Weekly Discussion 79: Mercenaries. Discuss!

[Yomo Kimyata]

In my experience, mercs are the shortest kid in the class.  I can't speak for the personal attacks, since I rarely take them on MMs, but the pets are pretty lackluster.  

 

Something that would help a lot (but would keep them at the bottom of the pack) would be change Serum into a mule power for IO sets, like Necro and Thugs have.

[Normal Thomas]

My first 50 on main was a Mercs/Force Field MM. Its been ages since I've played but knowing the builds I play now and the game that this game is now I wouldn't reroll that character. Two of the biggest things I remember with mercs were long animation times (especially with Full Auto) and long recharge times (pets sitting around doing nothing, LRM Rockets firing off very infrequently). When everything coalesced it was pretty stellar but there were definitely times where there was just dead air and weak DPS. (sometimes I'd even move my pets into close range so they'd just fire off a bunch of brawls)

 

I personally like the idea of keeping the medic as a tier 1 pet but maybe retool him a bit. Like make stimulant a target area effect and then just give him a bunch of throwing grenades. Same ones Arachnos Soldier EATs (frag, venom and... wide area web? maybe) have except he throws them. Although if you're not that interested in keeping him as a first tier pet then you really can't go wrong with @Monos King's idea.

 

As far as aesthetics go I definitely like the idea of modernizing the mercs. Spec Ops look great but the tier 1 soldiers look really old timey. Come to think of it I feel like they should have ski masks and stuff (thinking about those soldiers you fight in Metal Gear...). Also randomize their skin tone and haircuts like the thug pets (yes I said hair cuts.... the ski masks could come from an upgrade). Maybe even gender too.

[Khy-2]

Ho boy. Let me start by saying, I love mercs. I love 'em because I love how they use assault rifles which eject shells so that my Mercs/Storm Mastermind can fly around literally surrounded by a swirling cloud of brass whenever I turn on Hurricane. But man, Mercs are lackluster and you can tell. They need an edge. They need... spiciness! Something enjoyable and interesting and unique to them.

 

So first let's talk the pets themselves. Soldiers are just fine for what they are - the grunts, the low-level nobodies who do the heavy lifting. 2 soldiers and a medic. The medic... well, he just isn't all that great at what he does, is he? I mean yes - he heals other soldiers, but only a small heal and it's on a longish cooldown. And he can apply a stimulant to one pet at random every so often that really is un-noticeable in its effectiveness. 2 paths we can take here - Keep the medic and make him more useful, or ditch the medic for another grunt.

 

IMO I'd rather keep the medic but change two things. For one, replace his normal heal with a PBAoE regen aura. Something smallish, but always on. Second, make Stimulant apply to all of your pets when he applies it instead of just the one. 

 

Second, Specops. I love these guys myself, for the aesthetic. I also like how their powers are varied - gives 'em flavor! Only a couple minor changes here - For one, replace Rifle Butt (Melee, moderate damage, Disorient) with Beanbag (Ranged, minor damage, Disorient). Same power, less damage, but ranged as your pets really shouldn't be in melee 99% of the time. Second, give 'em Toxic web grenades. I've seen this suggested many times and I really think it's a good idea!

 

Commando could use work because his AoE is meh. His cones are super narrow and his rocket's on a ridiculous cooldown. Tweak the cooldowns on all his AoE abilities, widen the cone of Full Auto and Flamethrower... he'd definitely be a bit closer to the killing machine we were promised then.

 

So with the pets down, let's talk the unique ability - Serum. It sucks. There's no real way IMO to fix it and I don't think it needs FIXING, I think it needs complete replacement. So with that in mind a couple ideas for replacements :

 

1) Pineapples. When used, every one of your pets throws a grenade to the targetted area. Soldiers' hand grenades do lethal AoE damage. Specops Pulse Grenades do energy AoE damage, with a -tohit debuff attached. And the commando's thermite grenade is a high-damage fire AoE DoT with a -res effect. The more pets you have summoned and alive, the better the power gets!

 

2) Artillery Barrage. Calls in an off-map artillery strike that fires down in a clustered area around wherever you're targetting. Not tied directly to your pets, but still matches the army/soldier theme.

 

3) Arms Deal. Equips your soldiers with high-tech weapons for a short time (60 seconds), with a long cooldown (360 Seconds). All pets gain a 30% boost in damage, your medic's regen aura is boosted during this time, and each pet applies a special effect to enemies while the power is active (Soldiers get Superheated Ammo which applies a minor fire DoT to all attacks, Specops get Cryo Ammo which apply a slow and -regen effect to all attacks, and your Commando gets Explosive Ammo which causes all his attacks to do bonus AoE damage). Great for burn phases on bosses, great for clearing out crowds, on a decently long timer but that's because it's WORTH it when you pop that power.

 

In non-balance-related options, I'd like to see the specops replaced with female soldiers instead of male (I'd say all soldiers have a chance to spawn female but that might mess with MM's who like to assign names to pets). I also think that when customizing the Mastermind's weapon, that customization should apply to Soldier and Commando weapons as well (If possible, not sure if the engine can handle that) since I think full customization for all soldiers would be incredibly hard to program.

[Virtual Green]

I love Mercs in theory, but as many others have pointed out, they are severely lacking in actual gameplay capacity.

 

My solution would just be to make Mercs more like PPD mobs (especially the "Rogue" version encountered in Roy Cooling's SA), in terms of powers. Give Ghost abilities to Spec Ops. Make one of the Soldiers a mercenary version of the Equalizer, with Glue Grenade and an Acid Mortar. Give some explosives to the Commando.

 

And of course, buff Serum, or overhaul it completely !

[SurgingStrikes29]

I'll give my opinion on the Medic since I think he is the weakest link in Mercs that is holding the set back.

 

 

Increase the range of SMG Burst and SMG Heavy Burst from 70ft to 80ft. Ever wonder why the Merc dies so much? He has a shorter range on his attacks compared to the rest of the Soldiers! If anything, he should have an even longer range to encourage him to stay away from the enemies.

 

Swap Frag Grenade with Venom Grenade. Frag Grenade isn't very strong and the Knockback is annoying. Venom Grenade doesn't need to do a lot of damage, the -res will MORE than make up for that. As long as it doesn't have a super long cooldown (60 seconds or less) it will help Mercs deal with their mostly Lethal damage issue.

 

Change Stimulate to a group buff. The Medical pool's Stimulate was so bad, they buffed it into Injection and it STILL isn't worth taking. So you can image how useful the Medic's Stimulate is. At best, the Medic can keep 3 pets (but not himself) buffed with Stimulate. But it is unreliable since he buffs randomly. Furthermore, he spends all his time buffing which can be really annoying. The power is very niche. It can be great if you are dealing with status effect enemies but it is pointless if you are not. As such, I recommend changing this to a PBAOE group buff. It could still be status protection but I would recommend it have something that is more useful in general such as +def or +dam. Beast Mastery Wolves and Lions have powers that act like this. Use them as a basis.

 

Add a group healing ability. There are a few opinion here. A PBAOE heal like Healing Aura could work but that might clash against the "non-supernatural" theme of Mercs. Triage Beacon fits the theme but the healing is low, the beacon is stationary, the cooldown is long, and the AI is very, very dumb. So I would skip this one. My pick is a +Regen aura similar to Suppress Pain that is always on the same way that Demons/ Ember Shield works. This way, the medic is constantly providing support to the Mercs (and the MM, the aura affects them too) without needing to spam their heal. You could also attach other buffs to the aura too if you want to make it stronger too like +Recovery or +Recharge.

 

 

Mercs is the worst MM primary by a long shot and I look forward to the day when it becomes better. I hope this helps.

[Snarky]

can we customize them?  because if i could make a crew with silly matching outfits like the crews from batman, mystery men, or venture brothers i would run them in a heartbeat.  right now the only mastermind i can conceive of using them is a caricature of the mascot from "The General" insurance co

[Galaxy Brain]

On 12/1/2020 at 8:10 PM, Khy-2 said:

1) Pineapples. When used, every one of your pets throws a grenade to the targetted area. Soldiers' hand grenades do lethal AoE damage. Specops Pulse Grenades do energy AoE damage, with a -tohit debuff attached. And the commando's thermite grenade is a high-damage fire AoE DoT with a -res effect. The more pets you have summoned and alive, the better the power gets!

I like this idea a lot, similar to Ninja's Smoke Flash, that works by actually granting a (temp) power to the ninjas to use and activate their buff. Doing the same with the mercs to command them to launch grenades would be fun.

[BZRKR]

On 12/1/2020 at 7:10 PM, Khy-2 said:

1) Pineapples. When used, every one of your pets throws a grenade to the targetted area. Soldiers' hand grenades do lethal AoE damage. Specops Pulse Grenades do energy AoE damage, with a -tohit debuff attached. And the commando's thermite grenade is a high-damage fire AoE DoT with a -res effect. The more pets you have summoned and alive, the better the power gets!

 

On 12/2/2020 at 10:10 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

I like this idea a lot, similar to Ninja's Smoke Flash, that works by actually granting a (temp) power to the ninjas to use and activate their buff. Doing the same with the mercs to command them to launch grenades would be fun.

I like it too, as it would also be an elegant way to get all of the Mercs into throwing range of a target. And the image of every Merc stopping what they are doing and making a coordinated attack just screams "trained and disciplined combatants".

[Alchemystic]

Replacing Serum with something more beneficial might be good, maybe something that acts as a temporary upgrade to a target that changes their gear loadout.

sorta how Equip/Upgrade works, but on a temporary basis. their abilities will be switched out for new ones depending on the level of their upgrades, and will be active for roughly 90 seconds before the effects wear off and they return back to their normal loadouts again. 

 

 - Specialist Gear: Ranged, Specialize Henchmen

You grant access to specialised gear to a mercenary of your choice. While under the effects, your mercenary's gear will change depending on which henchman you target. This upgrade is temporary, and after a while their specialist gear will no longer be of use and they will return to their original loadout.

 

 - Soldier: A soldier will receive a riot shield and a heavy pistol, allowing him more protective abilities that benefit him and his allies.

Standard:  (Deflection)  (Battle Agility)  (Pistol)

Equipped:  (Active Defense)  (Heavy Pistol)  (Wild Shot)

Upgraded:  (Phalanx Fighting)  (Grant Cover)  (Autopistol)

 

 

 - Medic: A medic will be given an enhanced suite of medical equipment that boosts his healing effectiveness.

Standard:  (MedKit)  (Tranq Dart)  (Toxic Web Grenade)

Equipped:  (Experimental Injection)  (Stimulant)  (Toxic Dart)

Upgraded:  (Field Medic)  (Triage Beacon)  (Sleep Grenade)

 

 

 - Spec-Ops: A spec ops soldier will gain access to advanced stealth gear that increases his effectiveness.

Standard:  (SCAR Burst)  (SCAR Heavy Burst)  (Combat Knife)

Equipped:   (Targeting Drone)  (Smoke Grenade)  (Surveillance)

Upgraded:  (Cloaking Device)  (SCAR Snipe)  (Assassin's Knife) 

 

 

 - Commando: A Commando gains a demolitions kit that enhances his destructive capabilities. 

Standard:  (M30 Grenade)  (Incinerator)  (Buckshot)

Equipped:  (Trip Mine)   (Ignite)  (Time Bomb)

Upgraded:   (LRM Rocket)  (Flamethrower)  (Minelayer)

 

(also side tangent, give all mercs Body Armor when Equipped, and buff it when they're Upgraded)

 

 

Edited December 5, 2020 by Tyrannical

[Troo]

Customizable minions. (costumes)

[Monos King]

19 hours ago, Tyrannical said:

sorta how Equip/Upgrade works, but on a temporary basis. their abilities will be switched out for new ones depending on the level of their upgrades, and will be active for roughly 90 seconds before the effects wear off and they return back to their normal loadouts again. 

I had that idea too previously. Mine was a Serum change that gave the henchmen additional super strength and heavy ammunition powers for a short time. I saw a throw grenade idea earlier as well. I think that all the temp upgrade type things are pretty cool.

Edited December 5, 2020 by Monos King

[CrudeVileTerror]

I do like a lot of the energy people are bringing in the hopes of improving Mercenaries, while still maintaining their theme and purpose.

Though some of the bigger ideas may be a little overkill as fixes, especially with the design and testing iterations necessary.  Maybe these bigger ideas could be reserved for entirely new Sets?  Goodness knows that we can -always- use new Sets!

[Galaxy Brain]

6 hours ago, CrudeVileTerror said:

I do like a lot of the energy people are bringing in the hopes of improving Mercenaries, while still maintaining their theme and purpose.

Though some of the bigger ideas may be a little overkill as fixes, especially with the design and testing iterations necessary.  Maybe these bigger ideas could be reserved for entirely new Sets?  Goodness knows that we can -always- use new Sets!

A fixed mercs would be a new set 😄

[gameboy1234]

On 11/29/2020 at 4:31 AM, Take One said:

I just like to add that I think the aesthetics of the t1 soldiers is silly. They look like WW2 Marines about to storm Normandy, and not like modern soldiers at all. Ideally they should be unique models like thugs, each with some individuality to them.

This is my main complaint, even back on live.  They should look more like an actual villainous mastermind's henchmen or some pineapple dictator's thugs rather WW2 soldiers.  It's just a bit incongruous to the whole milieu.

 

Oh that and serum.  Maybe boost damage output of the other T1 by a bit and turn the Medic into a buff bot.  Allowing him to heal at range (tranq gun?) would be a big help.