budget area is essentially in an area with fixed costs, such that those costs will never decline without a radical re-imagining of that area of the business... yet every year I get the same speech about reducing expenses... never mind that every year I've used those fixed cost resources to get more return from them than is expected. I like to think that I'm investing the money I'm entrusted with to do more with it than could be expected by just playing it safe... you know, as in the parable of talents.

 

My perspective is someone limited, but I can recognize that the folks above me responsible for the larger budget don't have the ability to differentiate between good investment over bad (because they'd otherwise ease up on those of us investing their talents wisely) or can't justify to those above them how wisely they are spending the talents they've been entrusted with. I was reminded of this because I *just* got the speech about reducing costs, and if my entire budget line was eliminated it wouldn't cover what I assume is the target goal for the entire department. Let me do some of the radical re-imagining of the entire department and I'll let you know where I think we can get better return for the investment.

[Hardship]

On 11/19/2020 at 12:32 PM, Aeroprism said:

My friend, that 5 millions took 3 long weeks of IO crafting to achieve 🙂

The first 5-10 million is the hardest. After that you have some capital to work with. The adage "It take money (inf) to make money (inf)." is still true here.

 

[Ura Hero]

They always want Hockey Stick growth:

 

 

Even though they are darn well aware that the growth will always be:

 

 

 

 

Same can be said for reducing expenses.

[tidge]

Perhaps the most famous hockey graphic for reducing... something

 

 

[Aeroprism]

Broke the 500 million bar yesterday. Would have been 600 millions (or even more if I had stayed focused on him) but my Farmer-in-training absorbed 100 Million for her mid-career build and of course, when I play her, I'm not marketting.

[Sakai]

3 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

when I play her, I'm not marketting.

In fact this is when the real marketing takes place. 

[Aeroprism]

52 minutes ago, Sakai said:

In fact this is when the real marketing takes place. 

Well, I need to keep putting things for sale if I want the magical magic to happen 🙂

[Sakai]

31 minutes ago, Aeroprism said:

Well, I need to keep putting things for sale if I want the magical magic to happen 🙂

True but the trick is to throw items up for sale and walk away for a while. 

[Aeroprism]

1 hour ago, Sakai said:

True but the trick is to throw items up for sale and walk away for a while. 

Funny you should say that. 

 

I need to validate that I do not indeed have a CoH addiction. Back in 2000, i had a huge problematic addiction to Everquest and then after that, every MMO scared me a little. The WoW years were pretty intense too.  Now, at my ripe old age, I like to claim "Pah! I can stay away as much as the next guy!"  

 

Can I?

 

I have a D&D game this Saturday and I need to focus on preparation and really walk away for a few hours. Tomorrow is another day and my characters will still be there.  

 

If for any reason I log on tonight, even if it "just to check my auctions", I will know there's a problem...

[ILIWAPCT]

On 11/19/2020 at 12:31 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

Pricing strategy is an astonishingly large component of success in the AH.  

Agreed.

I remember reading a while back that it was better to buy then craft your sets.

But it took a while for it to hit me that all those sets I had sitting in my SG bins were costing me money (and time). 

 

A side benefit to reducing my market time is that my market time is now more profitable with less effort.

 

1. My alt army had recipes stored on them. That needed to change. Profitable recipes were sold   Unprofitable recipes went to the recycled bin.

2.  After that it was easy to clear out my bins.

 

Now everything moves very easy and quickly. Low bids are locked in early for the young alts. "High" bids are quickly set for new recipes. The end result is that everything moves quickly and I spend less time in the market and more time playing. 

 

Just like real life, inventory cost you money, so you always want things moving.

[Sir Myshkin]

On 11/25/2020 at 4:39 PM, Aeroprism said:

If for any reason I log on tonight, even if it "just to check my auctions", I will know there's a problem...

I found that for me this sentiment is the exact opposite of addiction, but a realization that I probably need to step away and do something else because I've lost interest in the game and I'm sooner to burn out than enjoy continue playing. In fact I've personally been on sabbatical from the game since roughly the first week of October. The most I've done was to log in on a high-roller and drop some early Winter Pack bids so they'd be filled if a sale took place before I came back (it did). It all started from logging in one night and pulling up the Auction House to check bids and I just went "... Yeah, nope, time to do something else."

 

On the positive side, somewhere in January or February I'll get to log in to a character and go "Look how rich I am!" with all those Winter Packs I bought at discount 😄